Hope the new year sees many more great events in PS group... wishing good luck to all the new plans that we have ahead....
Though I wish a happy new year, I am not really happy, after talking with my friend in Chennai yesterday night, when I called him to wish for the new year. The happenings in TN disturbed me....
This mail might bring in a lot criticism and opposition, and even the moderators might be requested to delete this posting......
I am also disturbed that the number of mails wishing for the new year is only 2 or 3 compared to the previous years...Hope people got me where I am coming to....
THough i read sometime back that the Govt. is planning to celebrate Thai 1 as Tamil New yaer and not chittirai 1, i didnt think it will be of such magnitude. Its ATROCIOUS to intervene in religious belief just to satisfy and get vote from a few. I was shocked to hear from my friend that all tv channels say 'chitirai tirunal vazhthukkal' (as did one of our member) and not puthandu vazhtukkal..
I am shocked to see there is no protest to this move. If people say that this group is not the place to discuss this...I beg to differ. This is certainly in our groups purview. When we say we are trying to protect our culture and history, is this not a big hit to our culture?
'Nenju porukudhillaye..intha nilai ketta manitharai ninaithu vittaal'..beautiful words of Bharathi... and the nilai ketta manitar includes me who dont have the back bone to fight against this so called pseudo secularism in our country. I talked with my friend around 1.30 in the night (my time) and i could not sleep further. Wondering where the country is heading..
Forget the external world, i was more surprised to see not even a mention of this in our group, and even more surprised not to see anyone wishing on the new year. If tanjai periya koil is being destroyed in the name of renovation, we protest saying that its a hit for our culture..then is this not a hit for our culture?
who gave these people such authority to change religious things as they wish. Will these people dare to say Jan 1 is western new year and since it cam eout of India we should not follow that calendar?
Ravi,
I agree with each and every word of your thoughts on Hindu mythology. I used to think in those lines, may be not in the depth as you have written. I feel these are also mini pralaya's where the dharma is being disturbed.
If Supreme court gives a ruling passing the OBC quota with the caveat of creamy layer, our so called reformists come to the rescue saying they will revisit the criteria for creamy layer..
For those people who support these pseudo seculars in the state and the country, say that without these people their community could not have improved, I like to quote Swami Chinmayananda,
'The incapable and the inefficient alone complain that they could have done better, if the situations were different'.
How long these atrocities can go on? How long these people will be bashing the hindu and their sentiments? Let the govt observe thai 1 as new year, but who the hell are they to say that panchangam should not be read in the temples on cithirai 1?
Shame on us who cant even protest in this small group, if not on the streets.
Recently we were discussing about what is controversy and what should be written in this group. As rightly pointed out by Arun (is that Arun? ) we try to brush things under the carpet saying that its controversial and never talk about it and gain and spread knowledge about it. When the whole world accepts that the aryan invasion theory is a myth, we still stick to it because talking about it going to create controversy.
And we say that this group likes to bring out true history and preserve culture, but dont spell a word when the culture is torn to pieces.
Moderators, you are free to delete this post, because from others perspective, this mail is surely not related this group.
God save this country from these butchers of Hinduism...
Satish, your passion is well placed. I also hear that temples are not allowed to read 'panchangam' and are being forced to abide by english new year. I am very much shocked myself. But at this time I believe there are more things to be shocked. The food crisis is #1 on the list. Farmers are committing suicide more than ever. No vegetable is less than 40 Rs per kg and riots are happening all over the world.
As a humanist first and foremost I prefer to pay heed to this more than what the stupid DMK government does. Our religion and tradition has survived years of assault and will survive this also.
I also didn't know this change, and as you rightly pointed out, this is ridiculous and atrocious to poke into people's beliefs by force. > 'Nenju porukudhillaye..intha nilai ketta manitharai ninaithu vittaal'..beautiful words of > Bharathi... and the nilai ketta manitar includes me who dont have the back bone to fight http://youtube.com/watch?v=T3gHFvTjp_g
You can also quote another Bharathi's song. "Nenjil Uramum indri, Nermai thiramum indri, Vanjanai solvaradi kiliyae, vai sollil veeraradi...", check the video below and the first dialogue still holds good. http://youtube.com/watch?v=e3rIvlUM2V0
Satish, no worries, people may have not protested as possibly they think the govt may not last for long :-) Other option is many are busy with their lives and they do not feel it necessary to deem tamil new year as a critical aspect of life. Ofcourse, Pongal - Navarathiri - Diwali have bigger 'ratings' than Tamil new year in many of our younger generation atleast in the major cities.
We are moving towards a mini pralayam ofcourse (current global financial crisis is a pralyam ofcourse) - I have always wondered how India manages her grass root credit and mortgage, just going by pay slip etc is something I fail to understand. In US we have a credit rating history etc and yet we are in deep crisis now. I have a feeling we are in some serious difficult times ahead - a pralayam ofcourse.
Quality man power is also declining, money without knowledge seems to be the run of hour now. Enga poy mudiyumo...Eswaran thaan 'reset' pannanum....
The 2 or 3 wishes which i mentioned includes those 2 :) But still till last year we had floods of wishes,and even for Jan 1 we do get flooded.
Changing Tamil new year from chitirai 1 to thai 1 is ofcourse political, but forcing not to read panchangam in temples on chitirai 1 - what do you want to call it? And if I am not wrong, panchangam is prepared and read by brahmins in most of the temples (or all?). I have never witnessed it so I am not sure who reads it or what they read. But still its a attack on the hindu beliefs. Will Karunanidhi dare to do this with other religions? Will he dare to say that in TN only thai 1 should be observed as new year and hence there should be no prayers in the church on 1st Jan?
Bharathi is a genius.. again a poor soul who was neglected by the govts. for the simple reason that he was a brahmin by birth. Again for people who say Bharathi has been respected by all and has been given the due respect, I beg to differ, no Dravida katchi quotes him and they quote only Bharathidasan, no govt. officials garland him on his birth or death anniversay.
I used to wonder, If he had sung so broken hearted in those days, what would have he sung if he is alive today? Probably he would have took up arms? He was a revolutionist in his own sense for his period.
India with her rich heritage - Vedas - shanmathams - with such a strong foundation and where we are today... its really a sad plight. We all have veedu vasal but what ever happened to the 'perinba peruveedu' that we are really supposed to go after :-)
more importantly, porul illaruku ivulagam ? but the Arul is how it should end.
Anyway, Barathi wrote a precision song optimal for our country in today's life ,I believe the great poet foresaw the future generations and wrote the lines 'Nallathor veenai (Bharatam) seithe athai nalam keda puzhuthiyil (Today's bharatham) erivatundo...then... he goes on to say, Solladi abirami, ennai sudar migum arivudan padaithu vittai, vallamai thaarayo intha maanilam payanura vazhvatharke (such songs are his gift to us so we can get back to establishing that path of life).
Solladi Abirami is the first line of the Abhirami Andhadhi based song penned by Kannadasan for movie Adi Parasakthi, and sung with great passion by TMS for SV Subbiah.
Ravi, in some ways we are far from ideal, but want to say one thing though - seeking 'arul' is a personal path for each person. It is possible if you are in India, in Iceland, Australia or anywhere in the world. Bharati wrote many of his poems in dark cell rooms, he didn't have any ideal outside circumstance either.
If we seek 'perinbam' as individuals through us that inbam will spread all over the world .Yaam petra inbam peruga iv vaiyyagam, that is all it is.
//I am shocked to see there is no protest to this move. If people say that this group is not the place to discuss this...I beg to differ. This is certainly in our groups purview. When we say we are trying to protect our culture and history, is this not a big hit to our culture?//
I agree with you Satish. There should have been some protests. But nothing. Why? Tamilian's backbone is already broken.
When our temple sculptures were painted with oil paints and made our goddess look like a bar girl with mini skirt, we did not protest.
When pillaiyaar was given AK47 and military dress during vinayakar chadhurthi, our blood did not boil.
When temples were destroyed and bathroom tiles were fixed inside the sanctum in the name of renovation, our nenju poruththadhu.
When governments murdered their citizens in the name of religion, we didnt have guts to raise the voice.
When government intervened in the culture of siru dheyva vazhipaadu, we least bothered about that.
When mutts involved in murder cases, we convinced ourselves as political tit-for-tat.
When school students were forced to sing saraswati vandhanam, we tried to justify that saraswati is common to everyone.
Then, how can you expect such boneless creatures to react only for this? Just because we are programmed to attribute bad things to DMK and find faults only in Dravidian parties?
you missed out cinema - divnie hymns remixed to become cheap numbers. infact i was shocked to see a recent number portraying the hero and heroine dressed as krishna n radha etc etc. compare this to the days of yore - NTR as krishnar - so much grace and character..
had this kind of degrading even attemped to any other religion, the culprits behind would be facing a fatwa and running for their lives. not that i am for that radical moves, but certain things have a dignity and sanctity associated with it. which is shockingly mocked by these and the society by turning a blind eye to them sets a precedent...
When the TN Government announced that the tamil New Year begins from Tamil month " Thai first " (which announcement is already 3 month old) Where is the question of protesting that now?
When Media - particulary TV Channels with Mass viewership also used " Chithirai pirappu " and things like that we can also record our views here and be done with it ...
Since the topic is discussed my view is :
SARVAJITH was last Tamil New Year ..
IN this word SARVA is NOT TAMIL DICTION. JITH too.
This Year is SARVA DHARI ... Again same thing.
When did this 60 year NAMING OF TAMIL YEARS occur ? who did ? when commenced ? How commended from Chithirai ?
Why TN Government is telling this to be computed from " Thai" ?
With these concrete points made available for discussion we can put forward our views .. instead of mentioning specific names / parties / races.
Very good point regarding movie remixes. In telugu the movie Ramadasu recently starred Suman as Sri Rama. Suman was a pornographic movie actor and was arrested some time ago for soliciting college girls to make porn movies. I agree actors cannot live up to their images but while portraying godly images some respect should be there.
The late NTR not only was graceful as an actor, he abstained taking meat and alcohol out of deference to the role. His own son Balakrishna said he took alcohol and cannot portray Sri Rama therefore.
I am pretty much off line reader for a long time. Really lot of good stuffs made me to active here . (fullstop about me )
Can any one say , Why do we celebrate tamil new year , what is a history behind it , what is a significant incident made us to start the year on this month on this day(sithirai 1). Really our govt decision made me think in this direction. Just give a views ....
The question is not just changing the new year from chitirai 1 to thai 1. I too read about it a few months back. These are obvious political stunts and people are not bothered about it. Even now, the whole state will be celebrating the new year only on chitirai 1 and not on thai 1.
But I got wild when I heard that the panchangam reading was banned in the temples. This is what I called atrocious.
Reposting my question - 'if the govt. is so strong in celebrating only thai 1 as new year and can ban panchangam reading in temples on chitirai 1, can the pass an order to stop the new prayers in the churches on Jan 1?'
My protest was only for the religious intervention of the state when they call themselves secular. Secular actually means govt. keeping away from religion and not treating all religion equal. Forget equal treatment, in India seulcar alwasy means pro-minority...
Yes, our backbone has been broken long ago and only god can save this country.
Remembering Tirumoolars word - 'iruttai iruttaki azhippan'. He will make darkness more darker before removing it.
Dear SPS, There were lot protests on this Government move. There are evidences from sangam litrature for Chiththirai as year beginning. But I could not find a single historical evidence for Thai being the year beginning.
r Paambu panjangam? Or Govt has any other agency to tell us which day the Thai month begins?
You are right SPS. Then the govt. should have tried to study the origin of the names rather than changing the new year over night.
now will they have a new set of names for each year starting with Thai 1? Yes may be, they will name each year after each caste leader for the vote bank.
Yes. Karunanidhi may be a well versed in tamil, but a scholar should use his brains for the benefit of the masses and not to hurt the masses or take them for a ride. This attitude differentiates Hitler from Gandhi.
I also like to know more on this move, was there any scientific/literary study done to make this change of Thai 1 as the tamil new year? As you say that Karunanidhi is the only living Tamil scholar, did he give any explanation to this move? This is not a sarcastic question, but a genuine one to know on what basis the move was brought forward.
I am sorry, I don't think I worded my post very well. I didn't mean anything religious particularly, I meant more of commitment/respect/dedication the profession which is missing in today's generation (as an actor example - NTR brought a high degree of those values, he lived his roles while he acted them (he was a prolific meat eater otherwise :)) which was one of the reasons for his success.
I am all for the freedom of opinion as SPS pointed out. LR Eswari's Karpoora Nayigiye used to be sung with great gusto by the maids in my family for Navarathri. My mother was one of those rare people who invited the servant women for 'thamboolam' in the conservative Mylapore neighborhood. Her only condition was that they should sing. Muniamma and her sisters used to sing 'karpoora nayikiye' with great fervor, sometimes we would even join in.
God is not limited by our boudaries of religion/caste or even good or bad habits as we see them.
> > Then, how can you expect such boneless creatures to react only for > this? Just because we are programmed to attribute bad things to DMK > and find faults only in Dravidian parties? >
Absolutely, I can only cry and again have to quote only Bharathi -
On the East coast (TN), Chidambaram (cosmic dancer), Seerkazhi (birth place of Thirugnana Samandar / Thirumangai Aazhwar) - Thiruvengadu (aadhi chidambaram ) - Thirukkadayur ( Kaalasamharan / Abhirampi battar )- Tarangampadi @ Tranqubar (first European migration - Dutch / Dilapidated Seashore temple Maasilamaneeswarar) - Thirunallaru (Saneeswaran) - Sikkal (Murugan - Singaravelan) - Nagaptnam ( One of Saaptha (7) vidangars - Neelayadakshi) - Vedharanyam @ Thirumaraikkadu ( Eastern Door opened / closed by Sambandar / Appar hymns- recall movie Thiruvartchelvar) are located.
In this stretch,
Tarangampadi @ Tranqubar Church is acknowledeably ancient one.. Nagai Darga is ancient one.. Velankanni Madha Church is ancient one...
Not only me - many Hindus - while travelling in this stretch, offer prayers (Candles /naatuchakarai etc) in these places of worship too.
Citizens of other Faith living in these areas - cutting across Religeous frontiers - mix freely and truly adopt Secularism !!
Ysterday I was surprised to see a Joseph (my Car driver from Kottayam) lisening and murmoring Carnatic music. when asked he said seveal of his Christian friends are learning and singing Carnatic music (like Dr. Jesudas !!)
Bharathi never seizes to amaze us. He has song for every situation. Let it be love, bakthi, freedom struggle, even post freedom - a real visionary
'padagam seibavarai kandal, nee bayam kollalagathu pappa.. modhi methithu vidu pappa, avar mugathil umizhnthu vidu pappa...'
If we do that, we will not be alive to swollow the next umizh... :)
while watching the song in the link you provided, I saw another song side by..
'endru thaniyum intha sudandhira dagam'
Today we need a second freedom from enemies within...corruption, caste based politics, indiscipline etc.
Again, thinking of the situation, when the whole world has accepted that the aryan invasion theory is a myth and there are not seperate race as Aryans, we dont change ourselves and still stick to it.
But when some one says that Thai 1 is the tamil new year and not chitirai 1, immediately the change is propsed.
If this interest is shown in reveling the true history of India, we would have gone far.
Basically its a matter of convinience for the politicians rather than fact or public interest.
> > MALLAI SHORE TEMPLE (photo) is Prominent behind another News Reader. > Hi sir,
Not sure we discussed this before, but of all the temples/gopurams/monuments photographed - i think the shore temple has a uniqueness about it - its got a peculiar charm - whether shot in stilloutte or in light - despite it being worn down, its got a certain asthetics to it. from any angle, from any side - in any light, its got a certain mesmerising charm. the twin irregular towers seem to have some divine symmetry that is pleasing to our eyes
Hi sps its common sense to open a new year with spring season. why open it during winter.
the english new year too at some point of time was in april but with adoption of the gregorian calender(??) changed. that has something to do with the april fools day i have read.
1 January: The first official day of the year in the Gregorian calendar used by most countries. 14th jan; the orthodox churches of Georgia, Jerusalem, Russia, Macedonia and Serbia The Chinese, tibetian, vietnamese, New Year, can fall anytime between 21 January and 21 February
New Year's Day in the Sikh Nanakshahi calendar ( a new contreversial calender introduced by spgc)is on March 14. The Iranian / Zoroastrian New Year, called Norouz, falls on 20 March. In the Bahá'í calendar, the new year occurs on the vernal equinox on 21 March, and is called Naw-Rúz.
sindi telugu, kannada new years in march april
The Punjabi (Sikh) new year Vaisakhi is celebrated on 13 April and celebrates the harvest. The Nepali new year usually falls between 12 and 15 April. The Thai and Lao New Year are celebrated from 13 April to 15 April by splashing water. The Cambodian New Year are celebrated from 13 April to 15 April.
The Bengali New Year The Sinhalese New Year malayaali Vishu are all on these days. marwaris and gujarathis may have anew year around diwali
Hi there is no rural hindu wedding without " vaaraayo tholi vaaraayo" there is no mariamman festival without "karpoora naayakiye kanakavalli" both sung by a christian singer called lourde rajeshwari. funny are the ways of lord.or did he keep more than fun to all these things????
and by the way malathi suman has acted as lord venkateshwara in nagarjuna starred "annamayya"
venketesh
> > > > > > > > > > " ...KARPURA NAAYAGIYE KANAGA VALLI ........ > > > > > KAALI, MAGAMAYI, KARUMARIYAMMA .. " > > > > > > > > > > is a highly POPULAR devotional Song by LR Eswari
Yes Venkat, am aware of that. I don't believe anyone can come close to NTR as far as playing divine roles, judging by the popularity of these actors that is self evident.
I don't have anything against anyone's religion/personal life/habits including meat eating as far as their profession goes, meaning the God I believe atleast is unbiased on those factors. But am not so sure about criminials, this guy kidnapped and made porn movies with many innocent college girls, as public we cannot really do anything about the case personally - but as I told several of my telugu friends, I would not watch his movies atleast not as him playing Sri Rama.
Your questions are thought provoking. I tried searching on the net (I really envied Vijay, how he gets accurate data? I am very poor in searching). The points I could gather were:
1. In 1921 around 500 scholars under the lead of Maraimalai adigalar, met at Pachaiyappan college and came to the conclusion that Thai 1 should be the tamil new year. 2. Tiruvlluvar was born 31 years before christ and hence the Tiruvalluvar andu was taken as the official Tamil Year.
Except this I couldnt gather much.
We have discussed in length about deducing historical events. But these points dont fit in that realm.
Lot of open ended questions :
1. who were those 500 scholars? 2. what were the facts based on which they concluded that Thai 1 is the tamil new year? 3. How come they know that Tiruvalluvar was born 31 years before christ? Even the birth year of christ is not yet confirmed, there is no evident proof for the year of his birth. some say 1 AD commenced 4 years after Christ was born, so and so forth. And also no one knows when Tiruvalluvar lived and how come they are sure that he was born 31 years before Christ?
As Venkatesh rightly pointed out, most of the new years start during the spring. If i am correct, the Indira vizha of sangam literature is a spring festival and should be around this period. Probably the new year was celebrated as Indira vizha. Human minds think alike and the new year falling between March and April around the world (i think most)is a proof for this.
One thing I am happy about is - I started the thread with the feeling that no one dared to wish puthandu vazhtu and every one changed to chitirai tirunal vazhthu. But now this thread with the subject line repeatedly say 'Iniya puthandu vazhthukkal'.No one changed the subject line :)
Venkat, Its news to me that LR Eswari is Lourde Rajeswari. How come you know so much trivia? Surprising, as you say the stroke of the lord.
I searched the net and found some content which discuss the Tamil Calender in detail and some of them give a scientific explanation why it should be Jan 14. See:
Somebody mentions that these Tamil names are common in Malaysian Calenders. Some also try to explain in scientific terms why the Tamil months have different number of days.
Needs more research to assert the facts! Somebody good in astronomy can establish the facts with proper mathematics and observational data.
I have a question on these birth dates of Indian people, have we not gone by masam + natchtram than any western date ? was Jesus birth calculated by Roman calendar how was that adjusted against the Indian calendar...confusing.
the first link you gave, I also came across this, but that article speaks about the logic of having April 14th as the new year and not Jan 14th. Only the last lines says that some people claim Thai 1 as new year and nothing more than that. Am I missing something?
I am not sure about the Tamil names of the months, as these do not sound too Sanskritic. But as SPS pointed, the year names are surely Sanskrit.
Again, the question is not yet answered (and I cannot accept your words that the link you provided gives scientific explanation for Jan14 as Tamil new year) - What is the basis for saying Jan 14 is the Tamil New year?
SPs, interesting post on Kalignar. When you find time could you really write more on his literary accomplishments.
I don't have any political affiliations one way or the other myself but I have seen this deep rooted, long standing rivalry between 'upper castes' and 'others' in TN that takes form in many ways.
enough respect( or no respect). That is very true and strongly a caste issue. Rajaji is almost a forgotten almost everyone who has or had DK affiliations are hated with a vengeance among upper castes, regardless of their individual contribution. I was at a family reunion once and pointed out Periyaar's contribution to women's rights, I was lucky put it mildly to escape alive. Singers like MSS take great efforts to blend with brahmin society, MSS even changed her pure tamil madurai diction to a brahmin diction prounoucing all 'sa' as 'sha' and so on.
Casteism marches on in one form or the other. Unless we learn to recognize every human being as human without their background prejudice we will never make progress as a country.
> Someone wrote about Bharati not getting > enough respect( or no respect). That is > very true and strongly a caste issue.
> no Dravida katchi quotes him and they > quote only Bharathidasan,
Dravidian parties not quoting Bharathi is not at all true. I can show lot of examples. Even many writers who support dravidian movements wrote many books on Bharathi. Have you ever read Kalaignar's kavithai written during Anna's funeral? If not, go to Anna arivalayam and see that poem kept in the museum. You can see the reference to Bharathi in that. The best example is Kalaignar's Paraasakthi. The *SAME* song which you have quoted is there. People criticising Bharathi just because of his cast is very minimal, which happens for every other leader.
Its true that Caste played with Bharathi. But it was during his time. He was ill-treated by his own caste people. Things are much better and he is well recognised now. His songs made popularised, His birthday celebrated, A university in his name, A memorial house, Frequently remembered by people and scholars and what not? Can you list what else could have been done in Bharathi's case which other leaders are enjoying? Instead of just telling not there, not there, please tell what should have been done.
> Today we need a second freedom from > enemies within...corruption , caste > based politics, indiscipline etc.
Correct. Kindly include religion based politics too.
> Again, thinking of the situation, when > the whole world has accepted > that the aryan invasion theory is a > myth and there are not seperate > race as Aryans, we dont change > ourselves and still stick to it.
This is called as Sandhula sindhu paadaradhu!!! Which world accepted the invasion theory, satish? The world in Mambalam, Mylapore, Nanganallur and Madippakkam? Come on, there is something beyond that!!!
> Its ATROCIOUS to intervene in religious > belief just to satisfy and get vote from a few.
I couldnt understand how will it get vote and who will vote for this change?
> Primarily I suggest one should read > and understand more about Arignar > Anna, Periyar and Kalignar - before > uttering anything negative.... > I will stop here.
Perfect SPS!!! Well said. Periyar, Anna and Kalaignar read Ramayana and other epics before they criticise. But these Dravidian movement bashers fail to do that.
I have a feeling every conversation leads o the aryan dravidian divide.
first my opinion on bharathi. i dont think he was mistreated because he was a bramhin.
if that was the case his memories would have been erased in favour of the dravidian poets. i dont even know how some of these dravidian poets looked like. bharathi's memories have been well nurtured. i think instead of discussing about bharathi's caste( which he himself wouldnt have liked) we have so many factors in his writings and life to discuss.the recent one is something our group hasnt even touched i feel sorry to say.) the discovery of bharathi's letters to 'the hindu' in english. vijay, can you post some details on that from the hindu.
i hope members will keep away from these topics that hinder a smooth flow. its not that we shouldnt discuss them but when we do sudeenly there is a lot of anger and for a week or so nobody writes.