iniya puthandu vazhthukkal
  • anaivarukkum iniya puthandu vazhthukkal.......

    Hope the new year sees many more great events in PS group... wishing good luck to all the
    new plans that we have ahead....

    Though I wish a happy new year, I am not really happy, after talking with my friend in
    Chennai yesterday night, when I called him to wish for the new year. The happenings in
    TN disturbed me....

    This mail might bring in a lot criticism and opposition, and even the moderators might be
    requested to delete this posting......

    I am also disturbed that the number of mails wishing for the new year is only 2 or 3
    compared to the previous years...Hope people got me where I am coming to....

    THough i read sometime back that the Govt. is planning to celebrate Thai 1 as Tamil New
    yaer and not chittirai 1, i didnt think it will be of such magnitude. Its ATROCIOUS to
    intervene in religious belief just to satisfy and get vote from a few. I was shocked to hear
    from my friend that all tv channels say 'chitirai tirunal vazhthukkal' (as did one of our
    member) and not puthandu vazhtukkal..

    I am shocked to see there is no protest to this move. If people say that this group is not
    the place to discuss this...I beg to differ. This is certainly in our groups purview. When we
    say we are trying to protect our culture and history, is this not a big hit to our culture?

    'Nenju porukudhillaye..intha nilai ketta manitharai ninaithu vittaal'..beautiful words of
    Bharathi... and the nilai ketta manitar includes me who dont have the back bone to fight
    against this so called pseudo secularism in our country. I talked with my friend around
    1.30 in the night (my time) and i could not sleep further. Wondering where the country is

    Forget the external world, i was more surprised to see not even a mention of this in our
    group, and even more surprised not to see anyone wishing on the new year. If tanjai periya
    koil is being destroyed in the name of renovation, we protest saying that its a hit for our
    culture..then is this not a hit for our culture?

    who gave these people such authority to change religious things as they wish. Will these
    people dare to say Jan 1 is western new year and since it cam eout of India we should not
    follow that calendar?


    I agree with each and every word of your thoughts on Hindu mythology. I used to think in
    those lines, may be not in the depth as you have written. I feel these are also mini
    pralaya's where the dharma is being disturbed.

    If Supreme court gives a ruling passing the OBC quota with the caveat of creamy layer, our
    so called reformists come to the rescue saying they will revisit the criteria for creamy

    For those people who support these pseudo seculars in the state and the country, say that
    without these people their community could not have improved, I like to quote Swami

    'The incapable and the inefficient alone complain that they could have done better, if the
    situations were different'.

    How long these atrocities can go on? How long these people will be bashing the hindu and
    their sentiments? Let the govt observe thai 1 as new year, but who the hell are they to say
    that panchangam should not be read in the temples on cithirai 1?

    Shame on us who cant even protest in this small group, if not on the streets.

    Recently we were discussing about what is controversy and what should be written in this
    group. As rightly pointed out by Arun (is that Arun? ) we try to brush things under the
    carpet saying that its controversial and never talk about it and gain and spread knowledge
    about it. When the whole world accepts that the aryan invasion theory is a myth, we still
    stick to it because talking about it going to create controversy.

    And we say that this group likes to bring out true history and preserve culture, but dont
    spell a word when the culture is torn to pieces.

    Moderators, you are free to delete this post, because from others perspective, this mail is
    surely not related this group.

    God save this country from these butchers of Hinduism...
  • Satish, your passion is well placed. I also hear that
    temples are not allowed to read 'panchangam' and are
    being forced to abide by english new year. I am very
    much shocked myself. But at this time I believe there
    are more things to be shocked. The food crisis is #1
    on the list. Farmers are committing suicide more than
    ever. No vegetable is less than 40 Rs per kg and riots
    are happening all over the world.

    As a humanist first and foremost I prefer to pay heed
    to this more than what the stupid DMK government does.
    Our religion and tradition has survived years of
    assault and will survive this also.

  • I also didn't know this change, and as you rightly pointed out, this
    is ridiculous and atrocious to poke into people's beliefs by force.
    > 'Nenju porukudhillaye..intha nilai ketta manitharai ninaithu vittaal'..beautiful words of
    > Bharathi... and the nilai ketta manitar includes me who dont have the back bone to fight

    You can also quote another Bharathi's song. "Nenjil Uramum indri,
    Nermai thiramum indri, Vanjanai solvaradi kiliyae, vai sollil
    veeraradi...", check the video below and the first dialogue still
    holds good.
  • Ponniyin selva rasiga perumakkalukku en iniya Chithirai muthal
    thamizh puthaandu vazthukkal.

    Satish, no worries, people may have not protested as possibly they
    think the govt may not last for long :-) Other option is many are
    busy with their lives and they do not feel it necessary to deem tamil
    new year as a critical aspect of life.
    Ofcourse, Pongal - Navarathiri - Diwali have bigger 'ratings' than
    Tamil new year in many of our younger generation atleast in the major

    We are moving towards a mini pralayam ofcourse (current global
    financial crisis is a pralyam ofcourse) - I have always wondered how
    India manages her grass root credit and mortgage, just going by pay
    slip etc is something I fail to understand. In US we have a credit
    rating history etc and yet we are in deep crisis now. I have a
    feeling we are in some serious difficult times ahead - a pralayam

    Quality man power is also declining, money without knowledge seems to
    be the run of hour now. Enga poy mudiyumo...Eswaran thaan 'reset'

    I agree with Ravi.
    please see may post:


  • Dear Sri,

    The 2 or 3 wishes which i mentioned includes those 2 :) But still till
    last year we had floods of wishes,and even for Jan 1 we do get flooded.

    Changing Tamil new year from chitirai 1 to thai 1 is ofcourse
    political, but forcing not to read panchangam in temples on chitirai 1 -
    what do you want to call it? And if I am not wrong, panchangam is
    prepared and read by brahmins in most of the temples (or all?). I have
    never witnessed it so I am not sure who reads it or what they read. But
    still its a attack on the hindu beliefs. Will Karunanidhi dare to do
    this with other religions? Will he dare to say that in TN only thai 1
    should be observed as new year and hence there should be no prayers in
    the church on 1st Jan?
  • Bharathi is a genius.. again a poor soul who was neglected by the
    govts. for the simple reason that he was a brahmin by birth. Again for
    people who say Bharathi has been respected by all and has been given
    the due respect, I beg to differ, no Dravida katchi quotes him and they
    quote only Bharathidasan, no govt. officials garland him on his birth
    or death anniversay.

    I used to wonder, If he had sung so broken hearted in those days, what
    would have he sung if he is alive today? Probably he would have took up
    arms? He was a revolutionist in his own sense for his period.
  • India with her rich heritage - Vedas - shanmathams - with such a
    strong foundation and where we are today... its really a sad plight.
    We all have veedu vasal but what ever happened to the 'perinba
    peruveedu' that we are really supposed to go after :-)

    more importantly, porul illaruku ivulagam ? but the Arul is how it
    should end.

    Anyway, Barathi wrote a precision song optimal for our country in
    today's life ,I believe the great poet foresaw the future generations
    and wrote the lines 'Nallathor veenai (Bharatam) seithe athai nalam
    keda puzhuthiyil (Today's bharatham) erivatundo...then... he goes on
    to say, Solladi abirami, ennai sudar migum arivudan padaithu vittai,
    vallamai thaarayo intha maanilam payanura vazhvatharke (such songs
    are his gift to us so we can get back to establishing that path of
  • i think its 'solladi sivasakthi' and not abirami...
  • Yes - thanks for correction - sorry abirami anthadhi padichitu
    irunken avale vanthuta :-) ...
  • Solladi Abirami is the first line of the Abhirami
    Andhadhi based song penned by Kannadasan for movie Adi
    Parasakthi, and sung with great passion by TMS for SV
  • Ravi, in some ways we are far from ideal, but want to
    say one thing though - seeking 'arul' is a personal
    path for each person. It is possible if you are in
    India, in Iceland, Australia or anywhere in the world.
    Bharati wrote many of his poems in dark cell rooms, he
    didn't have any ideal outside circumstance either.

    If we seek 'perinbam' as individuals through us that
    inbam will spread all over the world .Yaam petra inbam
    peruga iv vaiyyagam, that is all it is.

    My two cents,

  • //I am shocked to see there is no protest to this move. If people say
    that this group is not the place to discuss this...I beg to differ.
    This is certainly in our groups purview. When we say we are trying to
    protect our culture and history, is this not a big hit to our

    I agree with you Satish. There should have been some protests. But
    nothing. Why? Tamilian's backbone is already broken.

    When our temple sculptures were painted with oil paints and made our
    goddess look like a bar girl with mini skirt, we did not protest.

    When pillaiyaar was given AK47 and military dress during vinayakar
    chadhurthi, our blood did not boil.

    When temples were destroyed and bathroom tiles were fixed inside the
    sanctum in the name of renovation, our nenju poruththadhu.

    When governments murdered their citizens in the name of religion, we
    didnt have guts to raise the voice.

    When government intervened in the culture of siru dheyva vazhipaadu,
    we least bothered about that.

    When mutts involved in murder cases, we convinced ourselves as
    political tit-for-tat.

    When school students were forced to sing saraswati vandhanam, we
    tried to justify that saraswati is common to everyone.

    Then, how can you expect such boneless creatures to react only for
    this? Just because we are programmed to attribute bad things to DMK
    and find faults only in Dravidian parties?
  • you missed out cinema - divnie hymns remixed to become cheap numbers.
    infact i was shocked to see a recent number portraying the hero and
    heroine dressed as krishna n radha etc etc. compare this to the days
    of yore - NTR as krishnar - so much grace and character..

    had this kind of degrading even attemped to any other religion, the
    culprits behind would be facing a fatwa and running for their lives.
    not that i am for that radical moves, but certain things have a
    dignity and sanctity associated with it. which is shockingly mocked by
    these and the society by turning a blind eye to them sets a
  • Dear Members,

    When the TN Government announced that the tamil New Year begins from
    Tamil month " Thai first " (which announcement is already 3 month
    old) Where is the question of protesting that now?

    When Media - particulary TV Channels with Mass viewership also
    used " Chithirai pirappu " and things like that we can also record
    our views here and be done with it ...

    Since the topic is discussed my view is :

    SARVAJITH was last Tamil New Year ..

    IN this word SARVA is NOT TAMIL DICTION. JITH too.

    This Year is SARVA DHARI ... Again same thing.

    When did this 60 year NAMING OF TAMIL YEARS occur ?
    who did ? when commenced ?
    How commended from Chithirai ?

    Why TN Government is telling this to be computed from " Thai" ?

    With these concrete points made available for discussion we can put
    forward our views .. instead of mentioning specific names /
    parties / races.


  • Vijay,


    is a highly POPULAR devotional Song by LR Eswari .. which we have been
    listening for more than a decade.

    This is tailor-made to a movie and the visuals are not befitting
    Kaali, Magamayi or Karumari .... !!

    Freedom of expression .. !

  • Very good point regarding movie remixes. In telugu the
    movie Ramadasu recently starred Suman as Sri Rama.
    Suman was a pornographic movie actor and was arrested
    some time ago for soliciting college girls to make
    porn movies. I agree actors cannot live up to their
    images but while portraying godly images some respect
    should be there.

    The late NTR not only was graceful as an actor, he
    abstained taking meat and alcohol out of deference to
    the role. His own son Balakrishna said he took alcohol
    and cannot portray Sri Rama therefore.

    Times change, unfortunately mostly for the worse.
  • Ellorukum Vanakam ,

    I am pretty much off line reader for a long time. Really lot of good stuffs made me to active here . (fullstop about me )

    Can any one say , Why do we celebrate tamil new year , what is a history behind it , what is a significant incident made us to start the year on this month on this day(sithirai 1). Really our govt decision made me think in this direction.
    Just give a views ....

    - Eswar
  • Even if they are not to begin with, they can always modify post
    If the Lord can cure Arunagiri / Valmiki etc Suman or so is no big
  • The question is not just changing the new year from chitirai 1 to thai
    1. I too read about it a few months back. These are obvious political
    stunts and people are not bothered about it. Even now, the whole state
    will be celebrating the new year only on chitirai 1 and not on thai 1.

    But I got wild when I heard that the panchangam reading was banned in
    the temples. This is what I called atrocious.

    Reposting my question - 'if the govt. is so strong in celebrating only
    thai 1 as new year and can ban panchangam reading in temples on
    chitirai 1, can the pass an order to stop the new prayers in the
    churches on Jan 1?'

    My protest was only for the religious intervention of the state when
    they call themselves secular. Secular actually means govt. keeping
    away from religion and not treating all religion equal. Forget equal
    treatment, in India seulcar alwasy means pro-minority...

    Yes, our backbone has been broken long ago and only god can save this

    Remembering Tirumoolars word - 'iruttai iruttaki azhippan'. He will
    make darkness more darker before removing it.
  • Dear SPS,
    There were lot protests on this Government move. There are evidences from sangam litrature for Chiththirai as year beginning. But I could not find a single historical evidence for Thai being the year beginning.

    r Paambu panjangam? Or Govt has any other agency to tell us which day the Thai month begins?

  • Dear Satish,

    I was thinking aloud on this subject, since you opened saying " let
    us not say this is not the forum to discuss ..."

    But to discuss, several essential facts needed ..

    And primarily religeous and Cultural outfits should have opened
    their views... surprisingly very less..

    Let me put one question straight ::


    Atleast put 5 names for comparison ..

    Mu Va
    Thae Po Mee
    Bharathi Dasan
    Parithimal Kalaignar
    Ma Po Sivagnam
    Kripananda Variyar ..... all gone

    My Tamil Professor Dr.SATHIYA SEELAN (tamil) is a Living Legend ..

    Kavipperasu is my very good friend...

    There are Scholarly Professors very good at Tamil language ..

    But with due regards to most of them, are they acceptable to the
    Mass ?

    I prefer to keep POLITY out of this .. since no gain Political gain
    is apparently by this.

    I am yet to get convinced What Prabava - Vibhava ---- Sarvajithu -
    Sarvadhari (tamil years) have to do with Tamil !

    regards/ sps


    > --- In [email protected], "Sivapathasekaran"
  • You are right SPS. Then the govt. should have tried to study the
    origin of the names rather than changing the new year over night.

    now will they have a new set of names for each year starting with Thai
    1? Yes may be, they will name each year after each caste leader for
    the vote bank.

    Yes. Karunanidhi may be a well versed in tamil, but a scholar should
    use his brains for the benefit of the masses and not to hurt the
    masses or take them for a ride. This attitude differentiates Hitler
    from Gandhi.

    I also like to know more on this move, was there any
    scientific/literary study done to make this change of Thai 1 as the
    tamil new year? As you say that Karunanidhi is the only living Tamil
    scholar, did he give any explanation to this move? This is not a
    sarcastic question, but a genuine one to know on what basis the move
    was brought forward.
  • I am sorry, I don't think I worded my post very well.
    I didn't mean anything religious particularly, I meant
    more of commitment/respect/dedication the profession
    which is missing in today's generation (as an actor
    example - NTR brought a high degree of those values,
    he lived his roles while he acted them (he was a
    prolific meat eater otherwise :)) which was one of the
    reasons for his success.

    I am all for the freedom of opinion as SPS pointed
    out. LR Eswari's Karpoora Nayigiye used to be sung
    with great gusto by the maids in my family for
    Navarathri. My mother was one of those rare people who
    invited the servant women for 'thamboolam' in the
    conservative Mylapore neighborhood. Her only condition
    was that they should sing. Muniamma and her sisters
    used to sing 'karpoora nayikiye' with great fervor,
    sometimes we would even join in.

    God is not limited by our boudaries of religion/caste
    or even good or bad habits as we see them.

  • >
    > Then, how can you expect such boneless creatures to react only for
    > this? Just because we are programmed to attribute bad things to DMK
    > and find faults only in Dravidian parties?

    Absolutely, I can only cry and again have to quote only Bharathi -

    "தண்ணீர் விட்டோ வளர்த்தோம்..." (Thaneer Vitto Valarthom sarvesa...)
  • Hi Malathi,

    On the East coast (TN), Chidambaram (cosmic dancer), Seerkazhi
    (birth place of Thirugnana Samandar / Thirumangai Aazhwar) -
    Thiruvengadu (aadhi chidambaram ) - Thirukkadayur ( Kaalasamharan /
    Abhirampi battar )- Tarangampadi @ Tranqubar (first European
    migration - Dutch / Dilapidated Seashore temple Maasilamaneeswarar) -
    Thirunallaru (Saneeswaran) - Sikkal (Murugan - Singaravelan) -
    Nagaptnam ( One of Saaptha (7) vidangars - Neelayadakshi) -
    Vedharanyam @ Thirumaraikkadu ( Eastern Door opened / closed by
    Sambandar / Appar hymns- recall movie Thiruvartchelvar) are located.

    In this stretch,

    Tarangampadi @ Tranqubar Church is acknowledeably ancient one..
    Nagai Darga is ancient one..
    Velankanni Madha Church is ancient one...

    Not only me - many Hindus - while travelling in this stretch, offer
    prayers (Candles /naatuchakarai etc) in these places of worship too.

    Citizens of other Faith living in these areas - cutting across
    Religeous frontiers - mix freely and truly adopt Secularism !!

    Ysterday I was surprised to see a Joseph (my Car driver from
    Kottayam) lisening and murmoring Carnatic music. when asked he said
    seveal of his Christian friends are learning and singing Carnatic
    music (like Dr. Jesudas !!)

    That is the brighter side to cherish with.

    regards / sps
  • Bharathi never seizes to amaze us. He has song for every situation. Let
    it be love, bakthi, freedom struggle, even post freedom - a real

    'padagam seibavarai kandal, nee bayam kollalagathu pappa..
    modhi methithu vidu pappa, avar mugathil umizhnthu vidu pappa...'

    If we do that, we will not be alive to swollow the next umizh... :)

    while watching the song in the link you provided, I saw another song
    side by..

    'endru thaniyum intha sudandhira dagam'

    Today we need a second freedom from enemies within...corruption, caste
    based politics, indiscipline etc.

    Again, thinking of the situation, when the whole world has accepted
    that the aryan invasion theory is a myth and there are not seperate
    race as Aryans, we dont change ourselves and still stick to it.

    But when some one says that Thai 1 is the tamil new year and not
    chitirai 1, immediately the change is propsed.

    If this interest is shown in reveling the true history of India, we
    would have gone far.

    Basically its a matter of convinience for the politicians rather than
    fact or public interest.
  • Dear Friends,

    this morning while watching the news item in Kalignar TV, just

    THE BIG TEMPLE (Photo ) is Prominent behind a News Reader.

    MALLAI SHORE TEMPLE (photo) is Prominent behind another News Reader.

    Not that I have political affliations ..
  • >
    > MALLAI SHORE TEMPLE (photo) is Prominent behind another News Reader.
    Hi sir,

    Not sure we discussed this before, but of all the
    temples/gopurams/monuments photographed - i think the shore temple has
    a uniqueness about it - its got a peculiar charm - whether shot in
    stilloutte or in light - despite it being worn down, its got a certain
    asthetics to it. from any angle, from any side - in any light, its got
    a certain mesmerising charm. the twin irregular towers seem to have
    some divine symmetry that is pleasing to our eyes
  • Hi
    that song is on youtube.
    uses manimE maniyin oliye manipunaintha....

    ... anugaathavarkku piniyE pinikku marunthE...

    that song alone.
    pity they didnt use too many andhathi songs.

    in movie guna 2 anthathi songs used in that temple song.
    also one beautiful dance in a simran prasanth starrer used an

    but every song 100+ 2 are brilliant.

    in the first kaappu song he introduces ganesha thillai ooraar tham
    baagaththu umai mainthaE

  • Read the below article, which is a more scientific
    approach to the Tamil calender problem:

  • Hi sps
    its common sense to open a new year with spring season.
    why open it during winter.

    the english new year too at some point of time was in april but with
    adoption of the gregorian calender(??) changed. that has something to
    do with the april fools day i have read.

  • here are a few new years from across the world

    1 January: The first official day of the year in the Gregorian
    calendar used by most countries.
    14th jan; the orthodox churches of Georgia, Jerusalem, Russia,
    Macedonia and Serbia
    The Chinese, tibetian, vietnamese, New Year, can fall anytime
    between 21 January and 21 February

    New Year's Day in the Sikh Nanakshahi calendar ( a new contreversial
    calender introduced by spgc)is on March 14.
    The Iranian / Zoroastrian New Year, called Norouz, falls on 20 March.
    In the Bahá'í calendar, the new year occurs on the vernal equinox on
    21 March, and is called Naw-Rúz.

    sindi telugu, kannada new years in march april

    The Punjabi (Sikh) new year Vaisakhi is celebrated on 13 April and
    celebrates the harvest.
    The Nepali new year usually falls between 12 and 15 April.
    The Thai and Lao New Year are celebrated from 13 April to 15 April by
    splashing water.
    The Cambodian New Year are celebrated from 13 April to 15 April.

    The Bengali New Year The Sinhalese New Year malayaali Vishu are all
    on these days.
    marwaris and gujarathis may have anew year around diwali

  • Hi
    there is no rural hindu wedding without " vaaraayo tholi vaaraayo"
    there is no mariamman festival without "karpoora naayakiye
    both sung by a christian singer called lourde rajeshwari.
    funny are the ways of lord.or did he keep more than fun to all these

    and by the way malathi suman has acted as lord venkateshwara in
    nagarjuna starred "annamayya"


    > > > > >
    > > > > > " ...KARPURA NAAYAGIYE KANAGA VALLI ........
    > > > > >
    > > > > > is a highly POPULAR devotional Song by LR Eswari
  • Yes Venkat, am aware of that. I don't believe anyone
    can come close to NTR as far as playing divine roles,
    judging by the popularity of these actors that is self

    I don't have anything against anyone's
    religion/personal life/habits including meat eating as
    far as their profession goes, meaning the God I
    believe atleast is unbiased on those factors. But am
    not so sure about criminials, this guy kidnapped and
    made porn movies with many innocent college girls, as
    public we cannot really do anything about the case
    personally - but as I told several of my telugu
    friends, I would not watch his movies atleast not as
    him playing Sri Rama.
  • How about Panjangam study ?
  • SPS,

    Your questions are thought provoking. I tried searching on the net (I
    really envied Vijay, how he gets accurate data? I am very poor in
    searching). The points I could gather were:

    1. In 1921 around 500 scholars under the lead of Maraimalai adigalar,
    met at Pachaiyappan college and came to the conclusion that Thai 1
    should be the tamil new year.
    2. Tiruvlluvar was born 31 years before christ and hence the
    Tiruvalluvar andu was taken as the official Tamil Year.

    Except this I couldnt gather much.

    We have discussed in length about deducing historical events. But
    these points dont fit in that realm.

    Lot of open ended questions :

    1. who were those 500 scholars?
    2. what were the facts based on which they concluded that Thai 1 is
    the tamil new year?
    3. How come they know that Tiruvalluvar was born 31 years before
    christ? Even the birth year of christ is not yet confirmed, there is
    no evident proof for the year of his birth. some say 1 AD commenced 4
    years after Christ was born, so and so forth. And also no one knows
    when Tiruvalluvar lived and how come they are sure that he was born 31
    years before Christ?

    As Venkatesh rightly pointed out, most of the new years start during
    the spring. If i am correct, the Indira vizha of sangam literature is
    a spring festival and should be around this period. Probably the new
    year was celebrated as Indira vizha. Human minds think alike and the
    new year falling between March and April around the world (i think
    most)is a proof for this.

    One thing I am happy about is - I started the thread with the feeling
    that no one dared to wish puthandu vazhtu and every one changed to
    chitirai tirunal vazhthu. But now this thread with the subject line
    repeatedly say 'Iniya puthandu vazhthukkal'.No one changed the subject
    line :)

    Venkat, Its news to me that LR Eswari is Lourde Rajeswari. How come
    you know so much trivia? Surprising, as you say the stroke of the lord.
  • Dear SPS,

    I searched the net and found some content which
    discuss the Tamil Calender in detail and some of them
    give a scientific explanation why it should be Jan 14.

    ..and it seems there are proper Tamil names for the
    months ( look for Suravam, Kumbam, Mezham etc.,
    somewhere in the middle of the page):

    Somebody mentions that these Tamil names are common in
    Malaysian Calenders. Some also try to explain in
    scientific terms why the Tamil months have different
    number of days.

    Needs more research to assert the facts! Somebody good
    in astronomy can establish the facts with proper
    mathematics and observational data.

    Thanks and best regards,
  • I have a question on these birth dates of Indian people, have we not
    gone by masam + natchtram than any western date ? was Jesus birth
    calculated by Roman calendar how was that adjusted against the Indian
  • Sorry VK. I am not able to get your point.

    the first link you gave, I also came across this, but that article
    speaks about the logic of having April 14th as the new year and not
    Jan 14th. Only the last lines says that some people claim Thai 1 as
    new year and nothing more than that. Am I missing something?

    I am not sure about the Tamil names of the months, as these do not
    sound too Sanskritic. But as SPS pointed, the year names are surely

    Again, the question is not yet answered (and I cannot accept your
    words that the link you provided gives scientific explanation for
    Jan14 as Tamil new year) - What is the basis for saying Jan 14 is the
    Tamil New year?
  • SPs, interesting post on Kalignar. When you find time
    could you really write more on his literary

    I don't have any political affiliations one way or the
    other myself but I have seen this deep rooted, long
    standing rivalry between 'upper castes' and 'others'
    in TN that takes form in many ways.

    enough respect( or no respect). That is very true and
    strongly a caste issue. Rajaji is almost a forgotten
    almost everyone who has or had DK affiliations are
    hated with a vengeance among upper castes, regardless
    of their individual contribution. I was at a family
    reunion once and pointed out Periyaar's contribution
    to women's rights, I was lucky put it mildly to escape
    alive. Singers like MSS take great efforts to blend
    with brahmin society, MSS even changed her pure tamil
    madurai diction to a brahmin diction prounoucing all
    'sa' as 'sha' and so on.

    Casteism marches on in one form or the other. Unless
    we learn to recognize every human being as human
    without their background prejudice we will never make
    progress as a country.

  • > Someone wrote about Bharati not getting
    > enough respect( or no respect). That is
    > very true and strongly a caste issue.

    > no Dravida katchi quotes him and they
    > quote only Bharathidasan,

    Dravidian parties not quoting Bharathi is not at all true. I can show
    lot of examples. Even many writers who support dravidian movements
    wrote many books on Bharathi. Have you ever read Kalaignar's kavithai
    written during Anna's funeral? If not, go to Anna arivalayam and see
    that poem kept in the museum. You can see the reference to Bharathi
    in that. The best example is Kalaignar's Paraasakthi. The *SAME* song
    which you have quoted is there. People criticising Bharathi just
    because of his cast is very minimal, which happens for every other

    Its true that Caste played with Bharathi. But it was during his time.
    He was ill-treated by his own caste people. Things are much better
    and he is well recognised now. His songs made popularised, His
    birthday celebrated, A university in his name, A memorial house,
    Frequently remembered by people and scholars and what not? Can you
    list what else could have been done in Bharathi's case which other
    leaders are enjoying? Instead of just telling not there, not there,
    please tell what should have been done.

    > Today we need a second freedom from
    > enemies within...corruption , caste
    > based politics, indiscipline etc.

    Correct. Kindly include religion based politics too.

    > Again, thinking of the situation, when
    > the whole world has accepted
    > that the aryan invasion theory is a
    > myth and there are not seperate
    > race as Aryans, we dont change
    > ourselves and still stick to it.

    This is called as Sandhula sindhu paadaradhu!!! Which world accepted
    the invasion theory, satish? The world in Mambalam, Mylapore,
    Nanganallur and Madippakkam? Come on, there is something beyond

    > Its ATROCIOUS to intervene in religious
    > belief just to satisfy and get vote from a few.

    I couldnt understand how will it get vote and who will vote for this

    > Primarily I suggest one should read
    > and understand more about Arignar
    > Anna, Periyar and Kalignar - before
    > uttering anything negative....
    > I will stop here.

    Perfect SPS!!! Well said. Periyar, Anna and Kalaignar read Ramayana
    and other epics before they criticise. But these Dravidian movement
    bashers fail to do that.
  • Hi

    I have a feeling every conversation leads o the aryan dravidian

    first my opinion on bharathi.
    i dont think he was mistreated because he was a bramhin.

    if that was the case his memories would have been erased in favour of
    the dravidian poets.
    i dont even know how some of these dravidian poets looked like.
    bharathi's memories have been well nurtured.
    i think instead of discussing about bharathi's caste( which he
    himself wouldnt have liked) we have so many factors in his writings
    and life to discuss.the recent one is something our group hasnt even
    touched i feel sorry to say.)
    the discovery of bharathi's letters to 'the hindu' in english.
    vijay, can you post some details on that from the hindu.

    i hope members will keep away from these topics that hinder a smooth
    its not that we shouldnt discuss them but when we do sudeenly there
    is a lot of anger and for a week or so nobody writes.


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