AK, I was hoping to stop but it looks like it is not yet time.
. So the statement was put in to 'wake up' masses?? How long has it been since masses actually believed priests and brahmins? And how many DMK politicians including Kalaignar have taken total advantage of their ignorance for getting votes and staying in office? It was a time when EVR said that, how many years have gone by? Nowadays an average brahmin boy or girl cannot even get college admission.Most brahmins like someone said have gone abroad to further their living.
Second I don't think you can group Periyar/Anna/Kalignar like they all have same values and principles. Periyar was from the freedom fighers generation, he was unselfish and committed to his cause. The cause was diluted in Anna's times. Perhaps the only thing you can respect about Kalaignar is that he is a tamil scholar. He is one of the most corrupt politicians there ever was.
Lastly reasons are not excuses. The fact that someone else is poor/illiterate/some way is not mine or your excuse to treat others with rudeness and disrespect. If you are poor, illiterate, one of those conditions and you call a believer 'kattu mirandi' I can forgive, perhaps. The fact that so many like you are educated, literate people writing on these blogs and using 'those' people as an excuse to propogate this rudeness is itself unethical and demeaning.
A point blank question, is this a blunt approval of the slipper garland process ?
Vaariyar shouting in a session is NOT to be equated to this demonstration, I dont think that is a fair comparison.
Ravana uttered the name of Rama more than any one else in Ramayana. He was given mukthi and granted the vision of the Paramatma. EVR Statue... today sits right in front of Ranganathar Shrine. I have not noticed so I would like to know the pose in which his statue is built. Is it upright ?
> Ravana uttered the name of Rama more than any one else in Ramayana. > He was given mukthi and granted the vision of the Paramatma. > EVR Statue... today sits right in front of Ranganathar Shrine. > I have not noticed so I would like to know the pose in which his > statue is built. Is it upright ?
if i remember correctly, it is statue built in a sitting posture.
There is an unsubstantiated story that EVR himself was a 'secret beliver' in his last days, being fed up with politics in his party and workers. Venkat mentioned opulent pooja rooms in his family, I have heard of that also, from some relatives in Trichy.
This type of twisted argument that slipper garland was to prove God does not take offence is not convincing to anyone. First of all neither Periyar nor his followers ever said that, it is others saying that for them. Secondly there are limits to subscribe to as far as interpretation goes. I cannot slap my mother to prove to the world that she won't take offence. A slap hurts and implies disrespect that is all. If I want to prove she wont take offence I say that first of all, and prove it in less insulting ways if I have to.
> The fact that so many like you are educated, > literate people writing on these blogs and using > 'those' people as an excuse to propogate this rudeness > is itself unethical and demeaning.
Did anyone in this group write or propagate that 'Kadavulai nambukiravan kaattumiraandi', etc? You only opened this phrase yesterday and i just explained (did not justify) about the situation when it was said. Now, you turn the plate and blame me as if i told this to you. First of all, i dont see any need for this phrase in the context of this thread. No idea about your motive on pulling this thread towards corruption by kalaignar, which no one denies including his party men. If you want to debate with atheists, there must be some groups for that or periyar thidal is the right place. You will get good response and can come back safely. They are not given swords.
In the same line of your thinking, referring one caste as 'upper caste' is also unethical and it disrespects others. Have you ever realised that?
I too dont want to continue participating in this thread as it is not the place for fight between religious and anti-religious groups. This group may involve culture in its interest, but the wild term culture refers to everything from the evolution of human race. I think it is time to differentiate between what element of cultures are attributed to history, which falls under the interests of this group and what are not.
I dont just hope, but will show in action too. I have nothing to loose by stop replying. Dont expect mail from me in this topic.
AK, I have not ever refered to myself as 'upper caste' and this was only in the context of discussion.In any case my sincere apologies if that reference hurt anyone including yourself.
Of course Kalaignar's ethics figure in the subject, as much as anyone elses. As far as the 'muttaal' issue goes - that is exactly what I meant by disclaimer. It would be good for you too to say I did not intend anytihng personal to anyone who is non dravidian, that is all. That is all what anyone looks for, a certain safety and minimal respect so that we can talk. .
My apologies to the moderators for taking this issue so further. Thank you
whats happening, this thread is getting no where and if members would like to still hammer in their views, would request it to be taken off the record with private mails.
infact a lot of things have been said in this thread - except for the subject the whole thread has crossed its limits....we are letting emotions run riot here which is very much alien to the nature of this group.looks like moderators have taken a vacation .....
Hope one of the moderators just deletes this thread. The argument is getting ridiculous by the day. The group has been started to discuss about PS and other related ones. A once in a while off-topic discussion is good but this is bordering on madness. Just delete the whole thing and lets start something on PS.
Hi any more mails on this topic will d be deleted by the moderator who sees it first. but i dont think its right to delete what has already been written. for example if somebody starts this topic again we could always say " see the archieves."
Leave Yellaam illa sir. We Maduraiites tend to be very happy during Thirukalyaanam. We feel incredibly good things happen to us on this day. If a cocunut falls on our head we feel our Meenakshi has given us a cocunut instead feeling the pain. Its just a day when my employees, myself inclduingthe whole of Madurai is happy. Afterall is there a more special day in Madurai?
Venkat, you can delete from archives also, I don't have a problem. If we start a debate we have to conclude it that was my intention that is all.
Kalki himself had no real need to touch on social issues, he was best selling writer of historic fiction. He took advantage of the forum to say what was right. There is NOTHING WRONG in discussing socially important issues that impact every area of our life. As someone said we are scared and want to sweep it under the carpet that is all under the name of harmony and sensitivity.
hi In the past ,particularly during the sangam period ,ilakkiangal and ilakkanangal for those ilakkiyangal rose.five ilakkanangal. ezhuthilakkanam,sollilakkanam,porulilakkanam,yaappilakkanam,aniyilakkanam.
under yaappu, so many subdivisions such as nilam(kurinji,etc),pozhuthu,porul(karupporul,uriporul)etc are present.regarding this pozhuthu
pozhuthu-sirupozhuthu perumpozhuthu are he classifications of pozhuthu which indicate the seasons. ilavenil,muthuvenil,munpanikaalam,pinpani kaalam,koothirkaalam,kaarkaalam are under .and completion of every kaalam takes some months. if u take thai as the starting of the year it will be an itermediate period of pani kaalam.so it will be somewhat vittakurai thottakurai.also in llakkanam and ilakkiyam if they mention about these kaalangal they firstly use to mention ILAVENIL.it starts from chithirai.so may be the reason for selecting chithirai as the first month.
and another path.there are twelve zodiacs.it is said that suriyabaghavaan stays in each zodiac for a month.and therefore completes 12 raasis.in chithirai his sanchaara is in mesha raasi.and in panguni he completes one cycle in meena raasi.this also can be considered.
but i think this chithirai new year cannot be considered as tamil new year alone.the whole india might have followed the same pattern.because those kaalams are formulated and followed by tamils and those raasis and all based upon raasis are formulated by aryans.if u just relate the above two u will find that there is a coincidence of the starting month as chithirai.they might have followed the same pattern but with different names just like different versions of diwali(narahaasura vatham,ramar vanavaasam mudinthu naadu thirumbuthal,etc)
but a thing to think,while we have lo........ng distance to go,that is to reach a position that "THANI ORUVANUKKU UNAVILLAIYENIL JAGATHINAI AZHITHIDUVOM" bharathi's lines do we need this change?i think this problem has been created by kalaignar just for political reasons.of course there may be some impact.that also will be in this single way only.like us somewhat educated people and "THOSE WHO ARE HAVING NET FACILITIES" will be discussing of this change through net.the result of those discussions will be emergence of so many older news( i am mentioning about the fights between polotical parties).but the use of them to common people????????????ipdiye nadanthu kondirunthaal entha paathahamum illai,ithu tharpozhuthu maariyathaal entha saathahamum illai.so intha maatrathai tharpozhuthu kalaignar erpaduthuyathu sirchila porihalai mattume kilappi vidum.entha vazhiyil endraal "avar hindu manangalai punpaduthuhiraar?" . i am not criticizing anyone.but i am asking "is this change necessary now?"oru velai saappaadu kedaikaadhavanukku avanukku ennaikku saappaadu kedaikutho athu than new year".evalavo prachanaihal irukkaiyil prachanaiye illaatha vishayathil govt ipdi concentrate panrathu sariya?
/////> One cannot help > wonder, would our dravidian friends consider putting a > disclaimer, that 'muttal' and 'kattu mirandi' do not > include many believers who have supported anti > casteism and rational thought? I am sure the answer > you will get is total silence.
It obviously means that only. No need for any disclaimer. I know many people who dont get offended by this and understand the reality and necessity of this statement, like our SPS and Nithya.////
I am sorry for writing a mail on this topic again, but I would like to clear my stance.
I suppose this is were people mistook me grossly ,, I said i am in loos of words .. Because I jus can understand how people can jus meditate on the outer facade without concentrating on the Soul.. As Gita calls.... its a Ostrich philosophy.. Where the Atheist thinks he is safe because he has called others Muttal... Prbly my sarcasm did not work!! I kept calm, only for the reason that I did not want to protract the issue even after knowing that I was mistook, and the same was getting vicious. The argument was getting more political, and I was not concerned to encourage it.
Hope I have cleared thy stand. Sorry once again for writing a mail on this topic…