hi since we are discussing on ps and pk as well - bringing up ss as well..
(pulikesi) when he prepared himself speedily for the conquest of the cholas, the river ( kaveri) which abounds in the rolling eyes of the carp, abandoned its contact with the ocean, having its waters obstructed by the bridge formed by his elephants, from whom rut was flowing. there he caused the great prosperity of the cholas and the keralas and the pandyas, but became a very sun to the boar frost which was the army of the pallavas. he is also said to have..caused the lord of the pallavas,who had arrived at the eminence of his own power, to hide his prowess within the ramparts of the city of kanchi.
'one is who goes mad just after she read sivakamiyin sabatham and imagines she is sivakami. finally she jumps off from the light house and dies.'
Exactly my opinion. Of course, what do you expect when you read SS other than going mad and jump from the light house? I mean, no disrespect to Kalki, but I think he could've avoided writing the whole story itself..
That also reminded of another instance when JJ asks the protoganist 'Sivagami sabathathai niraivetrivittala?' in 'JJ:Sila Kuripugal' by Sundara Ramasamy. The sarcasm of that line is only to be read to be enjoyed.
Do we have any other references to SS or PS in other novels (I mean not as sequels or anything?) but remarks by characters..?
SS was a fiction riding over what really happened. How would you make any story interesting without a tryst of love - emotion and drama?
The plot was a simple one as Mahendra saves Kanchi but lost his country and is terminally hurt. Pallavas wage a 2 front war as Mahendra takes on Pulikesi brothers with Narasima and Paranjothi campaign on Pandian king at kollidam. Pulikesi finding a genuine threat from Harshavardana as his presence is long lost from Vadapi, returns as it is expensive to continue the southern war.
Post war - Narasima builds a powerful army with various other kings and plans and wages a war against pulikesi.
Now how would you tell this brutal war torn time with a king who had a deep passion for art ? Kalki was no Homer or even Kamban to that matter. However, I tend to believe SS was modelled after Ramayana.
Unless the plot of Sivakami is thrown with a weak link of sabadam it is difficult to portray a heroic tale of Vatapi kondan and siru thondar.
PS: SS cannot be read alone, it should be followed by reading parhiban kanavu and never compared to Ponnyin selvan.
I am not sure why we think Kalki could have avoided SS? I mean to me it is among the best of his works, one that has least loose ends and very believable story line. I think why people have problems with it is mostly our expectation of a 'standard' storyline, a 'sabatham' shold be fulfilled and make a 'hero' out of man or woman, hero and heroine should marry especially if they are lovers and so on. Kalki broke all these barriers with SS. Sivakaami's character is the closest he came to in terms of a well rounded, non contrived, regular woman - she is talented, intelligent, stubborn, proud, indecisive, all that a woman like her can be and yet we like her so much. Narasimha is a regular guy too, he is not like the goody goody RRJ of PS - he is hot tempered, hasty, very much torn between his father and his love for Sivakaami and until the end trying to strike a balance somewhere.
Yes there are references to SS in Parthiban Kanavu, which if I know enough was written before SS (Venkat can you correct if I am wrong). If this is true Kalki never intended to get the hero and heroine married - in Parthiban Kanavu, Narasimha loses his official wife Vanavan Mahadevi and his daughter Kundavi is raised by Sivakaami. The palace is full of rumors that they have an affair, Kalki leaves the relationship to our imagination and also what Kundavi really knows about her father's past and Sivakami is a mystery. But Sivakaami too dies early and terminates all possibilites of marraige again. The only survivor is her athai,Aayanar's sister as a deaf woman in her ripe old age.
SS - especially the ending made many people cry. I remember throwing the book on the wall when I read the chapter on Mahendra Pallava being ready to marry Sivakami himself to stop their love affair!! It roused more passions than most of Kalki's work which is why it is possibly the greatest, in my humble opinion.
I too liked SS, but really wonder why some hate it. namma group Krupava usuppi vitta pothum, he will start polambifying about SS...He hates SS like anything (Krupa are you present?)
Parthiban Kanavu was Kalki's first historical novel , which I think he wrote when he was in Jail. But Kalki has himself said that SS was his first dream and he conceived the idea of SS long back and shaped the story for nearly 12 years, before he penned it. While in Jail he was, I think, forced to write something on freedom struggle and thus came PK and since he had the concept of SS, he could easily plug it in PK
Ahaa..to my mind that could be a 'guy thing'. Lots of guys don't like romance as a central theme or they find it girlish or boring, that is all. SS is a story centered on a woman, narrated from her perpective mostly, granted lots of men have active roles but a story based on a woman essentially - not liking it is same as why guys don't like romance movies too and girls don't like action and war. (very generally speaking).
Just one reason, maybe he has others too definitely but if you look at the loose ends in PS SS is far better. PK depends on when you read it (to me). As a 14 year old i could not guess the sivanidayar was narasimha pallava and my heart missed a beat when i found out. As an adult my niece tells me it is SO obvious. Would be nice to know others experiences.
Ok I am a guy and I generally don't like "Chick-flicks" or "chick-books" but SS is nothing like that. IMHO, SS is Kalki's finest historical novel, far better than his PS. PS has many contrived situations, some confused story lines a hero who requires oodles of luck to accomplish anything (Vanthiyathevan). SS's characters are way more believable as Malathi said. I think Sivakami is
what every intelligent woman is ;) artistic, has definite opinions, is not shy of airing them and has the stubbornness to go along with it !:)
SS? Enna kodumai saravana adhu? Prabhu was not good at delivering that dialogue. He failed even after multiple takes.
Then I gave a suggestion to P.vasu to force prabhu to read PS. Prabhu did and became a great fan of kalki thenafterwards. Then we told prabhu to read SS, he completed the first part quite happily. When came to the second part, hesort of started to curse us and was already in a state of "nallaa maattindome." But exactly when he was in the chapter of the prince and sivagaami romancing in the kal mandapam, prabhu could not control....at 20001 mhz decibels, prabhu shouted "Enna kodumai saravana idhu."
Vayalum vaazhvumnu oru pada title, adhula vijay + t rajendar nadikkaraanga. Andha padathai reserve panni kooda paappane, adhu SSai vida evvalavo madangu thevalai.
Satish, inimey ippadi ellaa pesaadheenga. Enakku thevai illaama BP egurudhu. Maybe I should have read SS first and then PS.adhaan romba yemaandhuttane.
Sivaji was a great fan of SS and in a cine special brought out by Kalki so many years ago had mentioned about Kalki's description of Pulikesi in rapturous details. He had also mentioned about the role of Muthaiyan of "Kalvanin Kathali" he had donned on screen, a departure from the role enacted in the drama by TKS Bhagavathi.
And I can't understand why people don't like SS. It's a fantastic novel, at times even above PS. The cat and mouse game between Mahendran and Budha Bikshu is in itself worth a read. One of the finest characters etched by Kalki is Mahendra pallavan, a devout husband and father, a king who cares for his subjects and very wily too. The way he keeps the massive army of Pulikesi stranded at the North Pennkar bank by delaying tactics after changing the "olai' sent to him by Bikshu through Paranjoti which gives the pallavas time to strengthen kanchi fort is great imagination by Kalki. And like I have mentioned earlier, the ending of this novel is great and brings a mp to the throat.
HI Shivaji/APN might have been inspired by the character of Mahendra pallava as you can lot of this characterization in his Raja Raja Chozhan movie. Make up of Shivaji His penchant for "maruvesham' Going into the his enemy's barracks without fear Secrecy of his plans which are misunderstood by others Disapproval ( feigning) of his son's love His love for arts like Drama and dance Respecting his chief sculptor
Malathi: Sivaji as Mahendra or Narasmha would be very difficult to digest... Physique alone would not match up. We know what happ to Veerabahudevar (and Lord Murugan coz of veera bahu) to Raja Rajan. So ideally speaking... none of the chars we know in the past tamil film history could have played that role to perfection, I am glad that it never was done.
Sivaji is a great actor, one of the greatest in Indi, but he cannot do any role that comes to him, experiments have been disasterous sometimes, honestly I wish we had a charleton heston in Tamil.
> > Sivaji is a great actor, one of the greatest in Indi, but he cannot > do any role that comes to him, experiments have been disasterous > sometimes,
one role that comes to mind is appar peruman in " thiruvarutselvar" my god it must have chased out the pre formed image of the saint anybody had. appar couldnt just have been so well endowed especially with his habits of foot travel, ulavara thirupani etc...
> > nee silenta irundha group silenta irukkum...(captain sir style-il > > padikkavum) :)
My god, its 2 years since you got married? seems as if its quite recent...remember meeting our gang there at the reception, on the way dropped Lavanya at west mambalam.....think thats the last time I saw you and Lavanya....athukulla 2 varusham odi pocha...
ana neeyavathu paravayilla...2 varusham kazhichi thala katita... this Divakar Baskaran....enna annanu yarukkavathu theiryuma.... kasu koduthu veetla yaru browse pannuvanu - vedamtham pesuvane, avana than kekaren....
The other thing I am not convinced is, the way Mahendran appears all the places in different gettup at the right time. I felt like reading Sandilyan novel where the hero is invincible.
Theriyalae appa..(adhe kamal style'il answer). Onnu nalla theriyudhu, my initial surmise was correct, meaning this SS antagonism is a 'guy thing', in your case atleast. Neengal nagaichuvai unarvu neraya ulla thudippana elaijar. Ok. By your own admission you find certain things boring, sari adhuvum ok.
SS is liked by many elainjargal (Arun oru example) for exactly the oppostie reasons you mentioned. It is a romantic love story but NOT on the mills and boony style, mills and boon heroines are not Sivakamis, they are not endowed with any talents, intelligence is questionable and usually all their stories end with 'happily married ever after'. What is so disgusting in a monk feeling attracted to a lady like her? Monks are human beings too, and from the story Naganandhi had a very hard life.
Sari kadhai ungallakku pidikkudo illayo, that is really your preference. Mattam thattamal irundhaal sari, or in other words don't take digs at the story just like that. Nalla vediyya pesareenga, I like your sense of humor, konjum nidhanam/sindanai thevai, adhu ingulla palarudam pazhagi varalam :))
SVR undoubtedly was great as Mahendra Pallava - telugus in general have great physique and are also great actors especially that generation.(SVR, NTR, Nagaiah...). The Sivaji movies preceding the color era were remarkable for acting, Bharata in sampoorna ramayanam for example. When color movies started equally star egos went up. All the APN movies had strong shades of hero worship or roles reverse engineered for the hero, and it is not just in tamil the reverse engineering started in other languages also around this time, and quality of movies went down dramatically. In tamil nadu though sadly audience taste in classical dance, music also detiorated so much that it became impossible to enjoy old classics in a theatre. I remember walking out of AVM's avvaiyaar once because of the cat calls in the theatre. KB Sundarambal again like Sivaji's appar was very well bult to be a travelling saint but her music was remarkable.
Real classy versions of puranic stories are still the best in Telugu, now DVD prints also have sub titles. Try Krishavataram, Sri Krishna Pandaveeyam, Sitarama Kalyanam....absolutely delightful acting, music, and true to original puranic story.
Was down with fever so couldn't respond. But I think Krupa summarized neatly why SS is such a pathetic novel. To re-iterate 1. has a definite mills&boon quality to it. All the romantic interludes and the prince (literally)charming and the lady is poor/sirpi daughter. And a tragic ending to boost. Definite tamil movie formula. 2. Start reading part 1. Skip the entire part 2. You wont feel a thing when you finish. 3. Kalki probably thought of a love story and due to PS just interwoven the same into the supposed prequel.
4. Sivagami is the sappa character in the entire story. Her mood swings apart, no character development, tries to act a panchali (to revenge the people of Vatapi and Pulikesi) to a kaaraikal ammaiyar (dedicating life to Siva). Apparently Kalki couldn't decide what she has to be through the entire story. 5. Narasimha is another prince who couldn't figure what is good for his country vs what is good for Sivakami. He/Paranjothi starts building the army to liberate Sivakami, then decide to take revenge and wreak havoc in Chalukya country. It seems more like an aimless exercise to just take revenge. It just spawned the rivalry and destruction of Kanchi again. 6. Pulikesi, for all his faults, probably is one of the greatest ruler of south India. The one who stopped Harsha in the Vindhyas. Making him a monster to boost Narshima's image doesn't bode well. 7. Comparing with PS is anathema. PS has a intricate story line which kept you engaged. Characters are well developed and consistent and likeable. In Arunmozhi we had a hero immensely talented, who turned to become a great ruler of South India. It challenged the reader's imagination by the complicated story line with so many subtexts (we are still discussing Nandhini's father, rathina haram, who killed AK etc) whereas SS is just an one-dimensional love story, would have been better if it were a short story (say, a oru pakka kathai!).
Calling it a literary work is, at best, a good joke. Quoting Krupa, Prabu will scream 'Enna kodumai saravana Ithu?'
> > Calling it a literary work is, at best, a good joke. > Quoting Krupa, Prabu will scream 'Enna kodumai > saravana Ithu?' > > I rest my case. >
Hi
i have asked this before - why did kalki bring in the gem studded chola sword and the tirukural. am lost - they are shown as something very important - and we find many pages showing them to be kept in the safe keeping of the boatman, the queen even the poli sivan adiyar...dont think there is any historic reference ( unlike the indira haram) here...so why did kalki pull these two into the plot
Muthu, I also want to rest my case as a SS Champion wiht this, last one please be patient.
The characters in SS are a LOT more well formed that PS - how do you explain Nandini with her ambiguius feelings to AK or even VP, or Poonguzhali who swings from being in love with RRJ to suddenly going for SA? Note when we say mood swings we have to consider that characters are people, and people do have mood swings. The way to look at it is if this character was a normal person can we understand what he/she did given her life situation, that is all. Sivakami was given several life situations and she had to react to them in many different ways. She is not a stereotyped person, emotional by nature and is equally dedicated to both her love and her dance, one is able to see her that way and also Narasimha that way, as a king torn between duty and love.
Lastly both you and Krupa have never read Mills and Boons, that is obvious. (The fact that these line of novels are long outdated in the west is another story). Mills and Boon romances are about girl meets boy, boy does something heroic to impress her and finally he carries her off to his castle somewhere. The girl rarely has any talent, the boy rarely any conflict. To compare SS to that type of stories is insulting Kalki, not just fans of SS.
I absolutely agree with Malathi. Some members are bent upon insulting not only our intelligence but more importantly that of the late Kalki whose writings have stood the test of time. I term their comments as "sooriyanai paarthu naai kulaikkindradu".
I do accept that SS is not as good as PS. It took me more time to complete SS than PS. But why should we be so critical about SS? Its just another creation of kalki.
I would say, if you compare SS to Sandilyan's work (atleast the couple of Sandilyan's I read), SS scores atleast 10000 times more.
True statement regards to SS, however every one is entitled to their opinion. I agree with Malathi on her words.
Though, nothing is time tested, no one knows what time has in store. There are grey areas in both books and there will be questions as reasons come out when more people read at different era's, I am sure I dont think the same way as my grand parents and my children may not think same way I do. Unfortunately, we do not have Kalki with us to answer them when these critics arrive on scene... naalai varuvathu yaarukku theriyum, nadanthu parthal naadagam puriyum :)
I dont understand why we should take it personally. Everyone has their views and so is Krupa et al.. I think we should take it light, have fun and disperse, rather than taking these things seriously.. there are lots in life than SS and PS to be serious about. Atleast for me... :)
Taj mahal is considered to be the eighth wonder of the world. Whole world says its fabulous. But when i saw Taj for the first (and till date last)time in 2003, I was not at all thrilled. It seemed to be yet another building to my eyes. Though marvelous, I am not sure whether it deserves the status it enjoys.
But i get thrilled whenever I see Tanjai or pullamangai or even the vellore fort temple.
With this perception, i dont say the people who say Taj is fabulous or fools and also I dont say that I am wrong.
As Vivekananda used to say 'everyone is correct in their own way'.
One nimit... one nimit... Naan Mills & Boon heroinesayum sivagaamiyayum compare pannalai. "Orey thegattara romance.... Mills & Boons thoththudhu" appadinnane.
Moreover, PS also has romance. I enjoyed the VD/Kundhavai romance as much as I enjoyed aazhvaarkkadiyaan & VD's other jokes. Mills & Boon romance presentation appadi rasikkara maadhiri irukkaadhu. Romance-la konjam kindal, konjam kalaayththal, konjam...konjamey konjam sight... adhudhaan PS romance. SS romance overacting.
apparam indha mattam thattaradhunna enna...? oru author-ai mattam thattalaam, oru novel-ai mattam thatta mudiyumaa? Oru nonliving being- ai? adhai ennoda vimarsanam-num eduththukkalaam.
I am really sorry if my reply sounded hurting in anyway. I just tried to take your comment in a sportive tone and did not reply even as harsh as you did.
Don't consider my mails, but see the amount of information from others' mails and how they interact, then form an opinion about this group.
I know you are elderly person and might not be able to adjust to the current generations thoughts or views.
But with all due respects - I dont see Krupa insulting anyones view, but he was just expressing his views. There were healthy debates and in internet, I feel you should not take anything personally.
Inspite of Krupa not insulting any (atleast as far as I understand), you used harsh language and called him a dog, which again he took very sportively.
I am not sure whether you are still in the group, but I condemn the way you use your words like 'naai' or 'nincompoop'. That too not just the person you are arguing with, but the entire group in whole (you said this group is full of people with ego).
No one here is with ego and we all are here to just share and improve our knowledge. Just a big Family as SPS used to say.
Moderators, please correct me if I have erred and apologies if this was an unwarrented message.
I second that. I believe Krupa was sporty in messages and we were on same lines. it does not matter if we agree to one's views, respect to a person is essential. Age is not the criteria as our legends have proven so far, there have been Gyana sambandar profiles at a very young age too.
Abusive language and demeaning others must be refrained in a public forum (I personally think we should practice that in daily life).
I don't believe he insulted anyone either and I think he had the decency also to apologize.
However I want to say one thing ' sooriyanai parthu naai kulathathu' is an often used saying - it does not make 'naai' or' sooriyan' out of the references, only says one should keep qualifying criteria in mind while critiquing.
Sarcasm, 'nakkala' comments can turn many people off - instead of saying dont take this and that personally it would be better to say I am sorry if what I said hurt you and please use sarcasm or 'nakkal'/'illakkaramana' jokes with known friends, not with all and not on a forum. And please don't dig classics on the same lines, whether you like it or not SS is a classic for those who love it. Constructive criticism does not involve 'nakkal' - it only means something was not upto the mark based on objective assesment, as for example Venkat says with some of Kalki's shortcomings.
I want to rest my comments on this and all SS related that has gone behind it.