I have read an article from 'Theivathin Kural' that when the Great King, Raja Raja Cholan, performed the initial Kumbabishekam of Peruvudiayar, he had Othuvaar's on one side and Vedic Brahmanas on other side chanting Vedas.
This has been pretty good until few decades when the clumsy politicians, started targeting at communities and spoilt Tamil Nadu. It would be very evident, if we go through 'Vanavaasam' a book by legendary Kaviyarasu Kannadasan, how a society got spoilt by a political party.
'Aiperum Kappiyam', would have been a dream if U.Ve.Swaminathaiyar had not been there. Similarly Mahakavi Bharathi, a Brahmin, was against the odds, in his personal view, in Hindu society. Hindu's never resisted to worship someone with faith even though they were gods of different religion. Shridi Sai was born a musalman, Vabar, dharshan on the way to Sabari in a must, Hajiali in Mumbai witness many Hindu's, similarly Velankanni is visitied by many Hindu's. And many Hindus had been converted to Christianity, by regularly visiting churches.
Is there any temple, being visited by Muslims/Christians?
It is very evident that Hindus go beyond there religious boundaries, and pave a way for oneness. They had been allured for religious conversion.
Like the Kings of Great Tamil land, their people had also allowed the other religion to practice. This generosity has been misused.
actually he was a christian when he was telling oracle in the kochadai muthiah samy temple. how come he became muslim now i dont know the main mistake u commited in ur last mail is she is not mary jasmine she is meera jasmine. i will not tolerate this kind of mistakes :-)
Dear All In the cathologic faith you can become a pope wherever your origins are in fact a cardinal from Goa was one of the cardinals in the running for the last papal elections Sri
Hi true , the papacy is open to all ethnic groups but till now only
three Africans are known to have occupied the papacy three asians too ( two from syria and 1 from palestine)
but most propably they were members of the Roman populace situated there, they may have been of the Caucasoid race, and were probably Roman in ethnicity.
Dear Satish very interesting Christianity has flourished where other have not because it was flexible not by choice...today there are many sects of christianity but a jehovahs witness whether he is from israel or mexico or ramnad is the same same is for catholics...
the same is for shia and sunni muslims
but they coma under one large umbrella
your arguement is ok for subgroups like saivites vaishnavaithes and sakthas but not for castes
castes are a great achievement of india!!!!
A nadar can be the santhome church father or so can be a dalit theres nothing stopping that but they have to be of that belief ie Jesuit,Salesian and thousand others...
I throw the same coin at you if anyone could be a brahman by vedic rules eg valmiki and vyasa all the govt has done is do the same isnt it....
but in the same vedic tradition eklalaivan couldnt be coached by drona or karna couldnt fight arjuna becuase they were not ksathriyas
Btw there is a temple on a hill top near Mussoorie in UP or is it Uttaranchal which is called Sirkantha devi temple apparantly this is where Sakthis head fell when siva decimated her it is one of the navkalsthals
Hi all one of the titles of the pope is "Servus Servorum Dei" is a Latin phrase meaning Servant of the Servants of God. This phrase is one of the titles of the Pope and is used to refer to the Pope in the beginning address of Papal edicts.
so much similar to " adiyaarkku adiyEn" of our land.
If at all Guru Shrona, had not asked his guru dhakshina to Ekalaivan, and Ekalaivan with Kaurava army with his full form, then Bharatam, would have been much more exciting.
Mahabaratam, is more towards Rajathanthiram. Vidhuraneethi, Yaksha Prashnam and there is another neethi I forgot the name of that munivar, all in a single itihaasam, is wonderful.
Until Lord Krishna, actively came into life of Pandavas, everyone except Kaurava family were towards Pandavas.
Dear Venkat But like misuse of power everywhere the same servants of the servants of god were masters of europe for a long time till renaissance werent they
-Dear Sri you are very right. when I read about the borgia family ( I think in a novel by mario puzo) i was appalled. power when centred in a small area tends to be misused. power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.
if you happen to open the file in wikipedia about popes there is a seperate section on popes who were lusty and murderers.
I just mentioned the title because it reminded me that all religions were endowed with good( and similar) motives.
Wanted to give my opinion on points raised by Sridhar Rathinam.
He has given the following points in his Aryan Dravidian mail.
1. The Vedic Civilisation was Indian 2. Nomadic migrants from Mid Asia You can call them Aryans 3. And the different physical aspects of north indians versus south indians
The problem starts when people start using this "Nomadic migrants" from Mid Asia as originaters of Vedic civilization. Till today there has not been a single proof that nomadic migrants came to India before Vedic period or during vedic period.
In physical appearnce of people, there is bound to be difference because of climate, food and live style. When you take a Kashmiri, Maharashtrian and Tamilian, the Maharashtrian will be in in between the other two in colour complexion, body features etc.
Even in US, people of New England look different from people of Virgina. Not now, but every during the days of Thomas Jefferson and Quincy Adams (around 1780s). Books of Thomas Jefferson and Adam disucss this. This difference is there even though for both New England and Virgina, British people were their ancestors who came to America around 1600s
Second point is about "vedic rules" :
There is an general misconception that Vedas were composed by Brahmins alone. Actually Vedas were composed by people from many communities (brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras etc). In Rig Veda, it is very clear people from all communities composed it and used it. Women also composed Vedas (Lopamudra, Vakyarumbini etc). Shukla Yajur Veda clearly says that Vedas are for every one.
In one part of the Vedas it shows how a hunter clan will perform a Vedic ritual for the benefit of other clans.
What has gone wrong: Over period of time, we have come out of those Vedic values and become self centered and dogmatic. That is why we have so much of fights in name of castes etc. Vedas never banned Ekalavya from learning from Drona or Karna fighting Arjuna. It was the law books that they followed that time, made so. We have to clearly differentiate between Vedas & law books of various times.
What we should do: I think it is our main duty to know the spiritual and social relevance of Vedas and reform hindu society to the original greatness. This will make everyone who has the willingness and ability to do sadhana to become "spiritual gurus" and not by birth.
This is one of the reasons, that the workshops on Vedas are organsied in various places. That is why i sent the invite to our PS group as members of this elite group can easily cognize and be a reform agent in the society.
Whether madan's count crosses hundred or not, this thread has crossed hundred postings. Also I see the thread is moving wildly from one topic to another. As I understood, mostly discussed topic in this thread is the caste system in Hinduism vis-à-vis other religions. Also, this thread touched some times upon the archaka issue.
Here is my 2 dollars worth ! (I think we should value ourselves a bit high).
I think caste system is unique to India. Though discrimination is prevalent all over the world on apartheid and race basis, to my knowledge caste does not exist anywhere else.
If we see the evolution of caste, caste system started with the nature of work and there was no discrimination in the early days. I think this is what Nehru Ji also said in discovery of India. Goldsmith's son became goldsmith. Merchant's son became Merchant. So on and so forth. I also believe and could see from the known history that until the end of 19th century, people strictly adhered to the nature of work that belonged to their fathers (or caste).
With the advent of British Rule, westernisation of education etc. people moved away from their heridetory work to other prospective avenues. Though people from a particular community first took the advantage, others followed the suit sooner or later.
Thus, today's caste scenario is different version altogether. Today we claim caste by birth. By profession we are different. But for a handful of few, every one else has changed their profession different from their heridetory one.
Today there is no bar from any quarter to pursue any profession (including archaka). For archaka matter, there were doubts and objections arising from several sections. My only question is when everybody can pursue any profession without any glitch, why profession of archaka is to be excluded.
If a person, truly qualified for archaka with requisite devotion, I think there should not be any bar for him/her to pursue that profession. People may say archaka is not a profession. I would beg to differ. As I said earlier archaka was also a profession entrusted to particular people like any other caste.
Somebody also raised the issue that grants were given to them by kings etc. Now those kings themselves perished. Another point is that there were several other professions attached to the temple including devadasi. What happened to all of them? Today we see temples having electric drum and bells during pooja. When things have changed to that extent why this only needs to be secluded?
By strongly denying archakaship & knowledge of Veda to others, people only cause irrepairable damage to the rich Sanatana tradition. While there is a considerable reduction from a particular community to pursue the Vedas, denying access to others will only hasten its extinction. My humble opinion is access to Vedas and God to be made more liberal, which is also good for everyone.
Change is the only thing that remains unchanged. If you do not change you dither. This is the fundamental of evolution theory.
hi i would like to share my points in connection with mr.venkateshkrishnan's view
if you are going to treat archakas as professionals then my suggestion is appointment of archakas should also be based on qualifications and like a degree of diploma in this this vedas and agamas and etc., then conduct an state wide or national level examinations like SSC or TNPSC etc., as usually with the previling nature 69% will be on quota based so the ultimate goal of putting archakas in all caste will be reached. i know the consequences of being a selected government employee :-) .
Advantages of the proposed system
a) all caste esp. majority of bc / obc and others will become archakas b) all religions can also become archakas amazing isnt it a revolution in hinduism a muslim perfoms pooja for meenakshi and a christian will perform pooja for sundareswarar.
a small problem is did u heard abt vadipatti velanganni temple some followers used to call the madurai city as a city ruled by a women demon. (leave them alone after all we are the only race in this world who can tolerate everything under the sun above the sun above the galaxy also.)
and i will personally make history the architect of hindu revolution. (if nobody tries to steel it from me)
The Membership directory is not widely / popularly available.
Also the activities of PSVP does not IMPACT the population at large not even the members though the membersip no. is considerable. We need to have a formal discussion corner to express members views rather than one - one dialogue.
For this to begin with I suggest that the coomunication to reach all the members (directory to be made available visibly)regularly. One to one communication should not be personalised in nature (example information on Cricketer Vishu vs. Gavaskar irrelevant to PSVP is not to be encouraged; Similarly in the poll , ' who beter suit to play V'thevan'). For this rules (may be flexible but should contribute to the very purpose of PSVP) to be framed. OBJECTIVES should be made explicitly. DO's And DONT's to be stipulated.
Hope my suggestions are worth considering. I will be too willing to associate myself (except for the time factor) to interact, develop a modus-operandi to make PSVP to serve its PURPOSE. yOu may contact me in this regard.
(Though I joined recently, seeing the group sites being used both in India & abroad, these are very few points that come across at the first moment)