• I have read an article from 'Theivathin Kural' that when the Great
    King, Raja Raja Cholan, performed the initial Kumbabishekam of
    Peruvudiayar, he had Othuvaar's on one side and Vedic Brahmanas on
    other side chanting Vedas.

    This has been pretty good until few decades when the clumsy
    politicians, started targeting at communities and spoilt Tamil Nadu.
    It would be very evident, if we go through 'Vanavaasam' a book by
    legendary Kaviyarasu Kannadasan, how a society got spoilt by a
    political party.

    'Aiperum Kappiyam', would have been a dream if U.Ve.Swaminathaiyar
    had not been there. Similarly Mahakavi Bharathi, a Brahmin, was
    against the odds, in his personal view, in Hindu society. Hindu's
    never resisted to worship someone with faith even though they were
    gods of different religion. Shridi Sai was born a musalman, Vabar,
    dharshan on the way to Sabari in a must, Hajiali in Mumbai witness
    many Hindu's, similarly Velankanni is visitied by many Hindu's. And
    many Hindus had been converted to Christianity, by regularly
    visiting churches.

    Is there any temple, being visited by Muslims/Christians?

    It is very evident that Hindus go beyond there religious boundaries,
    and pave a way for oneness. They had been allured for religious

    Like the Kings of Great Tamil land, their people had also allowed
    the other religion to practice. This generosity has been misused.

    This is my personal view.

    Rajendhra Cholan!
  • hi

    I recently visited madurai. my client there showed me photographs of a
    newly constructed kanaka durga temple in the outskirts getting very

    the person who built it, maintains it as the poojari and also tells an
    oracle is a MUSLIM

    I also know a lot of christians who go to thirupathi.

    but when a christian or a muslim gets into the temple as in the case
    of mary jasmine we " purify the temple"
    no sir no. we cant have it both ways

  • to dear venkat sir

    actually he was a christian when he was telling oracle in the kochadai
    muthiah samy temple.
    how come he became muslim now i dont know
    the main mistake u commited in ur last mail is she is not mary jasmine she
    is meera jasmine.
    i will not tolerate this kind of mistakes :-)
  • -Dear Ananda Natrajan
    since you are a madurai person you should know better

    but this mary jasmine vishayam is equivalent to a deiva kutram. I
    should say sorry to the hundreds of hearts broken
  • Dear All
    In the cathologic faith you can become a pope wherever your origins are in fact a cardinal from Goa was one of the cardinals in the running for the last papal elections
  • Hi
    true , the papacy is open to all ethnic groups but till now only

    three Africans are known to have occupied the papacy
    three asians too ( two from syria and 1 from palestine)

    but most propably they were members of the Roman populace situated
    there, they may have been of the Caucasoid race, and were probably
    Roman in ethnicity.
  • Dear Satish
    very interesting
    Christianity has flourished where other have not because it was flexible not by there are many sects of christianity but a jehovahs witness whether he is from israel or mexico or ramnad is the same same is for catholics...

    the same is for shia and sunni muslims

    but they coma under one large umbrella

    your arguement is ok for subgroups like saivites vaishnavaithes and sakthas but not for castes

    castes are a great achievement of india!!!!

    A nadar can be the santhome church father or so can be a dalit theres nothing stopping that but they have to be of that belief ie Jesuit,Salesian and thousand others...

    I throw the same coin at you if anyone could be a brahman by vedic rules eg valmiki and vyasa all the govt has done is do the same isnt it....

    but in the same vedic tradition eklalaivan couldnt be coached by drona or karna couldnt fight arjuna becuase they were not ksathriyas

    two standards???
  • Thanks Venkat

    there is a temple on a hill top near Mussoorie in UP or is it Uttaranchal which is called Sirkantha devi temple apparantly this is where Sakthis head fell when siva decimated her
    it is one of the navkalsthals
  • Hi all
    one of the titles of the pope is "Servus Servorum Dei" is a Latin
    phrase meaning Servant of the Servants of God. This phrase is one of
    the titles of the Pope and is used to refer to the Pope in the
    beginning address of Papal edicts.

    so much similar to " adiyaarkku adiyEn" of our land.

  • Dear Sri,

    If at all Guru Shrona, had not asked his guru dhakshina to
    Ekalaivan, and Ekalaivan with Kaurava army with his full form, then
    Bharatam, would have been much more exciting.

    Mahabaratam, is more towards Rajathanthiram. Vidhuraneethi, Yaksha
    Prashnam and there is another neethi I forgot the name of that
    munivar, all in a single itihaasam, is wonderful.

    Until Lord Krishna, actively came into life of Pandavas, everyone
    except Kaurava family were towards Pandavas.

    Rajendhra Cholan!
  • I regret the typo, it is Guru Dhrona and not Shrona.

    Rajendhra Cholan!
  • Dear Venkat
    But like misuse of power everywhere the same servants of the servants of god were masters of europe for a long time till renaissance werent they
  • -Dear Sri
    you are very right.
    when I read about the borgia family ( I think in a novel by mario
    puzo) i was appalled.
    power when centred in a small area tends to be misused.
    power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    if you happen to open the file in wikipedia about popes there is a
    seperate section on popes who were lusty and murderers.

    I just mentioned the title because it reminded me that all religions
    were endowed with good( and similar) motives.
  • Dear All,

    Wanted to give my opinion on points raised by Sridhar

    He has given the following points in his Aryan
    Dravidian mail.

    1. The Vedic Civilisation was Indian
    2. Nomadic migrants from Mid Asia You can call them
    3. And the different physical aspects of north
    indians versus south indians

    The problem starts when people start using this
    "Nomadic migrants" from Mid Asia as originaters of
    Vedic civilization. Till today there has not been a
    single proof that nomadic migrants came to India
    before Vedic period or during vedic period.

    In physical appearnce of people, there is bound to be
    difference because of climate, food and live style.
    When you take a Kashmiri, Maharashtrian and Tamilian,
    the Maharashtrian will be in in between the other two
    in colour complexion, body features etc.

    Even in US, people of New England look different from
    people of Virgina. Not now, but every during the days
    of Thomas Jefferson and Quincy Adams (around 1780s).
    Books of Thomas Jefferson and Adam disucss this. This
    difference is there even though for both New England
    and Virgina, British people were their ancestors who
    came to America around 1600s

    Second point is about "vedic rules" :

    There is an general misconception that Vedas were
    composed by Brahmins alone. Actually Vedas were
    composed by people from many communities (brahmins,
    Kshatriyas, Shudras etc). In Rig Veda, it is very
    clear people from all communities composed it and used
    it. Women also composed Vedas (Lopamudra, Vakyarumbini
    etc). Shukla Yajur Veda clearly says that Vedas are
    for every one.

    In one part of the Vedas it shows how a hunter clan
    will perform a Vedic ritual for the benefit of other

    What has gone wrong: Over period of time, we have
    come out of those Vedic values and become self
    centered and dogmatic. That is why we have so much of
    fights in name of castes etc. Vedas never banned
    Ekalavya from learning from Drona or Karna fighting
    Arjuna. It was the law books that they followed that
    time, made so. We have to clearly differentiate
    between Vedas & law books of various times.

    What we should do: I think it is our main duty to
    know the spiritual and social relevance of Vedas and
    reform hindu society to the original greatness. This
    will make everyone who has the willingness and ability
    to do sadhana to become "spiritual gurus" and not by

    This is one of the reasons, that the workshops on
    Vedas are organsied in various places. That is why i
    sent the invite to our PS group as members of this
    elite group can easily cognize and be a reform agent
    in the society.

    With regards,
  • Dear All,

    Whether madan's count crosses hundred or not, this thread has
    crossed hundred postings. Also I see the thread is moving wildly
    from one topic to another. As I understood, mostly discussed topic
    in this thread is the caste system in Hinduism vis-à-vis other
    religions. Also, this thread touched some times upon the archaka

    Here is my 2 dollars worth ! (I think we should value ourselves a
    bit high).

    I think caste system is unique to India. Though discrimination is
    prevalent all over the world on apartheid and race basis, to my
    knowledge caste does not exist anywhere else.

    If we see the evolution of caste, caste system started with the
    nature of work and there was no discrimination in the early days. I
    think this is what Nehru Ji also said in discovery of India.
    Goldsmith's son became goldsmith. Merchant's son became Merchant. So
    on and so forth. I also believe and could see from the known history
    that until the end of 19th century, people strictly adhered to the
    nature of work that belonged to their fathers (or caste).

    With the advent of British Rule, westernisation of education etc.
    people moved away from their heridetory work to other prospective
    avenues. Though people from a particular community first took the
    advantage, others followed the suit sooner or later.

    Thus, today's caste scenario is different version altogether. Today
    we claim caste by birth. By profession we are different. But for a
    handful of few, every one else has changed their profession
    different from their heridetory one.

    Today there is no bar from any quarter to pursue any profession
    (including archaka). For archaka matter, there were doubts and
    objections arising from several sections. My only question is when
    everybody can pursue any profession without any glitch, why
    profession of archaka is to be excluded.

    If a person, truly qualified for archaka with requisite devotion, I
    think there should not be any bar for him/her to pursue that
    profession. People may say archaka is not a profession. I would beg
    to differ. As I said earlier archaka was also a profession entrusted
    to particular people like any other caste.

    Somebody also raised the issue that grants were given to them by
    kings etc. Now those kings themselves perished. Another point is
    that there were several other professions attached to the temple
    including devadasi. What happened to all of them? Today we see
    temples having electric drum and bells during pooja. When things
    have changed to that extent why this only needs to be secluded?

    By strongly denying archakaship & knowledge of Veda to others,
    people only cause irrepairable damage to the rich Sanatana
    tradition. While there is a considerable reduction from a particular
    community to pursue the Vedas, denying access to others will only
    hasten its extinction. My humble opinion is access to Vedas and God
    to be made more liberal, which is also good for everyone.

    Change is the only thing that remains unchanged. If you do not
    change you dither. This is the fundamental of evolution theory.
  • hi i would like to share my points in connection with
    mr.venkateshkrishnan's view

    if you are going to treat archakas as professionals then
    my suggestion is appointment of archakas should also be based on
    qualifications and like a degree of diploma in this this vedas and agamas
    and etc., then conduct an state wide or national level examinations like
    SSC or TNPSC etc., as usually with the previling nature 69% will be on quota
    based so the ultimate goal of putting archakas in all caste will be reached.
    i know the consequences of being a selected government employee :-) .

    Advantages of the proposed system

    a) all caste esp. majority of bc / obc and others will become archakas
    b) all religions can also become archakas
    amazing isnt it a revolution in hinduism
    a muslim perfoms pooja for meenakshi and a christian will perform pooja for

    a small problem is did u heard abt vadipatti velanganni temple
    some followers used to call the madurai city as a city ruled by a women
    demon. (leave them alone after all we are the only race in this world who
    can tolerate everything under the sun above the sun above the galaxy also.)

    and i will personally make history the architect of hindu revolution. (if
    nobody tries to steel it from me)
  • -Dear Friends,

    Our group enrolement just crossed 1100 !

    Looking forward for active participation from more members.

    Welcome new members ..

    Seasons greetings... sps
  • The Membership directory is not widely / popularly available.

    Also the activities of PSVP does not IMPACT the population at large
    not even the members though the membersip no. is considerable. We
    to have a formal discussion corner to express members views rather
    than one - one dialogue.

    For this to begin with I suggest that the coomunication to reach all
    the members (directory to be made available visibly)regularly. One
    one communication should not be personalised in nature (example
    information on Cricketer Vishu vs. Gavaskar irrelevant to PSVP is
    not to be encouraged; Similarly in the poll , ' who beter suit to
    play V'thevan'). For this rules (may be flexible but should
    contribute to the very purpose of PSVP) to be framed. OBJECTIVES
    should be made explicitly. DO's And DONT's to be stipulated.

    Hope my suggestions are worth considering. I will be too willing to
    associate myself (except for the time factor) to interact, develop a
    modus-operandi to make PSVP to serve its PURPOSE. yOu may contact me
    in this regard.

    (Though I joined recently, seeing the group sites being used both in
    India & abroad, these are very few points that come across at the
    first moment)


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