> Muruga - Karthik (North Muruga) is also worth looking at.
Thanks SB
There is almost a complete disconnect between this kaarthikeya and muruga, historically. Muruga was an ancient indigenous god of Tamil land and was a superior deity. If you closely observe, you will find that he is the deity of choice for many tamils - irrespective of many other factors. He was not a son of shiva !!!!!!
At some point of time (infact this was during the sangam age itself) he had to be made as the primary link between Kotravai and Shiva (shiva was not there in the beginnings of tamil land - or atleast he was later to muruga and kotravai No direct mention of mukkan selvar in tholkappiyam, but kandhu or linga is referred) - this is the CONCEPT BEHIND SOMASKANTHA. THERE IS NO PURANIC THEME TO SUPPORT SOMASKANTHA CONCEPT AND YET EVERY PALLAVA TEMPLE HAD TO CARRY THIS ICON. Dr.Kalaikkovan beautifully brings out related theories in pen deiva vazhipaadu.
The religion Kaumaaram existed with him as the superior deity. Names like "skanda sishya" (early pallava) denote the superiority and popularity of muruga. Kalidaasa's Kumara sambhava shows that he had become a popular god of North during gupta times
Thought provoking. But you say that at some point of time, may be during sangam period this union occured. Then how can we expect references to Somaskandar in sangam literature itself. If the literature and the somaskanda concept came up in the same time, expecting a reference in Sangam literature will lead us no where.
And just because one pre sangam book, tholkappiyam didnt mention about him, how can we conclude that this concept was a later one? I have no knowledge in all these as you people have. But just trying to play a devils advocate.
Adi sankara, who is said to have lived in BC (which is approximately the same time of Sangam I presume) has sung "Sri Subramanya Bhujangam" at Tiruchendur. He sings as
{Oh! Son of Parameshwara, I see Thy six smiling faces shining like a group of swans, having gleaming side glances ever moving like a row of bees and with red lips overflowing with nectar}. "
I am not sure how relevant it is, but still there is a mention as son of parameshwara.
Moreover, if Lord shiva came in TN only during or after sangam period,how come sankara who belongs to then TN (There was no kerala nadu then, I suppose) was a staunch bhaktha of Shiva? How come shiva gained so much prominance in just 5-6 centuries? Islam is there in India for nearly 1300 years and chrishtianity also entered india 2000 years back. But still they are minorities. But Shaivism were at its peak and Tirunavukkarasar and Sambandar were the pillars of Shaivism in 6th century. Even Tirunavukkarasar sings,
"Nam KADAMBANAI eendraval panginan, then kadambai tirukkara koilan, than kadan adiyenai thanguthal en kadan pani seidhu kidappadhe"
I cant belive that the union you talk about happened so smoothly and that too in such a short period of time.
This is quite a detailed topic as you have rightly said. I can discuss things in piecemeal here but it will add up to confusion. Give me some time, I'll come back with details in a sequential & logical manner.
And as usual, most historians place Shankara in 9 AD or later:-)
is not kalidasa's kumara sambhavam a poem based on karthikeya's birth. a theory that links parvathi shiva and karthikeya'
people date kalidasa to even the first century Bc though he could be much later too.
The Birth of the kumara the war god is an epic poem in seventeen cantos. It consists of 1096 stanzas, or about 4400 lines of verse. The subject is the marriage of the god Shiva, the birth of his son, and the victory of this son over a powerful demon. The story was not invented by Kalidasa, but taken from old mythology.
for those who want a translation of this poem by Arthur W. Ryder go to this link
I think we are diverging from the issue here. Kalidasa, whatever his date maybe, singing of Kumara as son of Shiva/Parvathi is not the issue, but whether/when that Kumara/subramanya was synthesised with Muruga of Tamizh culture.
I do believe at some point, sythesis of deities as Vishnu with Maal, Pashupathi/Rudra with Shiva/Linga, Uma/Durga with Kottravai must have occurred.
Since during times of Pallavas/Kadambhas Subramanya Muruga was well entrenched in Southern country, it has to be earlier, so kalabhira or earlier.
(Aside: I think the most important period in Tamizh history must be that of Kalabhiras, some much was changed during that interrgenum)
If Sangam is early centuries of CE and the last centuries of BCE, then also I would believe that this would have happened even earlier for literature has the vedic references eevn then.
Through Kalidasa also it is borne out, The Sunga's were rulers of Magadha before Guptas and we can accept his time to be that of CG II and Kumaragupta, Pallavas were fuedatories of Satavahana Andhrabrihatiys who themselves were inheritors of Gupta's Southern territories.
(Aside: Skandagupta Karmaditya was the Gupta who resisted Saka/Hepthalite invaders to a good measure and hence hailed as Kalki)
So I would theorise that such mingling of cultures occurred much earlier than even Guptas.
i read a paper submitted by a senior UN official(retd) on a theory of muruga's sister. we NEED to discuss this.
exerpts Jyoti is a member of the Shiva family. She is a part of the eternal Godhead. When Shiva (static consciousness) united with Shakti (kinetic energy) Ganesa (sound) and Skanda (light) were born. Jyoti (light) was also born out of this union. She represents the female principle of light since she is active in creation, while Skanda represents the male principle of light. She is predominantly made of light like Skanda and is as a sister to Skanda.