kalvettu vrs copper plates
  • Dear all,

    truthfully speaking the history of the cholas has been gleaned from the
    3 or so ready made copper plates they left behind..

    compared to them kalvettus give indirect info ( basic temple grant
    infos )

    can we compare the utilty of inscriptions in chola history
  • meikeerthiyaa poikeerthiyaa
    sychophancy exists in every race

    most kings also had a inflated ego
    naturally with so many pulavars around

    kalki writes about it. when the pulavars come to see the bedridden
    sundara sola

    he laments. these people call me this and that but in reality I am not

    thirubhuvana chakravarthy the chola kings called themselves. but were
    they even capable of controlling the pandya unrest.?whats the truth?


    to start with can we please analyse the mei keerthis of the two kings
    rrc and r.c
    to check their veracity.
  • Dear Krupa

    do you mean to say the chola history people have been learning from
    to school to post graduation has been gleaned from the kalvettus only.

    the bulk i am told is from the copper plates they left behind.chola
    history studies i have learnt took a leap from the discovery of the
    plates only.

    kalvettus were highly localised and were often inscribed by people
    who were " authorised to do so" by the king.for example we find
    kalvettus in places so far away from the capital and its difficult to
    imagine that the king stood by and verified the text.
    and the ambiguity still continues. even today we find
    scholars differing on the interpretation of kalvettus.
  • We can go to the extent to question kalvettus' accuracy (due to
    spelling mistakes), not authenticity.

    Do you think anyone can subscribe to Diwakar sir's ivew that "kalvettu
    ellaam kadhaikku aavaadhu sir... adhaithaandi perisaa onnum
    irukkaadhu...."...

    History took a leap from the discovery of copper plates... but is
    taking a big leap through kalvettus. Is not it?

    Scholars may differ, but not totally to the core as Diwakar sir says.
    We cant dismiss inscriptions just like "tubelight ubayam" stuff. Who
    knows, after 500 years (if there are tubelights) even our children may
    do thesis work on Temple Management and People Contribution in Ancient
    Tamil Nadu.

    Krupa
  • dear all
    different civilisations have different ways of leaving their foot
    prints

    when i was deeply involved in learning about the delhi sultanate and
    the mughals i used to envy their diary keepers.
    wassaf tells us the exact day and time malik kafur entered madurai.we
    dont have a record of it here.
    khusrau talks about day to day happenings in delhi during that
    period.

    and then came the mughals.


    from the start babur to later mughals most were diarists themselves.
    (inspite of many being illiterate). they talked about the india- the
    country they conquered. you can get so many details about plants and
    animals from the mughals diaries.akbar nama and babur nama

    sps sir was saying that the british wrote indian history with a north
    indian bias

    that they ignored the southern history .
    i dont think so.
    the northeners had a ready made text on their history. while we did
    not.the british did what was easy.


    even now almost every temple has one kalvettu regardless of the rest

    so and so donated so many goats for lighting the lamp. this is
    perhaps the most occuring kalvettu in tamil temples.

    chola lifestyle and living as well as history is with us mainly due
    to two sources. one is the copper plates.(karanthai, thiruvalangadu
    and the leyden)
    the second is the literary mentions in books like kalingaththu parani
    (i think)
    temple kalvettus in the field of history are mainly useful for cross
    checking.we cant blame the temples either.
    perhaps if we had palaces remaining the kalvettus on them would be
    historical.but each dynasty destroyed the palaces of the others.
    but temples contain more of the local details.grants for maintainence.
  • vanakkam,

    A really interesting thread this is.

    Lots of views have been put forth by friends in this thread. What am
    going to post know is more or less an collection of all those and a
    little more.

    Copper Plates
    ====== ======

    The copper plates that have been recovered till now are a good
    source of information, there is no doubt about that. Especially, the
    plates that were found at Thiruvalangadu famously
    called 'thiruvalnagattu cheppedugal' have helped us understand so
    much about the subject that is dear to us, chozha history.

    Let me name the most prominent/important copper plates that have
    been discovered to date. Please take note that this list may not be
    exhaustive.

    1. The Anbil plates: These belong to the period of Irandam
    Paranthakan @ Sundhara Chozhan, inscribed in his fourth year.

    2. The Larger Leiden plates: These belong to the period of Rajaraja
    Chozhan, inscribed in his twenty first year.

    3. The Thiruvalangadu plates: These belong to the period of Rajendra
    Chozhan, inscribed in his sixth year.

    4. The Sarala plates: These belong to the period of Veera Rajendra
    Chozhan, inscribed in his seventh year.

    5. The Smaller Leiden plates: These belong to the period of
    Kuloththunga Chozhan the First, inscribed in his twentieth year.

    6. The Karanthai Thamizh Sangam plates: These belong to the period
    of Rajendra Chozhan, inscribed in his eighth year.


    Incidentally, the purpose of most of these copper plates is to
    record various grants! The Anbil plates talk about the grants made
    to Anirudhdhar's family. The Larger Leiden plates are about the
    grants given to the Choodamani Viharam in Nagappattinam. The
    Thiruvalangadu plates record the grants given to
    the 'Thiruvalangattudaiya Mahadevar' and 'Ammai Nachchiyar'.

    The Smaller Leiden plates are interesting. The king of Kadaram who
    was on friendly terms with the Chozhas, gave funding to build two
    viharams in Chozha nadu. One in the name of Rajarajan and another in
    the name of Rajendran. These plates record the grants given by
    Kuloththunga Chozhan to these viharams.


    More to continue...


    swetha
  • I think they are in Chennai Museum under ASI control. Public are not
    allowed to see it. If we can get permission for the same, it will be
    a feast to us.

    SPS can you please try to get permission for this. Is it possible
    first?
  • The most important 'Thiruvalangattu Cheppedugal', start with seventy
    two sanskrit poems that sings hosannas to the king and his
    ancestors! 'edath raajanya magudasireni rathneshu sasanam edath
    ranjendra cholasya parakesari varmana' is the first slokam.

    The copper plates talk about two things. First, it talks about the
    Chozha kings both early and present ones. The birth, life and valour
    of the king ie, RJC. Next, it talks about the various grants that
    were made by the king and its specifics.

    These plates helped clear lots of doubts that were existing
    previously. The most important, was the one about the war against
    the Rashtrakutas. Earlier scholars were not very sure about this
    war. Many people said the war took place during RJC's reign.
    Descriptions of the war and RRC's valour proved that the war took
    place during his reign.



    Epigraphs
    =========

    Numerous epigraphs have been found across the length and breadth of
    our country. These contain invaluable information that help us
    understand so much about the social fabric of a country.

    Where does one find a 'kalvettu'? Majority have been found in
    temples. The strong, granite walls were used to record the details
    about the temples. The palaces also should have housed plenty.
    Unfortunately, the victory celebrations of rival kings have ensured
    we don't get them in entirety.

    What will be found in the inscriptions in a temple? Definitely,
    details about the temple will be found. Now, please take note that
    the temple was the central point of a village/town in those days.
    The usage of a temple were many, apart from worship.

    Giving sheep and other such things as donations to the temple and
    the king giving grants are oft repeated inscritions that you will
    find in all the temples.

    There are so many other details that are available in temple
    inscriptions. For example, we come to know that temples served as
    banks in those days.

    Grants were given not only in the form of tax-free lands,
    concessions, jewellery and utilities for the temple. Money was also
    given in those days! A specific amount was given for some purpose to
    the temple, say to burn lamps in the Amman shrine.

    A corpus would be set up using such monetary donations. This money
    would be lend to the localites. The annual interest paid by the
    borrower will be used to burn the lamps. Sometimes, the borrower
    pays in kind. The fruits that are needed for the daily puja are
    supplied by the borrower.

    The calculation of the interest, and the rate that was applied are
    also inscribed. Interest rates were not uniform throughout the
    country, though they should have been more or less similar. Mostly,
    the rates and norms followed in an important town are followed in
    all the nearby towns.

    What I have stated above is a very small example of the information
    one can get from temple inscriptions. Gokul's 'kalvettu sonna
    kathaigal', is an excellent series written using facts available
    from temple inscriptions.

    Varalaru team should be able to pinpoint specific details that are
    available from temple inscriptions. Lavanya our 'kalvettu kaarigai',
    please take this thread forward.


    swetha
  • The Leiden Plates are actually in belgium if I am right
    Sri

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