• dear members
    though a member for long, i have not participated in writing.
    i beg to differ on the greatness of ilayarajas symphony.
    as one who listens to dharmapuram swaminathans sivapuranam( from
    which tha maestro made as many as three of his pieces) daily on mp3
    on my computer i was at places aghast.
    the singing reminded me of ilayarajas songs of the late seventies and
    eighties especially " oru jiivan paaduthu"
    we were led to beleive that all the hungarians sang. they hummed and
    sang as a choir only. and it reminded me of christmas choirs.
    i presume manickavasagar merged with the god and had no human death.
    otherwise he would be turning in his grave.
    but i think the flood of praise for the piece has set in and
    criticism will no longer be tolerated.

    ps listen to an othuvar singing the periya puranam before you get
    wild at me
    or listen to to eesanadi potri of thiruvilayadal opening song , i
    think it was p. susheelaa. even that was better
  • Dear Venkatesh,

    oru vaasagam sonnaalum thiruvaasagamaa sonnenga.. i too am of the same opinion. I think the entire spirit of thiruvasagam has been spoilt in the rendition.

    The odhuvaar's do a better job in rendering thiruvaasagam than what ilaiyaraja has done.

    No doubt, Ilaiyaraja is a Genius. But he could have chosen anyother thing to portray his genius and need not have spoilt Thiruvaasagam.

    The work is nothing but the portrayal of the Genius of Ilaiyraja than portraying thiruvaasagam as the master piece of bhakti literatures.

    The truth is that Ilaiyraja has done justice to his Talent.. But ,alas thiruvasagam has been butchered in the process..

    anyhow "ezhai sol ambalam eraadhu".. paakalaam neenga solradhu evvalavu dhooram edupadughiradhu enru..

    With Regards

    B. Dhiwakar
  • ACtually I didn't like it in the first instance.
    Infact I didn't like the idea of bringing together thiruvasakam and
    Symphony music.
    But I do like the music Raja has scored.
    I don't like to alter conventional things like bringing together
    carnatic and light music.
    Since we didn't get to hear Ilayaraja's maiden symphony music, this just
    gives an idea on how it would have been.
  • Hi Diwakar,

    I dont know how you feel that "thiruvasagam has been
    butchered." But I think he has only glorified
    Thiruvasagam by rendering it in western classical

    Last week I was in Paris and met my manager who is an
    American and came down there for the meeting. We were
    talking about this music and I presented him a CD. He
    said that he already knew about this and it was
    announced in the national radio in the USA as a first
    attempt of its kind.

    Now the whole world talks about "Thiruvasagam" which
    is only a glorification and adds a feather to our
    hats. If an ancient Tamil poetry can be rendered in a
    different musical form, how much precious it is and
    imagine the vision the poet had too.

    If you have listened the 2nd song: No one could have
    done "namachivaya vazga, nathanthal vazga" in such a
    melting way!
  • dear Venkateswaran kasirajan,

    Good that even an American is aware of that... but all that i would tell us is what is called as "MARKETING"..Nothing more than this..

    Marketing is essential to get the initial numbers going or as what they call in cinema parlance as "Good Opening".. but , still i would maintain that justice has not been done to Manickavasagar....

    that is too evident in the packaging too . if you notice the packaging contains, pictures of ilaiyaraja, and not manickavasagar. Now don't tell me that , ther is no picture of manickavasagar, whati mean a picture is that an artist's impression . if that is the case, we do not have the photo of even any god.. there is not even a representatio of Shiva even in the form of Lingam.

    My opinion is that , ilaiyaraja has been packaged rather than Thiruvasagam.

    it is a god's sent gift for Ilaiyaraja who has not been able to release his Symphony earlier. it is a chance for him to portray to the world about his Genius. , though he might not have intentionally done that.. but it has turned out to be that.

    i would still maintain that in the rendition, "THE ESSENCE OF THIRUVASAGAM HAS BEEN LOST". now don'tt ell me that even foreigners appreciate it and that is the success of it.. Let me tel you, if we want a foreigner's appreciation, then it means still we favour slavery though in a different form.

    If acceptance and applause of foreigners is essential then there are numerous other lyrics that could have been used rather than Thiruvasagam...

    With Regards

    B. Dhiwakar
  • Dear Dhiwakar,

    I accept some of your views.

    When I bought the CD, I found that the period in which
    the songs were written were not mentioned. But they
    have mentioned that it was translated into English
    during 19th Century.

    What they have done is to put icons of the chief
    artists on the back side of the cover.

    I think we can forgive errors, in the light of the
    bravity and magnanimousity of the work and Ilayaraja
    definitely deserves his portrait on the front page.

    There are some people who classify everything as
    'marketing' and dont look beyond that. I guess even
    when Manicavasagar published his work, there might
    have been some critics who remarked it as marketing...
    What is cheap marketing and what is literature class
    is decided by generations to come.. Today we stand
    here rendering Thiruvasagam in western classical
    music, that glorifies the poet a thousand years later.
  • Ok Guys, we need not criticize two geniuses Manickavasagar and
    Ilayaraja. We are not qualified for that.
    Different people have different opinion. Even Thiruvalluvar was criticised.
    Let us stop here.
  • Let me say it before I analyse it, I loved the music, it is a great

    Now the Criticism.

    Instead of the music being a setting for Thiruvasagam, I felt that
    irrespective of the lyrical composition, the music would have still
    been great. So it is just Ilaiyaraj's musical artistry that comes
    through and not whatever is the individual's souls expectation of
    Thiruvasagam's spiritual essence. But then it could be argued that
    each soul vibrates to a different tune. If so, then a "maestro"
    should be able to touch all such souls in one way or the other.

    Media appreciation: It is not practical in today's world to ignore
    the media or a global market. Every era has its own media and market
    which do decide the success of a creation.

    Take for example Sekkiyazhar, he just elaborated in more reachable
    form the existing works a Thiruthondar thogai/thiruvandhadhi. Thanks
    to that he is canonised as the 64th Nayanmaar. In fact I would vote
    to make A.P Nagarajan as the 65th Nayanmaar, for he did the same work
    as Sekkiyar, for his "Thiruvilaiyadal", "Thiruvarutselvar" etc., are
    the media from which many of this generation had thier initiation
    into the saivite canon.

    I remember that many of the common people had a new found
    appreciation of Devaram after "Thalapathy" was released with "Kunitha
    Puruvamum.." implanted in the Rakkamma song.

    Shankar's Kadalan had a song from "Kutrala Kuravanji" - "Indariyo.."
    And when "Oothukadu Venkatsubbiyers Alaipayudhey" featured in
    Maniratnam's movie, I heard a comment in the theatre " Vairamuthu
    ennama ezhutharuru paa" about that song :)

    So I am all for marketing old wines in new bottles, it will be a gain
    to all parties concerned. My apologies to the purists.
  • Dear All
    I am one of the unfortunate ones who cannot grab the CD like those fortunate ones ike in Madras I love music isten to Classic FM every day and when I listened to the samples of the Oratoria...I must confess I was impressed...I knew Ilayarajas voice but stilll if you forget that and listened to it as a musical rendition you really are proud in your hearts that its done by an Indian that too a tamilian....

    How many Tamils have listened to tiruvasagam? Sorry one of the members had said about Manickavasagar turning in his grave....Sir do you thing oduvars recital wpould have stimulated the world to ask what was thiruvasagam????THINK friend before just writing what your fingers feel like.....

    No tamil has to agrre to Ilayaraja's Genius in Music....

    Listen to music as music ...not as thiruvasagam.....etc....Please
  • Dear VK
    Yet again you have demonstrated the Wisdom....
    There this story about the Indian crbs thats what I can say about those criticising a new venture,,....
    I do not knoew so much factual knowledges about Classical music....but I feel that my heart melts when i listen to certain pieces be it MSS,Chopin,Hariprasad Chaurasia,Ilayaraja or Bach.....
    Music should reach your heart if it does that thats a sucess
  • I agree.

    If you drop off comparisons and ignore the background of the
    lyricists/composer/style etc., and listen to it as a just music, it
    is an elevating experiance.

    Then if you do want to analyse it, keep it mind that music like all
    arts is very individualistic and hardly will 2 sould expect the same
    from a creation or enjoy the same essence.

    Though it really did not fulfill my expectation of a musical
    rendering of Thiruvasagam. Objectively I am grateful to Raja for this
    joy he gave due to this work.

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