More on Tamil History
  • Dear SPS,

    Yes you are correct in saying that we are influenced by the outsiders
    and got spoiled to the core. Politics in India is at its worst.
    Kamaraj and Kakkan are mere dreams for the present and forthcoming
    generations. Often I used to feel that Indians have adopted all the
    bad qualities from the west and neglected the goods in them. Where as
    the westerners are slowly attracted to the Indian culture and
    adopting our lifestyle. It wont be a surprise if after 100 years
    someone in US would have patented the ayurvedha, Yogasanas(to some
    extent Yoga is already patented in the US),siddha and copyrighted
    the vedas and upanishads as they have patented needm, basmathi etc.
    They are probing into each and every aspect of Indian history,
    tradition, culture,values etc. which really makes us Proud. But on
    the other hand we Indians take up their style and the youngsters are
    crazy of discotheques, bars,pubs, dating, divorce, etc etc..10 years
    back drinking was considered bad. Today smoking and drinking are not
    considered bad in our society. New terminologies have evolved for
    substanciating it - 'Socializing'..I am afraid where the country is
    going. I have taught on this and tried to find an answer many a
    times, but at last I was convinced with only one point which answers
    or rather was answered in great detail in our ancient scripts -
    "KALIYUGAM". Only this word convinces me for all the happenings.
    So if this is what the great lord, the master of PS, the master of
    all of us - brahadeeswara has written the screenplay as, no one can
    change it.

    I think I have deviated the topic a lot. Ok. Coming the Tiruvaranga
    Ula..yes its really touching to hear about these. Many a things are
    not know to all. Ranga was very much popular and being a kshetram
    this story is quite know to the masses. but there are several other
    such instances. People belonging to the North Arcot district might
    know this. My native, or rather my parents naitve is Vellore. Though
    our native is a kukgramam named Kadaladi near polur, we generally say
    vellore is our Native. Though I dont go there often, when I visit
    occasionally the 'Jalakanteswarar' temple, popularly know as 'Kotai
    Koil' because it is situated inside a big fort, I forget myself
    seeing the beauty of the lord Jalakanteswara. There is a big temple
    inside the fort premisis. The fort is a beauty to watch and I think
    its built by the vijayanagara kings.The sculptures are a boon to
    watch. The kalyana mandapam is so beautiful that the britishers
    wanted to take it to England and even marked every piece of the stone
    to disassemble and reassemble it. But fortunately the ship which was
    coming to India to take this masterpiece wrecked and drowned in the
    sea and hence the idea was discarded. Probably this could also be a
    place for us to visit.My father told me the story that, during the
    muslim invastion the muslim rulers planned to destroy the temple and
    fearing it the lingam was moved away from the temple. Its said that
    the lingam was protected by a family in Sathuvachari, near vellore
    for more than 150 years without anyone knowledge. In 1980's the then
    collected Belliappa wanted to bring the lingam back and after a great
    struggle the lingam was brought back to the temple and donations were
    collected to renovate the temple. Thus the lord was hiding without
    any pooja for nearly 150-200 years.

    Another incident in Dindigul,near Madurai. There is a famous Abirami
    Amman temple. The beauty is, this temple has two god and two
    godesses. Abirami amman and Padmagirisan, Gnanambikai and I forgot
    the lords name. Why because, it was originally Gnanmbikai and the
    lord and Abirami and Padmagirisan were at the fort atop the hill.
    Tipu sultan, as usual wanted to destroy the temple and pushed the
    lord and goddess from the hilltop. Since it has to be kept somewhere,
    the people protected it in the temple below and they got the
    prominance sidelining the original ambal and lord. So I think there
    are several stories around the country like this. Dadikombu near
    Dindigul is a visual treat. The perumal koil mandapam has life size
    sculptures(nearly a dozen) which needs 1000 eyes to watch. Such a
    beautiful and lively sirpams.

    The concept of organising Tamil Nadu history is a great one. I think
    the whole group will be interested to read that. Either it can be
    topic in the group mail,or an article in Again I get
    back to my earlier suggestion. Can we go from a macro view to the
    micro level. Meaning, instead of going by chronological order and
    going through the details at every stage, wont it be beneficial if we
    get a macro view of the history from the sangam period till date and
    then go through the details one by one. This is just my suggestion,
    becuase if we keep on repeating the same thing again and again, it
    becomes easier to remember, rather than reading one at a time. This
    is nothing but our Kalki's style. In PS he keeps on reapeating whose
    son is who and who did what on and off so that we get the perfect
    sequence. Its just a suggestion and if feasible, the researchers can
    think on it.

    I think I have taken up lot of your time and sorry for the same.
    Catch you all soon.
  • Hi Satish,
    I just couldn't believe Tipu Sultan wanted to destroy a temple. He is
    said to be a scholar in both Hinduism and Islam and respected both
    religions equally.
    I didn't derive this info from the "Sword of Tipu Sultan" but had read
    it in some article.
    When he was in hide out, he used to eat the prasadam from the
    Srirangappattanam temple and has done so many iriyilis to that temple.
    Just can't believe that, he tried to destroy a temple in Dindigul.
    Atleast he stood out differently from others, who embarked on
    demolishing temples.

    There is another story, related to Nellai Appar kovil in Tirunelveli.
    Actually this temple gives equal importance to both Partvati & Shiva.
    Both sannathis are big enough.
    There is a small sannathi called Anavathar Sannathi. Actually he is no
    god, but an actualy human being, who lived some 200-250 years ago. His
    name was Anwar-Ud-Din. He has also given a lot of donations and iraiyili
    to the temple. So the temple authorities in those days, have opened a
    sannathi for him and the name "Anwar-ud-din" became Anavarathar.

    Also there is a place called 'Murugan kurichi' in Tirunelveli (it still
    exists). Not so many know that the idol of the "Tiruchendur murugan (I
    am not sure, whether it was the ursavar or the moolavar)" was kept there
    for some months by the dutch, when they tried to smuggle the statue to
    Holland. It so happened that the ship they carried the idol sunk in the
    sea and I believe the rest of story is known to all.
  • Actually I don't know the rest of the story.. Can someone elaborate please?
  • Hi Vijay,

    Yes, many Indians like you and some years back even I, belive that
    Tipu Sultan was neutral and was a great patriot. He fought against
    the british for freedom etc. etc. As I wrote earlier, thanks to the
    congress, communist and erstwhile 'secularists' of India,the history
    which we read are not correct. Tipu Sultan is no great hero as we see
    him nor he is not different from any other Muslim Ruler. (I am not
    creting a thread on Relion or secularism or religions tolerance etc.
    But just talking History). He has demolished thousands of Temples in
    Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil nadu. While doing all these atrocities,
    it seems one astrologer told him that he has done a great lot of sins
    and if he touch Srirangapatnam temple, he is doomed. So to do
    prayachitam for his sins he has to give irailis to Srirangapatnam
    temple and thats why he left that temple alone. He has killed 10lakh
    hindus in Kerala Tamil nadu border alone. Through out his province he
    has killed millions of Hindus who refused to convert to Islam and has
    forced millions to get converted to Isalm. Probably the story of him
    eating koil prasadam is, pasi vandha pattum parandhu pogum. correcta.

    Just another titbit. In the world arena people talk about the
    homicide done by the German against the Jews. Till date lots of
    exhibitions are conducted to remind us of the jews fate. You know one
    thing, in the entire world, if any one community has underwent
    harrassment from another country, it is the attrocities committed by
    the Muslim Rulers against Hindus in the past 10 decades. The number
    runs in Millions and may be even to Billion. In kashmir alone in just
    one decade 4 million hindus have been killed. An entire community has
    been erased from kashmir valley. The largest ever Homicide is the
    killing of Hindus by the Muslim rulers in the past. But these facts
    are not revelied because India is SECULAR..hahaha..and our
    Governments will always encourage this because they are Secular...

    Tipu fought against british not because he was a patriot and wanted
    to Save india from foreign clutches. If he had thought so he would
    not have joined hands with French to fight british. I think French
    are also any other king he wanted power and
    wanted to rule his province and thats why he fought against the
    British joining hands with French. If he was against foreigners
    invasion, he would not have entertained French.

    So we should not get carried away by what we read and hear as Indian
    History. As SPS correctly said, we have to reinvent our History.

    I think even before climbing the Sabari Malai, people go to vavar
    masudhi at the foot hill..exceptions are always there my friend.
  • Hi Niranjan,

    Yes, its the basic right of any individual to know about his/her
    country's true history. But not in India. Because as long as this so
    called secular forces long for the minority votes, ture history will
    never come to limelight. Secularism has lost its meaning in India.
    Personally I would say India is not at all secular. Secularism, as we
    all understand is treating all religions equal. But even today you
    would have seen in news papers, that the political leaders went to
    Iftar party conducted by the Muslims. Its nothing wrong in attending
    religious parties. We too, get sweets and other eatables during
    Ramzan from our Muslim neighbours. But, for instance take our
    Kalaignar or any other DK descent...he criticises Bagavad Gita,
    ridicules Hindus and Hindu beliefs and behaviour, talks ill about
    Hindus, tells the world that 'Kadavalai kumbidugiravan kattumirandi'
    and at the same time goes to Iftar Parties with the traditions
    muslim 'kulla' on their Head. If they are really secular, they should
    criticise the ills of all the religions, attend parties of all the
    religions etc. Does this happen in our country?? The politicians fool
    the people in the name of secularism. The great 'Periyar' E.V.R. who
    started the DK and 'nathigam' movement, served as 'dharmakartha' for
    a very big temple(i dont remember the name of the temple) through out
    his life.. dont you think this is the height of Hipocracy.. and the
    worst thing is people all followed and following him like crazy. I
    have heard the E.V.R used to take processions with slipper garlands
    around 'lord Rama's pictures and other Hindu Gods picutes. Will he or
    any other politician can dare to do this with a jesus picture or any
    Muslim Picture. If they did, they will not reach their home after the

    As long as such Politicians exist, India can never improve and never
    can be secular and can never get its history right. I am not against
    the minorities or I am not against the policies for them. But I want
    it to be done for the actual cause of uplifting them and not as a
    means of Political weapon. But unfortunately, the politicians take it
    as a weapon against the masses. Why to go for the history of 1000
    years. We see distortion of history or historical facts in our
    current lifetime itself. Its not only the politicians but also the
    media which does this for their benefit.

    All would have heard the news that, more than a year back, the
    allahabad court ordered for an excavation by the ASI at the Ayodhya
    site to see whether any Ram temple existed there or not. Daily news
    were carried about the number of trenches dug and the work in
    progress, but the findings were kept secret. The work went on for
    nearly 2 months and after that no news was let out. It was suppressed
    without any noise. Do you think if nothing had been found, the
    politicians and the so called seculars would have kept quite. They
    would have made a heu and cry saying that no Ram temple was there and
    the excavation has proved it and would have lashed the BJP, Sang
    Parivar, RSS etc. So any person with common sense can deduce that
    something fishy had been found which they dont want to reveal. It
    need not be seen in a religious perception. If something old has been
    found, let it be even a mosque or anything, would we all appreciate a
    historical monument? Even is nothing was there, why cant they make
    the news transparent?

    Another thing is the Gujarat riots..the media gave a great coverage
    and showed the plight of the muslims who were victims of the riots. I
    myself shed tears seeing those photos. But again, if 1000 people have
    died, do you think all the 1000 were muslims. Its very much obvious
    that when two groups class, both groups will have damages equally. If
    1000 people died, atleast 400-500 should have been Hindus, right.
    Then why didnt the media show the Hindus who sufferred. When Best
    Bakery case is given so much Hype and Importance, why not the Godhra
    Train carnage given its due importance. If 21 muslim people were
    burnt alive in Best Bakerty,which is obviously attrocious and
    barbaric, is it not attrocious and barbaric to burn 50 Hindus in a
    train compartment? Why doesnt the mediat talk about this. Becuase the
    politicians want vote, the media wants business and so create
    sensational news(Remember James Bond move 'Tomorrow Never Dies') The
    worst is, the main culprit in the Godhra carnage have escaped three
    weeks back from the police custody.

    The above two very recent incident shows how the fact are detoriated
    which becomes History in the future. these Happen because, Hindus, by
    the name of the Religion Sanathana Dharma, are very tolerant and
    submissive. Hinduism is the only religion in the world, which doesnt
    preche or convert orforce others to convert into Hinduism. (even
    Buddist and Jains who are know for Non-violence, preche and convert)
    What I mean to say is, the politicians takes Hindus for granted and
    thats the main reason for detoriating the history. We can never get
    unbiased, true and real history. Probably for our personal interest
    we can probe and learn things. We have great scholars in this group
    who are ready to publish their research materials and this way we can
    learn our history to some extent and that too for our personal
    satisfaction. We cant ever dream of reading the unbiased history in
    the official published prints.

    The article of Taj Mahal, which you have sent has been circulating
    for years. I think this is a hoax. Probably, a hindu temple might
    have existed at that location which shah jahan would have demolished,
    but Taj as is cannot be a Hindu Temple.

    Friends, I strogly belive that we can enrich our knowledge only by
    sharing it. Only through discussion, we can learn more. So I write
    based on my readings and thought process, and want to validat them.
    So if you find anything wrong in whatever I write, I will be glad to
    get corrected. This is not just for this mail, but for whatever I
    write in this group.
  • **************
    The great 'Periyar' E.V.R. who
    started the DK and 'nathigam' movement, served as 'dharmakartha' for
    a very big temple(i dont remember the name of the temple) through out
    his life.. dont you think this is the height of Hipocracy.. and the
    worst thing is people all followed and following him like crazy. I
    have heard the E.V.R used to take processions with slipper garlands
    around 'lord Rama's pictures and other Hindu Gods picutes. Will he or
    any other politician can dare to do this with a jesus picture or any
    Muslim Picture. If they did, they will not reach their home after the

    This is the real outcome of reading the biased history. People who followed
    periyar wrote about him and people who were against periyar also wrote about
    him. Haven't you heard 'Parisuththa aaviyil idli veguma?' , '786 allah-vin
    kaidhi number-a?' , 'Kuzhandhai petra mary eppadi kanniyaaka irukka
    mudiyum?' and all? Why do you see periyar as a 'Kadavul maruppaalar' alone?
    Beyond that, he did lot of reforms which people refused to think at all in
    those days. 'Pen kalvi', 'Vidhavai marumanam', 'Sikkana vaazhvu', 'Jaadhi
    ozhippu', 'Kallunnaamai' etc. Unfortunately, some of his followers became
    selfish. E.V.R was the chairman of Erode municipality and had to treat all
    the people (irrespective of their belief on god) equal. That's why he served
    as the dharmakartha of the temple during that period. It was not through out
    his life. The person who became the chairman after periyar became the
    dharmakartha of that temple.

    Don't see DK movement through Kalaignar and other politicians alone. They
    are not the only people in Dravidian movement. It is like saying 'Since
    Premananda is not a good person, all the people in hindu religion is not
    good'. DK which periyar started was just a social and non profit movement
    and not the political party.
    Do not decide anything based on the one sided information. 'Epporul yaar
    yaar vaayk ketpinum apporul meypporul kaanpadhu arivu'. But, unfortunately,
    we accept all the information as true which are favorable to us, without any

    Sorry to post an irrelevant message to the group.
  • Its true Kamal. But, you know if somebody worshiped like "the only great soul" who brought pahutharivu and vilippunarchi, then people who knows little more about history will definitely provoke that.

    Points of Sathish are just like that.

    By giving much biased worship to EVK, we forget services of Subramania siva, Swaminathan, Bharathiar, CHithambaram, Rajaji and Kalki and many more are there who sacrificed their life for this Tamil & Tamil nadu. We easiliy avoiding/forget them. You know why? the media and mass are with them. They grow hatred. They divide the people for their political gain.

    Sathishs views are understandablr. Its not kind of hatred. And in the same time you are also correct.
  • We can also list the contributories who build the tamil & tamilnadu.
    I will start with

    1) Builder of 'Veeranam lake'.
    2) Our great Chola kings who developed rich culture.
  • Dear Kamal,

    Can you please inform me the reason for the 'Poonool aruppu porattam' against the brahmins? Any genuine reasons for the same. I agree that Brahmins went too far as far as untouchability is concerned. But Bharathi himself being one, was against this. For others I can say its a case of sour grape and cheap publicity.

    Leave the Brahmins, has all the other castes intermingled with each other. So whats the reason that only the Brahmins were targeted. Had it been any other caste, then probably that would have been the end of their life. Since it was Brahmins, they opted not for violence.

    This is just like the concept of secularism of our so called leaders in our state.
  • Dear Ananth,

    If we start talking about the politicians and the so called
    seculars,theres no end to it. We all know they are hipocrats. I
    though that we are deviating from the topic and SPS has spelt it out.
    So I stopped at that. What you say is 100% correct and I too voiced
    the same concern. Though Kamal gave some instances of Periyars words
    on Christians and Muslims, I think those are very limited. All
    these 'seculars' target only the Hindus and especially the Brahmins.
    Because again as I already said, Hindus are very tolerant and wont
    protest for anything. I think lets put a fullstop here and get back
    to our glorious past. Recent history is not glorious in any aspect.

    Just another titbit..Dont know how far its true..I heard it from very
    genuine people who are ardent tamil scholars or marabilakiya fanatics
    and hence assume its true.....after 1975 or so (somewhere in the mid
    of 70's) no Brahmin has got a Ph.D in Tamil, because no guide of
    Tamil accepts a Brahmin student as a research scholar under him/her.
    Courtesy, DK movement. They feel Brahmins dominate in all fields and
    dont want them to shine in Tamil literature. Secularism at its best..
    Please correct me if this information is wrong.
  • HI Satish,
    Everyone has the right to know about the TRUE history and not distorted
    figures. But at the same time, what we learn should not create hate
    against others.
    Agreed, Moghuls destroyed a lot of temples. At this age of 25+, when we
    learn about it, we have enough wisdom to digest that fact. My blood
    boiled when I read vanthaarkaL venRaakaL. But just imagine, at a tender
    age of 11-15 when we are taught that Moghul rulers destroyed all
    temples, DK movement unleashed a hate against Brahmins etc etc. won't it
    create a feeling of hatred against them. It sows a seed of hate in your
    heart, which can never be plucked out. And imagine you have a good
    friend, who is a muslim and when you 2 study the same TRUE history in
    school, won't you have a feeling of hatred against him as well.
    As such, the Indian community is divided, thanks to the bitter caste
    politics and reservation. Do we want to create more division by
    preaching the dark ages of the history.
    Agreed literary works like kamba Ramayanam, Thiruvaasakaam, Thevaram
    etc. were not given so much importance like the silappathikaaram etc.
    But interested people can always learn that and do research on them.
    There is no dearth of topic in history to be researched upon.
    If we have learnt about Shah Jahan as a person, who built Taj Mahal, so
    be it. Let us have good and optimistic opinion about him. Instead of
    remembering him as a guy who never allowed construction of a single
    temple across him empire. So whatever history we have learnt, let us say
    is TRUE, if not COMPLETE.
  • Dear Veena,

    Thanks for the support.

    As you said, this is a baseless claim. Most of the
    Tamil pundits in schools and colleges are Brahmins
    only in school.

    Brahmins have done so much to Tamil literature and the
    Tamil population expects them to continue to be so and
    carry forward Tamil tradition and thinking.
  • Hi all,

    Please have some more pickles. These are little

    Many people who want praise EVR will safely say not to
    mix the present day politics and politicians with his
    policies. They know pretty well that the DK and DMK
    politics cannot add any respect to EVR. But these
    politicians quote very often EVR as their mentor etc.
    How can we detach the responsibility from EVR for the
    deeds of his disciples? EVR propagated unparlimentary
    methods, he declared our divine Thamizh as barbarian,
    insulted all the literatures, attacking individuals
    not for their deeds but for their caste, etc. etc.,
    Many scholars from Thiruvalluvar, Avvaiyaar, etc is
    propagating the social reforms he insisted. The famous
    "saathi irandozhiya vearillai....". But none followed
    the atrocious ways EVR adapted. Worst became very
    worst with castism deep rooted and followers of EVR
    exploiting all the adversaries for their votes.
    One thing is certain that the seed for the words and
    deeds of these disciples are from EVR only and they
    themselves are vouching for this every now and then.
    A good tree may give rotten fruits but not wrong
  • the mass and media r with evr and the likes becos he worked for the masses. hardly my grannys generation knows abt bharati r rajaji r kalki becos their work was limited in a small circle. i dont think anybody worship periyar but many among the older generation revere him for wat he did for them. people like me r talkin here becos of periyar. but the same cannot said of todays politicians.
  • ************************
    Can you please inform me the reason for the 'Poonool aruppu porattam'
    against the brahmins? Any genuine reasons for the same. I agree that
    Brahmins went too far as far as untouchability is concerned. But Bharathi
    himself being one, was against this. For others I can say its a case of sour
    grape and cheap publicity.

    Leave the Brahmins, has all the other castes intermingled with each other.
    So whats the reason that only the Brahmins were targeted. Had it been any
    other caste, then probably that would have been the end of their life. Since
    it was Brahmins, they opted not for violence.

    This is just like the concept of secularism of our so called leaders in our

    FYI... I am not the Kolgai Parappu Seyalaalar for DK and also against some
    of their activities.

    Even all 5 thamizh professors in our college who are brahmins got their both
    M.Phil and P.hd in Thamizh during 1975-1980. My father is a thamizh pandit
    and some of his classmates and colleagues who are brahmins did P.hd after
    graduation. It's a baseless claim.

    Friends, we cannot prove or disprove any controversial activity happened in
    past based on the evidences available at present. It is like asking '2-m
    ulagap pOrukku mun oruvan Hitler-ai kolai seydhirunthaal, avan nallavanaa,
    kettavanaa?' We cannot say what periyar did was right or wrong in those days
    based on the biased writings what we have now.

    This is one of the never ending topics and let us put a full stop here.

    Uurugaai saappittadhu podhum. Konjam Ice cream saappiduvom. Have anyone
    visited Maaligaimedu near GKC? There is a collection of sculptures found
    during the excavation is kept near the site. In that, there is a broken
    sculpture of a lady deity and there is a board written as 'Oru Pen Silai'.
    'Aahaa! Idhallavo kandupidippu!!' Paarthaalee adhu oru pen silai enRu
    therikiradhu. Piragu edharkayya oru board?
  • Oops.. interesting tamil history thread got hijacked by Periyar

    My 2 cents..
  • Oops.. interesting tamil history thread got hijacked by Periyar

    My 2 cents..
  • Dear Kamal,

    I am in agreement with you..

    Re Periyar EVR, even Rajaji and Mahaswamigal criticised only (Hindu)
    Kadavul maruppu Iyakkam ... Other social reformations were need of the era.
    Not that others did not care for reformations .. He was able to and
    highlight also.. Rajram Mohan Roy, Thilakar and like, carried forward in
    other parts of India ...

    Incidentally, Arignar Anna has written more on Periyar marrying Maniammai ..
    DMK was formed because of this single issue. DK never became the political
    party.. it confined as a social reforming outfit..

    There is difference in approach between Anna and Kalaignar ..
    But what all of them had in common was : Before they criticised anything,
    they went into the strengths of the Movement / Object which was
    criticised ...

    Those who were criticised, were not defending properly or could not
    defend... (for lack of knowldge in their own faith)...

    Recently when Ramagopalan presented Bagavath Gita to Kalaignar, he also
    presented a review of Gita from the DK perspective written by

    How many of us have really read the materials of those whom we are
    criticising now .... ? I do not want to get into such quick sand without
    proper armoury ... and the platform ... different ..

    Re descedents of Chozhas, about eight years back a Wedding Invitation of a
    Mannargudi Family proclaimed them as descedents of " Perumbidugu
    Mutharayas.. " .....

    fondly, sps
  • ************************************************************************
    methods, he declared our divine Thamizh as barbarian, insulted all the
    literatures, attacking individuals not for their deeds but for their
    caste, etc. etc., Many scholars from Thiruvalluvar, Avvaiyaar, etc is
    propagating the social reforms he insisted.
    He never said tamizh language as barbarian language. This is what he
    said about tamizh language.
    # The love of one's tongue is the foremost of all loves that are
    required of the people born in our land. He that has no love for his
    tongue certainly has no love for his land. A nation functions on the
    basis of the love for one's language. So it is my prayer that Tamil's
    love for their mother-tongue should grow.

    As Mr. SPS and kamal said many people here criticise by reading some
    biased one sided report.
  • Dear All,

    Its nice to share views and learn things, clarify our views etc.
    Initially when I joined
    this group a month back, I was quizzed a bit because only a couple of
    the members were writing. Now many have joined and pouring in their
    thoughts and I am happy that I am able to learn more daily and
    clarify things. As I wrote yesterday, only if we share our thoughts
    we can enrich our knowledge. It would be even great if others also
    start writing, because around 15 members out of you think
    its a good response....come on friends, shed your inhibitions and
    speak out. We have knowledgable people over here who can clarify our
    doubts, thoughts and views. Only thing which grows by sharing, is

    GOod debate of cholas, EVR etc. Yes there are goods and bads in all.
    Even I am not perfect, neither the others.I am not protesting anyone
    or supporting anyone. Thought I have put a full stop yesterday
    itself, but today i found many more mails. As a last mail on this
    topic, I wish to share something. No one is totally right and no one
    is totally wrong here. We are just sharing our views and hope the
    maturity level is always high. No ones intention is to hurt others,

    Re.EVR, I am not touching much on this topic, because I have not read
    much about his activities.All news I have are hearsay. But good that
    everyone accepts that he has gone to extremes, which he could have
    avoided. Yes the social reforsm made by him are highly comendable and
    we should admit that.

    Re true history creating hatred...I think vijay wrote on this. Yes
    what you said is correct. Saying that so and so destroyed so many
    temples, etc. surely creates hatred. I am not saying that these
    should be taught at school. Its pity that when we say reading
    history, it is confined only to school text books. What we read in
    school is not the end of History..I think everyone will accept this
    point. If that is so, then our group looses its purpose. why are we
    discussing history here if we learn everything at school?

    I only say that, when we talk about the greatness of only the muslim
    rulers in our text book, the greatness of Hindu rulers should also be
    inclued. I already wrote earlier that the syllubus starts with
    ancient India at the 1st standard and ends with British India at
    10std. So the students remember only the Moghul and British India and
    no one knows about the greatness of other heros like RR, Rj or
    Ashoka. As I said,the picture is painted as if the arts and
    architecture flourished only during the Moghul rule. we all know its
    not entirely true. Every king has contributed wisely for such purpose
    and due respect should be given to them all. When you say Shah Jahan
    built Taj Mahal, also tell that the Great RR built the Big Temple.
    group we all know how powerful the Chola Navy was. RJ was able to
    cris cross the Bay of Bengal humpteen number of times to capture the
    countries overseas, which no Muslim Rulers have done. Why this is not
    highlighted in the Indian History, where as Aurangzebs conquest till
    Afghanistan alone is trumpeted.Its politics History to apease the

    Coming to the point of you said, reading such things at a
    mature age will do no harm. But its not available to the masses. If a
    Ayodhya excavation occurs, if the US satellite shows Saraswathi river
    bed, why dont the ASI or the great historians probe and try to find
    out the truth, instead of sticking to the old history told by the
    westerners? If we think talking the truth will create hatered, then
    the country will never live in peace.
    Take the instance of Nazis homicide of the Jews. Even after 60 years,
    everynow and then, the holocaust is remembered and reverberated
    throughout the world. Everyday its discussed somewhere in the world.
    Exhibitions are held to show the sufferings of the victims of the
    Holocaust. Every single person who died in the gas chamber is a
    hero/heroine. Their names are highlighted now and then. World class
    magazines write about a simple person who died in the holocaust. Does
    this create hatred against the Germans? No country or no community
    has hatred against the Germans today. The Jews remember the holocaust
    and showcause the world only becase, they dont want the fact to be
    forgotten and no such Incident should occur in the furute. They dont
    have a feeling of hatred against the Germans. On the other hand,
    Germans remember the holocaust every now and then, because they
    repent for what has been done and wanted to remind the world that
    such things should not happen again. They have a sense of guilt which
    they repent for. Jews and German are not fighting and killing each
    other after the Holocaust.

    But what happens in India..The Hindu Holocaust is much more higher
    than the Jews holocaust. Then why no exhibition is conducted to
    showcause that. Outside India, why even within India no one knows
    this fact. Atrocities against the Hindus in kashmir valley and the
    Islamic militancy is always on the rise only because like the
    Germans, they dont have the sense of Guilt. Its not their fault.
    Germans feel guilty because the Jews highlight the fact and the whole
    world accepts it. Where as in India no one highlights the fact and so
    there is no full stop to violence. Graham Stains and his sons..three
    christian lives hold dear to all the politicians, but not even a
    single politician or organisation in Inida,except Jayalalitha,
    protested and condemned the Godhra Train carnage where 59 Hindus were
    chared to death. Unless one community realises and repents for their
    fault, there can be no peace. It holds good for Hindus, Christians or
    muslims. But this doesnt happen in India. Whatever happen, the Hindus
    are at the receivng end. If backlashing the upper caste and
    sidelining them saying that in older days the uppercaste suppressed
    the lower caste, and giving utmost attention to the lower caste is
    justified (ofcourse its justfied and acceptable by all) then the same
    holds good for stopping the Islamic fanatics by saying the fact that
    Hindus have been suppressed for 10 decades. Why no one talks about
    that? Because its votebank politics. This is what I mean by unbiased
    open History.This will and can never happen in India.

    'History Repeats Itself', but some history should not repeat itself
    for which the unbiased History is a must. The main reason for Hindu
    muslim divide in India, as far as I am concerned, the supression of
    the facts. The north Indians have much more hatred against Muslims
    than the south Indians. The riots mostly take place in North rather
    than south. Why? Have anyone given a thought on this...because it was
    they who have sufferred at the muslim hands fo

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