In "Kadal Pura" of Saandilyan's.. After, the great Karunaakara Thondaimaan entered the heart of Kaanchana Devi. There is a dialogue between Karunaakaran, Kaanchana Devi and Gunavarman, the so said king of Sri Vijaya Saamraajaya.
There comes a discussion on reasons why Sri Vijaya is called Swarnabhumi, Poorva desam...etc..
I don't remember the exact words as I am out of my city now. I am sorry.
Relating it to Rajendhra's Kadaaram conquest, this might be true. As Rajendhra's intentions was to gain victory until Ganges. He might not have crossed it.
But, as Kadal Pura, itself a imagionary story. I doubt its validity.
On Mauryas expenditions..
It seems during the times of Bindhusaara, th son of Great Chandragupta Maurya, there was a great famine and our Chera, Chola,Pandya..gave them the food and refused to get anything in return. And hence it was promised that they will not invade Tamizh Naadu.
But, I have also read, I dont remember the book name, that all the three great kings of Tamil Naadu, joined together, to check Ashoka's invasions.
As an individual who introduced me to this Group for the first time I am still very thankfull to you.
"Saanthimaaththivu" - I tried to identify same from various original historical sources, but failed in my efforts. Continuing with my further efforts to locate same.
As mentioned by you - ...People have been saying like "yet another island in arabian sea".... -, we have to look for same in that direction. The next closest to the Maldive Islands in the west is Seycelles Islands. But we still have no positive evidence to say anything on same.
Its really great to get so much information from the learned lot. Thanks a lot to Sri Hari, SPS and others who share their wealth of knowledge with the group. More such informations will enlighten the group members. Thanks a lot for your service rendered.
While talking about all these, it gives gret pride to think that, in the history, Tamil nadu was never been captured by anyone, except the europeans. Invasion of Tamil Nadu by the europeans is a different story of traitors and decevers. Till the mughal rule, Tamil Nadu was never been captured by anyone. Ashoka was able to capture the whole of India upto Afghanistan,Burma etc. but I think he too could not enter Tamil Nadu. Later the Mughals till Aurangazeb were able to come till Andhra and Karnataka,but could not enter Tamil Nadu. Probably the geographical location of TN has helped it because only way to come to the south is to cross the entire stretch of the country through Andhra and Karnataka. Correct me if I am wrong.
Also, I feel that before the europeans, only the cholas were great in sea warfare. Because I am not sure how many kings went through the seas route to capture other lands. But these greatness of the chola kings are never brought to the limelight of the history. No one outside tamil nadu would have heard about the Cholas. worst is many of the tamils themselves would not know about these greatness.
I read somewhere that, the Indian history is not give its due respect the world arena.becuase as I said earlier in one of my mails, the westerners never wanted to appreciate the Indian history and wanted to show their supremacy. Alexander is called 'The Great' all over the world. But he was almost defeated by an Indian King 'Purushotaman'. Thats why Alexander made friendship with him and returned without further conquering. But this is not highlighted inthe world History.IF Alexander is called great, then Ashoka should also be called 'The Great' and RR and RJ sh ould also be called 'The Great'. In India alone, Ashoka is called the Great, but even in India RR and RJ are not called as the great. This disparity shown by the northerners towards southerners is heart breaking.
What can be done to bring such things to the lime light? Why doesnt the so called 'Tamil saviours' the DK's and the DMK's talk about these facts...any inputs from the learned people? Why I am asking is I see many wise people experienced in archeology and history closely associated with the ASI in this group.
I am a member of this group for a long time. Yet this is my first mail. Though I dont write mails I read and enjoy all the mails. I fully agree with the feelings of Mr Satish.
Tamilnadu was indeed occupied by kalapirars in early part of first millenium but then they became part of tamil culture and have become one of the important castes in Tamilnadu(mutharayars).So we cannot call it occupation.
The only time Tamilnadu was occupied was in 14th century by mohammed bin thuglaq in 1325(im not sure about the year)earlier malikgafoor invaded Tamilnadu but he was attacked by pandyas and left without establishing an empire.Thuqlaq invaded madurai,defeated it and left it under a governors rule from 1325 to 1365.
These 40 years were the worst time of tamilnadu.Only sabuvarayars ruled in kancheepuram.all other parts of tamilnadu were enslaved by the sultan.Meenakshi amman koil was locked and srirangam ranganathar began his tediouis journey from srirangam to madhurai to kanyakumari to kerala to sathyamangalam to melkottai(mysore) to tirupathi.The idol was carried to all these places to escape from being captured by sultans since it was made of pure gold(not moolavar,utsavar)
hundreds of devotees died for it.FInally that idol waited in tirupathi to be taken to srirangam.Kumara kambana who was the brother of harihara(harihara founded vijayanagar empire along with bukka) came to tirupathi.He was old and was considering retiring.But after seeing the Ranganatha idol he was so moved.He promised to take it back to srirangam.
He collected a small army adn finished off sabuvarayas who were then loyal to madurai sultans.But his army was very small and he couldnt atatck madurai sultan.But in his dream durga devi came it seems.Legend says that she told him "you attack.I am on your side.dont worry about numbers".Kambana started his attack next day.
The book written by ganga devi named "mathura vijayam" narrates the war as follows.Kambana carried the ranganatha idol in his head and declared the ranganatha as his commander in chief.The small army of 20000 marched towards srirangam.Ever village joined him on the way with youth coming forward with whatever they had as weapons.when this army reached trichy it swelled into 200,000.It captured it in no time and started the journey to madurai.on the way villagers joined kambana in swordes.
the battle took place in the banks of river madurai.sultan himself fought in the war with double the army of kambana.Kambana was losing but he contiunued with the Ranganatha idol in his head.soon hindus from sultans side joined kambana and war started to change.sultan was killed in end.Ranganatha idol was reinstated at srirangam after a 40 year journey.And kambana became the first telugu king of madurai and tamilnadu,the unified ruler from kanchepuram to kutralam.
Telugu kings ruled tamilnadu till 18th century.The last queen was rani meenakshi.after that it was british
Wonderful piece. Thanks. However, I think you have missed out on Maratha rule over Thanjai. Shahuji and his successors ruled Thanjai (Sarfoji et al). Even now, the head of the thanjai periya kovil devasthanam is the descendent of the Maratha line isnt it?
> of India upto Afghanistan,Burma etc. but I think he too could not > enter Tamil Nadu. Later the Mughals till Aurangazeb were able to come > till Andhra and Karnataka,but could not enter Tamil Nadu. Probably > the geographical location of TN has helped it because only way to > come to the south is to cross the entire stretch of the country > through Andhra and Karnataka. Correct me if I am wrong.
My IMHO is Aurangazeb did have plans to capture India. he was sent by shajahan to capture the entire south india. But while he was capturing Hyderabad, shajahan was planning to give the throne to the elder brother of Aurangazeb ( who was suppose to be a diplomat than a warrior). Aurangazeb felt betrayed bcos of that decision ( since he was one who was responsible for widening the kingdom). So he stopped his plan and went back to delhi and arrested his father and become the ruler. After that he concentrated on consolidating the existing areas. fortunately none of his sons were efficient to implement his vision ( As Rajendra did for his father).
Also some respects goes to the great Vijayanagar Kingdom in preventing any invasion from north towards south.
Sathish, not only westeners, even people in north of India wouldnt know much. Southies of CBSE/Matric also same.
Priya, history about ranganatha idol is great. thanks to you.
Saraboji was a late entrant. But i fear/doubt during all these periods Tamil were in dark. I beleive, it was waiting for Barathi the great. If any body who could tell about anyother tamil scholars during the dark period will be great.
That was a splendid thought to say that lets not worry about global acceptance, but feel proud about our own culture and tradition. Hats off sir. I like that spirit. But still as I said and Niranjan ponted out, even our own Indians and tamils of CBSE/Matric does not know about the glory.That really pains. But I like to take it up in the positive note as yours.
Niranjan, I too studied in a Matric school -:). But ofcourse there are exceptions. I agree that students of matric and CBSE do not read about our glory. The problme is with our educational system. When the student cant understand anything, at the early classes the Ancient History is taught. And following the chronological order, the start with the ancient history in the class IV or V and by the time the reach std. 9 and 10, when the student can analyse and understand things, only Mughal India and British India are taught. So at last the student remembers only the mughal India and British India and forget the past glory. It would be better, if the education dept. can change the syllubus as every class reads about everything starting with small capsules in the early classes and eloborating as they rise above. This surely will help students to remember the entire history of India. Again these are not in our hands. -:)
And Niranjan, we cannot say that during the periods mentioned by Priya, Tamil was in the Dark. Probably if you meant to say Tamil Nadu was in the dark, then i think its correct to some extent. But if you say Tamil itself was in the dark then I deny that. Manickavasar, i think, belongs to 15th century. Kumaraguruparar lived in the 17th century and its said that hearing his discourse on Kamba Ramayanam, TulasiDas got inspired and wrote "Ram Charita Manas" in Hindi.He wrote 'Kandar Kalivenba' at the age of 5. Arunagirinathar's period was around 250 years earlier from now.vallalar Ramalinga adigalar lived a century ago. This is a limited list. There were people in all ages who contributed to Tamil literature. And Barathiyar took it to the masses. Again there is a misconception that Bharatiyars tamil is very easy and anyone who knows tamil can understand his poems. Bharathiyar himself has said that his poems are easy to understand by anyone who has READ Tamil for around 3 years. In those days READING for 3 years means becoming atleast a half scholar(I mean the standards of education and we should realise that our ancient learning methods were hearsay and very tough). Bharatiyar was the last poet to write 'Marabillakiyam' meaning sticking to the grammer of Tamil(Marbu or Yappu). To some extent Bharadidasan follwed him. So Tamil was never in the dark at anytime. Probably,'yes' now.
Priya, Just not now, but even in your earlier mails, I cant stop wondering the abundant Historical Knowledge you possess. Thats really great on your part. How and where did you manage to read all these? Thanks for your information.That was really great.Share more with us Priya.
I have a doubt for quite a long time. Can anyone tell me what are the present countries which our ancient history points to ..like Kadaram, Savakam (I th ink its Java islands) manipallavam etc..in PS and other articles I have read about these countries across seas but do not know which country they are. can anyone clarify?
> Telugu kings ruled tamilnadu till 18th century.The last queen was > rani meenakshi.after that it was british
Dear priya
That was an excellent narriation. "Thiruvarangan Ula" a masterpiece by sri venugopalan - 4 parts covers the whole story in great detail. But things like the exact no of soldiers which you have quoted is not there in the book I believe. Not sure whether you took it from madhura vijayam. Yes, Kambana did take the idol with him but might not have carried it on his head - it is pretty heavy.
The story of kambana udaiyar does not end here. He continued to reinstall and reinitiate many of the temple worships across tamilnadu. For around 100 years the whole temple worship process had almost been forgotten and many things had to be referred from the elders.(sultans had ordered closure of all temples across the land)
There are several inscriptions of kambana across tamilnadu that speak volumes about his vital contribution.
Not satisfied with this, kambana and the successors of vijayanagar took all care to rebuild temples and sometimes if a specific temple was in highly dilapated state, they moved the stone idols and pillars to a nearby temple. That's why sometimes we find unique combinations and inscriptions in some of the temples. Sarangapany temple, nandhipuram temple..are few examples where this has happened.
I hope you also know that before the actual ranganatha could be installed srirangam people had already started worshipping another idol - we find him in srirangam even today. There is an interesting story as to how it was proved that the idol carried by kambana was infact the original ancient deity of srirangam.
Kadaram: Kedar of Malaysia Savagam:Java of Indonesia Combojam:Combodia/Kampuchea Manakkavaram: Nicobar Islands Malantheevu:Maldives Manipallvam:I think is Bali of Indonesia Swarnadesam:sumatra of indonesia
Pls dont say that Kadal Pura is a imaginory story. May not be to bits and pieces but it is very much a real story.
Kulothunga Cholan is the famous king in Chola era after RR and RJ. There are lot of evidences in Chinese history that he had a huge Chola army in Southern China after his expeditions to South East and its conquest.
Also many evidences about him conquering Kadaram during the quarrel between the kings of Kadaram and Sri Vijayam. Infact, it is said that he made the border line between these two kingdoms and made the respective kings to sit on the thrones and monitored them from Souther n China.
Kulothunga's former name is Anabhayan as well. He ascended the Chola throne after ViraRajendran (Rajendra II). He is not the son of ViraRajendran instead nephew of him.
ViraRajendran was also a great warrior but didn't go out of India. U guys might have heard about Virajpet in southern Karnataka, which is nothing but 'VeeraRajendrapattinam' named after his one of his victory with Chalukyas.
Coming back to Kadal Pura..... Always in Sandilyan's story, his hero will be an imaginary character. Kadal Pura is the only exceptional one, in which Karaunakara Illaiya Pallavan is very much a real character. He belonged to some branch of ancient Pallavas (Like Vandhiyathevan in Vaanar Kulam!) who was working as Thalapathi in Chola dynasty.
And the Kalinga war described in the intial part of Kadal Pura is true and not a fictious story. Actually, in the history it is said that many tamilians were imprisoned in Kalinga and Karunaagara Pallavan saved them just by his smart wickedness and not by any war.
I have read all these from "Pandaiya Thamizhar Varalaaru" book by Ve.Chellam.
Kadal Pura is the master piece of Sandilyan...which has lot of historical informations.
Dear Suganya I agree with you perfectly except one thing...I think Yavanarani was Sandilyans best byfar.
As far Kadalpura it was based on the circumstances which led to the Kalinga war and lead to the creation of Kalingathu parani praising the achievement of Kulothungan and Karunagara thondaimaan by jeyankondar
If you read the Mugavurai by Prof Dr N Subramanian you ll understand its a historic novel and not a karpanai kaaviyam in a different period
Infact he things Kulothunga's name on ascension is an inspiration of the Srivijaya kings who were Vijayothungan...Kumarathungan etc....
There was a mail about Purvadesam recently He thinks Purvadesam is actually Indo China which is present day Vietnam Combodia and Laos.....
So it was a fiction based on a strong historic background