KARUVURAR
  • VKR sir,

    At least after this set of counter-evidences to your claims, can we PLEASE
    set aside the wrong notions that you keep raising in the group?
  • Vijay, Hats - off to the person who translated so wonderfullyand thanks for putting them here... Feel so proud to read...

    :))
  • dear Vkr

    I am every bit a novice at this field and i do not gain anything by showing
    you in poor light. But that apart, I wrote so because even after so many
    interactions you post disjointed uncorrelated stuff, ridiculing a great
    ruler. Even now, after i have posted a series of transcripts of
    inscriptions - you still want to argue. But I will be more happy if you put
    up your hand and say that you made a mistake in writing such ill advised,
    ill researched, half baked, totally false information on Sri Raja Raja and
    apologise for the same

    vj

    http://www.poetryinstone.in
    “*Here the language of stone surpasses the language of man*” – Nobel
    laureate, Rabindranath Tagore
  • Dear Vijay and respected VKR Sir,

    Two things are figuring in these mails.

    Vijay brought out an interesting re Karuvurar.

    VKR Sir - brought out a reference re "neglect " of the temple.

    Dr. Nagaswamy has discussed these detail in depth in his book " Brahadeswara " published last year.

    What he states is :

    1. " Brahadeswara Mahatmiyam " two versions One in Sanskrit and another in Maratti - were written and in use during 1700s or so.

    There were so much of PURANIC details. Discounting them, focussing on certain details :

    the Big temple was constructed by Karikalan - who had some illness and was advised to construct a linga and the one was brought from narmada etc., etc.

    Dr. RN has gone through in depth and refuted these versions.

    2. Re Karuvurar - he substantiated that he belonged to 16th Century.

    The Temple rituals were conducted as per MAGUDAGAMA ..

    Similar aagamic processes were followed in Chidambaram and Thiruvarur too.

    Vijay's observation is interesting.. will pursue again.

    rgds / sps
  • Sri Arunagirinathar has sung about Tanjore temple.
    That means in his times the temple fully active.
    Saraboji Maharaj added 108 lingams and the Maratha Royal family
    took full part in in maintaining the temple functional.
    ThatSaraboji Maharajacould do because it was not under any Adeenam.
    So he could directly control the temple administration.
    But what about Darasuram near Kumbakonam ?
    Currently maintained by the ASI.
    That also was built by Sri Rajarajan.
    What is the agama followed there ?
    Request members to share their views.
  • Date: 7-2-2012

    Dear Readers,

    As Karuvurer is being discussed I thought I will bring it to the notice of those who may be interested an 11/12 century inscription deciphered by Thiru Naga Ganeshan referring to Karuvurer in the "Avanam" Magazine Ithal 19 - July 2008 issue Inscription No: 7 from Kuliththalai Vattam, in Karur Mawattam found on a single stone slab near the Bagavathi Amman temple.

    The text is as follows:

    1.....raivara nirainju kuraivara koodik....
    2.....ng kuduththu "Karuvuuth Thevarku" itch.......
    3......thimilai secandi mattru vendu.....
    4.....nikara thachchakku "Karuvuuth Thevarkkuma"....
    5.....thom Panmaakesura irrakkshai.

    Virarajendra
  • > Sri Arunagirinathar has sung about Tanjore temple.
    > That means in his times the temple fully active.


    he sings about the muruga on the gopuram.
    so muruga temple was added later.

    the serfojis had to leave their kingdom under the doctrine of lapse. one of their last kings was influenced by a christian missionary called swartz
    the british allowed the royal family to retain some temples in and around tanjore. darasuram might not have been one



    venketesh

    > Saraboji Maharaj added 108 lingams and the Maratha Royal family
    > took full part in in maintaining the temple functional.
    > ThatSaraboji Maharajacould do because it was not under any Adeenam.
    > So he could directly control the temple administration.
    > But what about Darasuram near Kumbakonam ?
    > Currently maintained by the ASI.
    > That also was built by Sri Rajarajan.
    > What is the agama followed there ?
    > Request members to share their views.
    >
    > Regards,
    > S.Karthik
    > Vandemataram
    >
    >
  • > >
    > > Dr. Nagaswamy has discussed these detail in depth in his book " Brahadeswara " published last year.

    > >
    > > Dr. RN has gone through in depth and refuted these versions.
    > >
    > > 2. Re Karuvurar - he substantiated that he belonged to 16th Century.


    When was the panniru thirumurai assembled. karuvurars thiruvisaipaa is there.

    many of the temples karuvurar sang about have typically chola names. doubt if he could have been later

    venketesh
  • Very Interesting.
    I had asked this doubt because I had read that
    Darasuram's original name is Rajarajeswaram.
    This information I had got from kalki's book, if I remember right
    "Nam munnor seitha vindhaigal".
  • Sirs,

    Through some books deals with Siddhars,
    happened to know that RajaRaja was helped by the karuvurar to install the Linga of Rajarajeswaram...

    Is it true?



    Thanking You

    Sakthi sree
  • Add to this Paramacharya of KanchiMutt also has lent support to this theory.
    He says that Rajaraja took the help of Karuvurar toinstall the
    Lingam at Big Temple.
    Who is the bearded guru of Rajaraja painted in the corridors of the
    Big Temple ?
  • There is a possiblilty that - Nambiaandar Nambi compiled furst 7 Thirumurais and Umapathi sivam the balance.
  • There are many temples under "Tanjai Aranmanai Devasthanam" like Thiruppazhanam, Vada Kurangaduthurai etc.

    Simillarly there are "Aranmanai Devasthanam" of Ramnad ( Like Thiruvadanai), Pudukkottai ( Thirukkokarnam) and Sivaganagi.

    The Adheenams control also has changed many times.

    1. Dharmapuram adheenam permananetly moved from Dharmapuram of Karaikkal to Mayuladuthurai due to disturbance from French.


    2. Madhwa Mutts had control of Kumbesan and Sarangapani temple and when Sri Ragavebdra moved to Mantralayam, he handed over the admn of Sarangapani temple to Ahobila Mutt and Kumbesan to Kanchi Sankara Mutt. - Both these mutts were based at Kumbakonam then.

    Once Sri Vijayendrar - Paramaguru of Ragavendra walked on a "Vazhai Naar" tied between the towers of Kumbeasn and Sarangapani.

    3. Kanchi Mutt could not administer Kamakshi temple when they moved to Kumbakonam and got that back in end 1800s after a Legal Battle.


    4. Even Sringeri Mutt had to function from Nashik for 10 years during Anglo/French/Maratha wars.


    The control of temples underwent many changes. Many temples were now have multiple rights to various Mutts.

    There are some temples where affairs of only one sannidhi is controlled by a Mutt. Like Rameswaram, Thiruvanaikka, Thiruvotriyur.

    Very complex subject.
  • Dear Virarajendra !

    I also read that inscription "fragment" piece - found during Dr. TS Sridhar.

    But does it mention of the period / year ?

    (11th / 12 the Century )

    That would be very helpful.

    rgds/ sps
  • Date: 7-2-2012

    Anbumikka Sivapathasekaran,

    Thiru Naga Ganeshan has referred to it as possibly of the period 11/12 th century in the Avanam Magazine, may be based on the information we have from "Thiruvisaippa" of Thirumaalikai Thevar, that Karuvur Thevar was of the period of Rajaraja Chola - 1 & Rajendra Chola - 1. But there is no date indicated in the inscription.

    Anbudan Virarajendra
  • Date: 7-2-2012

    Sorry Readers, the words "...Thirumaalikai Thevar,that....." have to be omitted in my posting below. Karuvur Thevar in the Nineth (9th) Saiva Thirumurai has sung Pathikams (Ten verse Hyms) on "Thanjai Rarajarajeswarem" and "Gangaikonda Choliswarem".

    Virarajendra

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