Ramayanam before Kamban 46- More Copper plates/Inscriptions
  • I am giving some more copper plates/Inscriptions mentioning Ramayana Charectors

    1. Kailasanatha temple epigraph on Rajasimha

    Point no 15 - He resembles Rama in Valour


    2.Udayendiram Plates of Prithivipati II. Hastimalla.
    V. 10.) Having slain in an instant, at the head of a battle, an immense army, dispatched by the lord of Lanka, which teemed with brave soldiers (and) was interspersed with troops of elephants and horses, he bears in the world the title Samgramaraghava, which is full of meaning.
    V. 11.) When he had defeated the Pandya (king) Rajasimha, two persons experienced the same fear at the same time: (Kubera) the lord of wealth on account of the death of his own friend,[33] (and) Vibhishana[34] on account of the proximity (of the Chola dominions to Ceylon
    The name Samgramaraghava, i.e., ‘(resembling) Rama in battle,’ was appropriate in his case, because he defeated an army of the king of Ceylon, just as rama had killed Ravana, the fabulous ruler of Lanka.

    [33] This seems to imply that the Pandya king Rajasimha possessed great wealth, which was seized by the conquering Chola king.

    [34] This is the name of Ravana’s younger brother, who was raised to the throne by Rama.
    3. Chinnamanur Plates
    The Sanskrit portion of the bigger Sinnamanur plates begins with a fragmentary verse in which the king (perhaps Pandya) boasts of having subdued the ocean — another to have shared it with that god, and still another, to have caused the Ten-Headed (i.e., Ravana of Lanka) to sue for peace (v. 5). This copper plate mentions two important deeds of Pandyas as 1) Supporting the Tamil Sangam in Madurai and 2) Translating Mahabharata in Tamil. The list clearly states that this happenned before Talayanamkana war. Hence the Perundevanar Bharada
    4. Thiruvalangadu plates on RRC
    Tiruvalangadu plates of Rajaraja Cola I (985 to 1014 CE) describe the king as surpassing Rama in military prowess and crossing the ocean with his powerful army and subduing the king of Lanka.

    5. Kamarasavalli Inscriptions - They mention about tha Kothandaraman Vaikkal and there is a reference to one of
    Rajendra's wife as " Krishna Kousalya"

    6. Chera King Vijayaraghava - Son in law of Sthanu Ravi and Father of Ravi Nili mentioned in Thiruvotriyur
    incription - Our Veerarajendran sir article
  • Hi,
    May you please let me know which time period you assign to Kamban?
  • In this article i am giving details compiled upto 12th AD. As i said i will avoid giving any views and let the people take their own decision.

    Since there are are 2 opinions on Kamban's period

    let people who believe 9th AD as period of kamban take details upto 9th AD and people who belive 12th - can take upto 12th.

    Once i compile maximum details, then we will discuss and finalise the compilation.

    Now mostly we will see more of post 9th AD.

    The post of Aravindan on Ponsei - referred as Nanipalli in thevaram has some pannels, which will be absorbed in the final compilation. The seetha in ashokavanam is one such ( damaged in Nageswaran temple but is very safe here)
  • Hi Sankar,
    Thanks a lot for this, as most of the people put Kamban to 12th century as
    its good to know whether we are talking in same reference. As there are much
    confusion about the period of lost of historical figures so its good to know
    beforehand which period we are taking into account.
    May you please let me know why this topic came into discussion, Ramayana before
    Kamban. Was there some statement by someone where they said that Ramayana
    knowledge did not exist before Kamban translated it into Tamil? Just curious to
    know that triggering point for this discussion.
  • Saurab,

    There are informations recorded in the Sangam Poem about Rama and Ravana.
    Even there is an old Ramayana exists in Tamil before kamban.

    Lets wait for Sankar to complete.
  • There are some subjects in Tamilnadu, which are propagated repeatedly.

    I read a few articles and found the Ramayana subject very intresting. Many people have written and mine is an effort to compile the essences of those articles.. I have added a few from my side.

    I will list a few such theories in TN.

    1. Ganesh worship came to TN after Vatapi conquest. ( There are thevaram verses of pre vatapi. That is why we were searching for the Mahalingam report and got that with our Raj's help)

    2. Tamil culture of sangam and Hindu culture are different

    3. Ravana was a Tamilian and Ramayana is against Tamils. Tamils did not know Ramayana before Kamban and Kamban added the virtues of sangam kings to Rama. The fact is otherway around in thevaram. ( not only for lifting kailash but also for his other deeds. Thevaram refers his defeat by Vali, Rama and even says jatyu defeated him)

    4. There are many versions of Ramayana and in some Ravana is potrayed as a very good person. ( yet to see that Ramayana)

    5. Vedas referred in thevaram are different.

    6. Sanskrit was imposed by Brahmins. The fact is Thevaram treats both Tamil and Sanskrit equally and 2 of the 3 authors of thevaram are brahmins. There are many brahmin composers of Tamil verses on Gods till 20 th century - Periyalwar, Umapathy Sivachariyar, nambiyandar nambi ( who compiled thevaram) , Kachiyappa sivachariyar, Abirama Bhattar, Bharthiyar, Pillai Perumal Aiyangar - to name a few.

    7. Saiva siddanta and Advaitha are vastly different. the fact is both are the same and only differ on the supreme. It is Siva in Saiva Siddantha and Nirguna Brahman in Advaitha.

    These topics will always come up and in TN repeatedly along with Arya/Dravida siddanta.
  • Dear Sankar,
    No, it seems Pillayar worship existed long before Calukyas of Vatapi,
    in TN, at Pillayarpatti. ca 7th century, or much earlier. Siva's
    shrine is 4th cent. there.
    I know there have been many notes in our Ponni. grp. on this
    wonderful, powerful site.

    I think Ravana was from Murwara basin, Katni Dt., MP, said to be on
    same meridian as Ujjain.
    Ravan. still worshipped as hero in that area. [we all have our hobby
    horses we trot out. I'm waiting for a scholar to shoot me down about
    this] Lankapatanam, Jabalpur Dt..

    Kishkindhya Dandakaranya, possibly in E. MP. How could they have
    travelled all the way to the island of Serendip in those ancient days?
    Advaita/ Thevaram can't comment upon.
    Dear Udanx, where have you been?
  • yes kathie. Pillayar worship was prelevant much before vatapi in TN.

    2 strong proof are

    1. Pillayarpatti
    2. Appar Thevaram

    Now the alagarai ganesa is the thrird proof.
  • I think you are missing the point. Ganapathiyam was a seperate sect,
    there is no dispute on that. The issue is to see how , why and when he
    graduates into the hindu pantheon as head of ganas n later as son of

    Date of pillayarpatti is oscilating between 3rd to 6th. More so its a
    predominantly shiva shrine with a lingothbava n harihara relief

    Appar's period is when he is sung as son of god.

    So you have to see for any references showing him as shiva family before that!!
  • My point is restricted to  Ganapati in TN before Vatapi conquest.
    These 2 points confirm to Pre Vatapi. Rest i agree that we need to get more info.
    If tirumoolar time is fixed as pre Appar,  then the " aindu karathanai " is one more proof of pre Vatapi and Alagarai can add  to that.
    Any views on Tirumoolar's time?

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