Chinese accounts of chola mission
  • When i first read about the chola ambassadors to the chinese court, it
    filled my heart with pride. but when i read this translation, i was a bit
    shocked. free download the App II: Chinese Texts Describing or Referring to
    the Chola Kingdom as Zhu-nian, from below link.


    http://bookshop.iseas.edu.sg/ISEAS/EbookDetails.jsp?cSeriesCode=PIC187&cCategoryType=

    Go to page 298,

    To consider that as your subject i am a small being like a mosquito and a
    humble creature like a paper mache dog, having been living for generations
    in a barbarous town.My country is far from chinese civilisation, having not
    been enlightened and having sent no tribute to your court. Now i quietly
    listen to the song praising the virtues of your majesty, which is sung even
    in the frontiers. Regrettably i am too advanced to proceed to your court
    personally to offer tribute.

    Could this be a correct account. My heart says no way !!!!

    vj

    http://www.poetryinstone.in
    Here the language of stone surpasses the language of man
  • Dear members,
    Kindly confirm whether any tamil settlement in earlier days was in korea. What is koreas name in our literature?
     
  • Hi VJ,

    Reading it a bit more closely, it's very interesting.

    Pg. 295: "In the kingdom there is a city which is enclosed by seven-fold
    walls that are seven-feet high. The length of the outer wall is twelve li
    from north to south, and seven li from east to west.*... The sixth wall
    encloses Buddhist monasteries, where one hundred monks live.* The seventh
    walled citadel comprises the royal palace where there are more than four
    hundred rooms."

    Buddhist?

    Pg. 296 "The present king belongs to the third generation of the dynasty."
    Pg. 297: "In the ninth month of the eighth year of the dazhong xiangfu reign
    period (1015), its king Luo-cha-luo-zha sent to our..."

    That would be RRC or RJC, right? I guess you could call RJC the third of his
    (sub)-dynasty: Parantaka-Sundara, Rajaraja, Rajendra, but not RRC.

    "Now I quietly listen to the song praising the virtue of Your Majesty, which
    is sung even in the frontiers. Regrettably I am too advanced in age to
    proceed to your court personally to offer tribute. In addition I live in a
    remote country separated by the vast sea and there are many obstacles on the
    way rather difficult to overcome. Therefore, I am now observing from after
    the gate of Your Majesty’s palace with the strength of my sincerity."

    If I'm right, and it's RJC, _old age_ sounds rather ridiculous, since he
    ruled for another 30-odd years after this, and if it's RRC, how do we
    reconcile the "third of his dynasty" claim?

    Apart from that, this hardly sounds like a message that came from either RRC
    or RJC, after proclaiming themselves "Rulers of the three worlds". Besides,
    many of the terms used seem very directly Chinese, not Indian:

    Pg. 297: "I humbly hear that Your Majesty’s rule extends without limit and
    people serve you submissively wherever they live." - a very Confucian ideal,
    which I can't reconcile with anything we know about Indian (and especially
    Tamil) kings.

    "The merit of your administration covers Heaven and Earth, and the force of
    your power gives discipline to the universe." - Again, very Chinese
    formulae.

    Pg. 298: "Therefore, Heaven appreciated your splendid achievements and as
    predicted in the *letter from Heaven*, you have accomplished what was never
    done in the past and are keeping the base for the established rule of the
    Empire. - The heavenly mandate is the logic used by all Chinese emperors for
    their rule.

    In general, it looks like this message was composed by a Chinese hand, not
    an Indian one. So, I'll propose a theory (with no justification, of course).
    I see no reason to doubt the translation, or even the arrival of emissaries
    from the Cholas (either RRC or RJC). Possibly, either the envoy or the
    scribe who recorded this changed the message to be in keeping with the court
    traditions of the Song dynasty. Maybe (and here I'm really speculating), the
    reason was that they would have been a head shorter if they presumed to
    suggest that any other ruler was even suggesting equality with the Emperor
    of China, which would have been the import of any message sent by a Chola
    ruler. Diplomacy probably made it this way.

    Unfortunately, we don't have the Chola side of this correspondence, which
    should have been very enlightening. I wonder if the same trick was played by
    other emissaries to various places. After all, the king of the place they're
    visiting is right there, and their own king is beyond a mountain and on the
    other side of the sea...
  • dear sash

    The first one reached china in 1015. So in all possibility considering
    traveling time - despatched by RRC only. but reached post his demise
  • Still leaves the "third of his dynasty" unexplained, unless one (awkwardly)
    considers Uthama to be the second...
  • Dear Vijay,
     As per your suggestions, I forwarded the excellent interview of Sundar Krishnan to Kalaimagal magazine. The said interview was considered and got published in the August 2010 issue page no 62-64. I request you to kindly go through the same and give your valauble suggestions.
    In the said magazine my article on Shenbagaraman was also published. I request you to go throrugh the same and give your remarks, which may help to improve my writings
  • Dear VJ
    All the historical accounts taken from chinese history between 9th and
    the end of 10th centuries are mostly based on 'Chu Fan Chi' (meaning
    'Description of barbaric foreign people' who were trading with china) written by
    Chau Ju Kua who was an inspector of foreign trade at the customs department in
    Quanzhou (Fukien – Fujian) a.k.a Zeytoun, then (Information collected from
    around 1211 and completed by 1225) documents (together with another man called
    Chou Ku Fei).
    He wrote the translated accounts of the chinese royal palace about the
    visit of Cholas and they have to priase the chinese kings and to write inferior
    about all other kings. (Kindly see the warfares in history of China between
    Northern Sung dynasty and Souther Sung dynasty struggles).
    For further clear details, kindly read KN Sastri's Cholas Part II.
    pages 788 to 801.
  • Date: 31-7-2010

    Anbumikka Kalanithi(Dr)L.Kailasam,

    You will be interested to know the words for Father & Mother in Korean Language is Amma & Appa as in Tamil Language, (as mentioned to me by some Koreans themselves recently).
  • Yes - it is pronounced aapa, aama

    There is a channel - KBS world, a korean channel with english sub titles. We see that at times.

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