Ramayanam before Kamban - 9
  • Appar thevaram:

    Ravana trying to lift Mt Kailsh. ( Uttarakanda inncident) As mentioned by satish, Appar uses that as a signature in many songs ( but not in all). Sambandar also mentions that in many places. But there are two intresting Padigams of Appar.

    1. Thirukkailaya Padigam:

    In this Appar mentions the inncidence in all the 10 songs. He repeats the same thing again and again.

    2. Vedaranyam: In vedaranyam he sings again a padigam mentioning this inncidence again and again in all the 10 songs. We can understand this in kailaya padigam but why in Vedaranyam?

    I searched this at many places and finally got the hint from an article by Mahaswami.

    Rama Installed 3 lingams after the Ravana vadam.

    1. Rameswaram - to get rid of the Brahamahathi. Here he dose not mention the inncident.

    2. Vedaranyam - he installed a lingam in the temple to get rid of Veera hathi as ravana is a big warrior. ( not the main lingam, there is a separate Ramalingam. main lingam wasworshipped by Vedas. Mahabali's earlier birth was related to this temple. main lingam is much older to ramayana period.) hence here a separate padigam on Ravana.Though he calls ravana Kodiyan, theeyavan, he also praises him in the last song.

    (here see in 8th song- nakkana - Kindal - nakkal - vattara vazhakku)
    3. Patteeswaram where he installed a lingam to get rid off Chaya hathi ( here Chaya is Pugazh, keerthi)


    Vedaranyam is also related to Mahabali. see the link above.
  • Hi,

    Vedaranyam is Tirumaraikadu and Appar and Sundarar had competetion in singing and pleasing God Shiva. Here Appar sang 11 songs and the temple door opened. Thats why it is in Vedaranyam.


  • Was Luv Kusha not born in the Banks of Tamsa (MP / UP border - Tributary of Ganges)

    Some thing is missing in the geography here, I know that Thirupugazh songs quote L&K in Siruvapuri and more data on it.
    However, the ashwamedha yagna to have reached here from Ayodhya is not that easy and esp when Valmiki's ashram was in the banks of River ganga. Logic and reasoning dont sound right on the episode if I were to cut out the emotion.

    Can there be a clarification on this ?

    - R
  • The song sung By Appar for opening the door is different.

    Appar sung5 thevarams for the temple. He sung Pannin Ner Mozhiyar Umai Bangaro - for opening the door. ( Kadavai thirandarul seimine) Both Sambandar and Appar went inside and sung.

    Sambandur thevarams are 4 for this temple out of which one is for closing the door.

    Sundarar - 1 thevaram - total 10

    Appars thevaram is significant as he mentions Ravana Inncident in all 10 songs after opening the door.

    Thatthevaram for opening the door byAppar is given below.


  • In Ramayana, lakshman leaves sita after crossing river . The ashrammust belocated some where there.

    But on the other hand , these legends are associated with 3 temple in chennai.

    I have also in an earlier mail noted that thirumullaivayil and Thirumazhisai which are jsut 10km apart have simillar legends.

    Been to Karaikkal yesterday - the Pasupatha innceident was associated with that temple.( thelichery)But we have Thiruvetkalam also associated with that temple, which is just 50Kms away.

    The purana details have to be analysed with more support.
  • There is something called as visualization.
    It happens with many places where a saint / rishi or spiritual guru, sees something from a specific spot and describes it to their disciples - which gets converted to stories and future sculptures even further as temples.
    Unless we go deep into these folklore and find the history behind 'who' created this story in the first place, we wont be able to tie up the loose ends.
    If Luv kusha were born after being banished from Ayodhya, the story of them coming here is very difficult.
    Again, if we keep telling rishi moolam nadhi moolam story, we are going to be losing out to the modern enthusiasts who believe only in science.

    - R
  • Intrestingly there is another Vanmiki in Tamilnadu. Had contributed one poem in Purananuru.

    we should have a cutoff with Periyapuranam period. All other Puranams have to be anlysed in different angle. ( kandapuranam may be another exception)

    We have already had a discussion on Thirumurai Kanda puranam.
  • Talking about Valmiki

    When did Vaanmi become vaalmiki ?
    How and when did the migration of tamil word 'Na' become 'la'?
    Any takers ?
    Vairam - any sangam stuff to accommodate here ?
  • Valmiki is also mentioned as vanmiki .
    The meaning of Valmiki is one who came out from "Putru".
    Many siva moorthis who came out from Putru are called in tamil as "Vanmikar, Vanmika nathar, Putridam kondar" etc.
    Will request more from Tamil scholars.
    Vanmiki and valmiki are the same. But Thiruvanmiyur vanmiki, Purananuru Vanmiki, Ramayana Valmiki should be analysed - whether are same, or different or their father named them after Ramayana valmiki.
  • Dear friend,

    your presumsion that Puranaanuuru may be ruled out, since th"Sanga Ilakkiya solladaivu" publised by Thanjaip Palkalaik Kzagam has not mentioned it.. If it is an errorand youcan give reference thatmaybe an exceptional coincidence. You maypublish it here and also inform TPK, Thanjavur.

    V.Kothanda Raman.
  • 1. Thiruvarur:

    தென் இந்தியக் கல்வெட்டுத் தொகுதி 8, எண் 749, A. R. No. 433 of 1903 இவ்வூர் மிகப் பழமைவாய்ந்தது. இச்செய்தியை ``திருவினாள் சேர்வதற்கு முன்னோ பின்னோ திருவாரூர் கோயிலாக் கொண்டநாளே`` என்னும் அப்பர் சுவாமிகள் தேவாரப் பகுதியால் அறியலாம்.

    இவ்வூரில் பூங்கோயில், அரநெறி, பரவையுண்மண்டளி என்னும் மூன்று பாடல் பெற்ற கோயில்கள் இருக்கின்றன. இவற்றுள் புற்றிடங்கொண்டார் (வன்மீகநாதர்) எழுந்தருளியிருக்கும் திருக் கோயிலே பூங்கோயில் எனப் பெயர்பெறும். இதுவே திரு மூலட்டானம் எனவும் வழங்கப்பெறும். இதற்கு முப்பத்துநான்கு பதிகங்கள் இருக்கின்றன.

  • I have in my notes that Bithur, Kanpur Dt., UP claims to
    be the site of Valmiki's asrama, therefore the birthplace
    of Lava/Kusa. Very ancient site. They claim arrowhead w which
    Lava wounded his Father in fight over Asvamedha horse
    found in Ganga bank here. Now in the mandir at the ghat.
    Don't have references, sorry.
  • I am not sure about the 'miki' tag to vaan, i need to see some references to it, in tamil it is vaanmi, any references to vaanmiki ?
  • Looks in sanskrit also he is called vanmiki:
    The Permanent History of Bharata Varsha (India): Mahabharata or karma-yoga
    By K. Narayana Aiyar


    Vanmiki Ashram (Kanpur) from

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  • We have seen
    1. vanmiki and Valmiki - same meaning - from ant hill (putru)
    2. In sanskrit also some times vanmiki is used.
    3. There is also a news that in Prakrit valmiki is pronounced vanmiki -( could not down load)
    4. thevaram, periyapuranam dosenot mention van(l)miki
    5. Kambar mentions him without naming. No mention of valmiki or vanmiki
    தேவபாடையின் இக் கதை செய்தவர்
    மூவர் ஆனவர் தம்முளும், முந்திய
    நாவினான் உரையின்படி, நான் தமிழ்ப்
    பாவினால் இது உணர்த்திய பண்புஅரோ. 10

    The one who wrote the story in devabashai ( valmiki)
    6. Vanmiki Choothira Gyanam - a bookby- Vanmiki siddar. Kamil mentions this in his book.
    7. List of 18 siddars gives vanmiki as author of ramayana and samadhi at Ettikudi.
    8. Tamil book “Vanmeegarum Thamizhum” by late Thiru. Narayana Iyengar, Editor of Senthamizh, published by Madurai Tamil Sangam,
    If any one has this book can quote from it.

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  • Sorry , I am not sure if my question was right, the answer is still eluding.

    Vaanmi is tamil - vaanmiki I am not sure.
    Naa has been converted to Laa, there are some base line questions on
    the Valmiki / Vaanmi theory surrounding chennai/kanchi plate.

    Was the author of Ramayana (vaalmiki) in Vaanmiyur ?
    Did Luva Kusa actually live in the Siruvaapuri districts?
    If not, how did this story evolve.

    Please do clarify if possible.

    - R
  • 1. Valmiki worshipping at Thiruvanmiyur ( he first visits thiruvotriyur and lord advises him to go to Thiruvanmiyur) is not an issue. He could have visited.

    2. Koyambedu lord being worshipped by Luv/Kush is also not an issue. They might have visited.

    3. the Siruvapuri inncident is the one that has to be deeply searched ( Arunagirinathar is also mentioning this)

    Let us search together.
  • Thanks satish for Purananuru reference

    Thanks sirfor your tamil lexicon ref on vanmiki.

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