Questions on Chola history
  • Dr.JB has started an interesting thread in agathiyar. I am forwarding
    the initial interaction between him and myself for the benefit of PS
    group members.

    Mikka anbudan
    Gokul.
  • Dear all...

    G...my reply in Agathiyar, on this thread:

    *******************

    Dear all,

    Gokul, you've given all the arguments I'd thought up:-)).

    > > Adithya was murdered. Nobody got punished.
    > > PROBABLY THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS WHOLE SERIES. Infact
    it is this which inspired ponniyin selvan. The thiruvalangadu copper
    plates also mention the murder of aditya so indirectly :
    > " Aditya (the sun) set. The whole world was surrounded by the
    > darkness of kali" The darkness refers to the confution that
    >prevailed after his death - probably.

    K.A.N says that the Thiruvalangadu plates seem to gloss over these
    events - making enigmatic statements. Kalki seems to have followed
    the same course in PS.

    > > Now, what do you make of it.
    > > If you were to write a novel and especially you happen to
    be a Pandya sympathiser.

    If I were a Pandyan sympathiser ...

    I'd try to make it clear that Uthama Chozha had indeed been
    responsible for Adhitya Karikalan's murder. He stood to benefit the
    most, after all. ["...He formed a party of his own, and brought about
    the murder of Adithya II (Adhitha Karikalan), and having done so, he
    forced the hands of Sundara Cola to make him heir apparent..." -
    K.A.N.]Incidentally, that's the stand Balakumaran has taken, in his
    novel 'Udaiyar'.
  • The debate continues in agathiyar...

    > "...He formed a party of his own, and brought about
    > the murder of Adithya II (Adhitha Karikalan), and having done so,
    he
    > forced the hands of Sundara Cola to make him heir apparent..." -
    > K.A.N.

    It is very interesting to read the counter arguements raised by
    sadasiva pandarathar who felt strongly that uttama was innocent. He
    mentions Rajaraja's records which hail uttama in high note. RR also
    named his own son as mathuranthaka (rajendra's another name) to show
    his respect for his chitappa.

    Kalki believed sadasiva pandarathar word by word. Many of the facts /
    poetic quotations in ponniyinselvan are taken straight from
    pandarathar.

    Arguements - counter arguements.. Dr.JB aiya - enna solgireergal ?:-)

    Mikka anbudan
    Gokul.S
  • Dear Gokul, Just saw your mail.
    After writing on Kerala Mercinaries, while I was driving back home, I
    was pondering the subject again and again.
    Suddenly I recalled: KERALANTHAGAN VOIL in Periyakoil... No
    Madurantagan voil... Of all the names, why did he chose this
    particular name.. He is obsessed with Kerala war.. Identifying these
    mercinaries has only made him the King - the process by which he
    could over-power Uthama and sit in throne - as an Emperor! It is
    mentioned that Uthama himself has crowned him..

    RR did not name his son Madurantaga. As mentioned earlier, such
    names are conferred upon or self proclaimed...

    Incidentally do you know that Pandarathar hailed from
    Thirupperumbuyam?

    Ironically the Mahadevar is SATSHINADHAR - though famous for
    Vennimaram - Kinaru - Chettippenn episode of Thiruvalayadal puranam.
    Even today you can find a Vannimaram - Chettippen - Kinaru engraving
    in one of the pillars near old Sundareswara (protected during
    Malikafur period) in Madurai. Thiruppurambuyam - Madurai connections
    are un-ending!

    "Thiruvarur Record SI XIII (570/1904) 30th day 2nd year - Aug 986:
    Semibyan madevi made offerings to temple FOR THE WELFARE OF UTHAMA
    CHOZHA."
    "Thiruppurambiyam 338/1927 : 988 - RR 3 yr: GIFT of a Silver POT by
    Udayapurattiyar, on behalf of her son UTHAMA"

    UTHAMA was also known as VIKRAMA CHOZHAN:

    " VIKARAMA CHOZHA MARAYAN figures in UTHAMA's Tiruvadi record XIX 307
    in Year 12. The same person figures as RAJARAJA PALLAVARAYAN @
    Vikrama Chozha Marayan in Kuhur Record 290/1917 :: 7th RR's year"

    =THE ABOVE ARE QUOTED FROM N.SETHURAMAN :: EARLY CHOLAS

    THIS VIKRAMA CHOZHA MARAYAN who changed his name and loyalty is
    hailing from Kolar - (PALAMANER name is there today also near
    Bangalore which resembles PAZHAMARNERI near Thirukkattuppalli). He
    was a Minister under Uthama. Constructed Vikramachozhamangalam. Got
    the Royal Order to have a canal formed from Cauvery to temple lands
    when Uthama was sitting in Kanchi Palace..

    I strongly believe that he is instrumental in unearthing the
    assassination of AK. Not only he changed his name, he also changed
    his Loyalty by constructing Olagapuram Siva Temple (under ASI now)
    near Marakkanam, named after OLAGAMADEVI alias THANDHI
    SAKTHIVIDANGI :: Empress of Rajaraja. He was also known as Pazhuvur
    Nakkan. Panchanvan madevi - Queen of RR - also hails from Pazhuvur.
    Rajendra's pallippadai for Panchavan Madevi should be revolving
    around this nexus.

    - Fondly, SB



    Fondly, SB
  • > ANOTHER GREAT MYSTERY. THE DEATH OF RAJARAJA IS NOT AT ALL RECORDED
    > CLEARLY. NOT A SINGLE AUTHENTIC IMAGE OR SCULPTURE OF THIS GREAT KING
    > IS AVAILABLE TO US !!! NOT EVEN IN PERIYA KOIL !!!
    >

    Gokul, isn't the image of Raja Raja and Karuvur Thevar an authentic one?
    If not, any idea what period it belongs to?
  • > Gokul, isn't the image of Raja Raja and Karuvur Thevar an authentic
    one?
    > If not, any idea what period it belongs to?

    Pl refer my article titled "Karungallil oru kaviyam" - while there
    are many who believe that the painting represents karuvoor thevar /
    rajaraja, people like Dr.Kalaikkovan strongly object. Though the
    paintings belong to rajaraja period, we are not sure whether the guy
    is rr.
    that it is the other guy - the one with beard - who is most likely to
    be rajaraja. The artist modelled sundaramoorthy nayanar based on
    rajaraja. There is no historic proof to this, however. It is
    something which your heart believes in.

    Mikka anbudan
    G
  • > Gokul, isn't the image of Raja Raja and Karuvur Thevar an authentic
    one?
    > If not, any idea what period it belongs to?

    According to Dr.Kalaikkovan, Karuvur thevar who sang Thiruvisaippa (11th
    Thirumurai) lived only after 2-3 centuries of RR. There is no relationship
    between RR and KT. The reason Dr.K gives for this theory is that KT's name
    is not mentioned in any of the inscriptions in periya kovil as well as other
    temples which has the inscriptions of RR. The name of 'Esaana siva
    pandithar' was mentioned as RR's guru.

    Since KT didn't exist at all during RR's period, how can that saint in the
    painting be KT?

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Top Posters