Thank you for allowing me to write in this group. Adiyen is interested in Pallava history, culture and art. It is a historic fact that Pallava Kanchipuram was more cosmopolitan, welcoming many races and religions than the later Chola dynasty ever was. It is unfortunate that Sriman Kalki chose to glorify the medieval Cholas - who began with Vijayalaya Cholan - and who had nothing to do with the early Cholas - and were in consequence, a 'robber' dynasty. History will judge the Cholas for their brutal destruction of the zenith of Tamil culture built up by the glorious Pallava kings and also for introducing intolerance in Tamizhagam.
Thank you for allowing me to write in this group. Adiyen is interested in Pallava history, culture and art. It is a historic fact that Pallava Kanchipuram was more cosmopolitan, welcoming many races and religions than the later Chola dynasty ever was. It is unfortunate that Sriman Kalki chose to glorify the medieval Cholas - who began with Vijayalaya Cholan - and who had nothing to do with the early Cholas - and were in consequence, a 'robber' dynasty. History will judge the Cholas for their brutal destruction of the zenith of Tamil culture built up by the glorious Pallava kings and also for introducing intolerance in Tamizhagam.
Many of us like me still treat the Chola king as Gods. One of the learned member says that Chola kings are robberers. I don’t how he comes to such conclusion. I am enclosing the IPC definition of Robbery. Can the Hon’ble member could tell which king of Cholas committed such crime? I need specific authenticated facts and proof for making such serious group defamation statement. I also request the member to refer 499 and 500 of Indian penal code.
1. They attcked and weakened the Kingdoms of Kadaram, Savakam, Java. This ultimately led to the collapse of Hindu culture there.
2. When Gajini was attacking Somnath, Rajendra Chola was attcking Bengal and weakened it. It made life easy for Muslims . ( for capturing Bengal) When Somnath was destructed, we were building Gangai Konda Cholapuram
3. The Rajaraja1, Rajendra 1, Kulothunga 1 were supposed be great kings, but they didnot do anything to help the Northern Kings who were fighting Sulatanates And Kulothunga was attacking Kalingam.
4. Even the Later Pandyas did not do any thing to support the North.
5. They did not make any attempt to know about the fire and cannon technology developing in turk/kabul.
> > Can I acuse the following on Later Cholas: > > 5. They did not make any attempt to know about the fire and cannon technology developing in turk/kabul.
even muslim invasion of 1314 of madurai did not use cannons. they may have used fire thrower variants. the cannon came into india much after the tamil culture had collapsed. it was babar who brought it.
the first cannon (midfa in Arabic) was used in a battle in palestine in 1260 between mongols and mamluksm. less than 100 years later the british and the french were using it. babars invasion introduced the firearm to india in 1526, 200 years after tamil kings ceased to be a power
Hell, we can accuse them and any other Kingdom of everything and anything. They are not here to defend :-))))
> 1. They attcked and weakened the Kingdoms of Kadaram, Savakam, Java. This ultimately led to the collapse of Hindu culture there. How so?
> 2. When Gajini was attacking Somnath, Rajendra Chola was attcking Bengal and weakened it. It made life easy for Muslims . ( for capturing Bengal) How so?
> 3. The Rajaraja1, Rajendra 1, Kulothunga 1 were supposed be great kings, but they didnot do anything to help the Northern Kings who were fighting Sulatanates And Kulothunga was attacking Kalingam. There were other mighty kingdoms between the North and Chola kingdom.
It is true that they attacked kadaram etc with a view to safeguard the Hindu culture and tamils residing there.You may please see many temples were constructed during the period and they are still exists
The comparison of rajendra with gahjini is highly hurting.You are comparing a destroyer of a temple and swindled the entire wealth with the king who constructed a temple at ganagia konda cholapuram.
The king as a quality can do help, if it is required. I hope no chola king refused to help any northern king who requests chola assistance.
Dear sir, Iam totally with you , the view point of yours is correct,we dont have any right to accuse chozhans, if they might have been like turkeys or like some others invaders,we might have been in diferent positions and more over they build lot of temple as we know. Regards;Prabhu.K
boss... please read the history and come here. during pallavas they allowed Sanskrit to flourish and spoiled our language TAMIZH. Pallavas are not south Indian.. can you tell they are from which clan???/ during sangam period what they did??? they did nothing to tamilzh culture... they followed buddishm... It is not that Mr. Kalki wrote only about PS. He wrote also about "Sivakamein Sabatham" ie in the back ground of Pallava History. But only the Chozla History captured the interest of layman like me and not the pallava histroy. Pallavas are great kings and take care of my forefather for 4-5 centuries. I am not going to hate that dynasty for the sake of your comments about Chozhas.
Invading another country is not a wrong deed in those days (even now some contries are doing that...sorry for that) please do not compare Rajendra with Gajini. The point is they were in the Northern india in war one and the same time but did not fought against each other for the reason known only to them.But this does not qualify Gajini to get compared with Rajendra...A KING. Please read some histroy about chozhas and also of foreign rules in their country and understand what chozas did for their Country and Gajini or his fellow rulers did for their countries and then come to contribute to this group.
"Rajendra weakened bengal so that bengalis lost to muslim.... " For this Rajendra has nothing to do.
Your are worrying that chozhas has did nothing to North India... (a foreign land at those time to Mr. Rajendra) but please appreciate what is happening in these 62 years for Tamil Nadu (now... one and the same country)
Sorry boss... i dnt know who you are... even you did not give your full name...but sorry you are not having any qualification to talk about chozhas...! if you want to contribute anything to this group, please do one thing... do not sent any mails to this group that itself would be a great contribution.
If the logic is " No body asked for help" from North. Then why Rajendra went to attack Bengal. Did they harm him.
The matter of fact is they were too absorbed in their own pride.
The vijayanagar empire alone can be held in esteem. Only they protected the thevaram temple. If not for them, we also will be building tempales in marble.
i was heard or learned that some one who visited orisa and bengali kings they insulted tamilans. that is one and second point is venki nattu king of rajrajachola soni-n-law died, and the west venki nattu other king make his pangaali son, as a king of east venki so rajendra has made to attack up to bengal
Mahmud of Ghazni's expeditions started in 1000 A.D. Attacks were carried out on the frontierHindu states,human captives forcefully converted to Islam, troops plundered wealth committing many barabaric acts and returned to Ghazni.Expeditions were repeatedevery winter, slowly over his 6th expedition he started holding territories in the area of present day Tanesar and North Punjab.
There were literally hundreds of kingdoms and chiefdoms in the divided Hindu land, from Jats to Chalukya Solankis, Paramars, Chouhans, Kacchwahas, Pratihara Gurjars in theNorth and West, Pala dynastyin the East, Kalyani Chalukyas, Hoisalas, Gangas of Southern Karnataka, Vengi and Cheras constituted the kingdoms of South of Vindhyas. Raja Raja had ascended to throne in 985 AD and was 15 years in to reign when Mahmud's incursions started.
RRC's task was to consolidate his empire lost to Chalukyas and Rashtrakutas and by 1014 when RC succeeded him the Cholas had become a force to reckon with. RC continued on the path of dynastic consolidation of territory, Western Chalukyas, Bhojas of Konkan and Chera Bhaskara Ravi Varma of Malabar were defeated and territory annexed to Chola kingdom.Ceylonand Maldiveswere completely defeated and annexed. Pandyas were a lost power for over a century. By 1019-20 RC joined hands with Eastern Chalukyaking by giving his daughter in marriage and further expanded his territorial boundary tpala's territory ( Orissaand Bengal)in 1023 after defeating Rattapadis in 1022. RC though defeated the Bengalking, could not hold the territory for long. He had to be satisfied by bringing stones and water from mighty river Ganges(Hoogly) and assuming the name of ‘Gangai Konda Cholan’. By that time Chola naval expeditions were started to Sri Vijaya and Kadaram. Cholas emissaries to Chinawere sent in 1012 first and that took 3 years for them to reach China. The purpose was trade and cultural exchange not primarily war and occupation.
It would be clear that Mahmud’s expeditions were very much confined to farthest North and West in a territory that was farther away from the area of operations of Cholas. The weakness of divided Hindu land was well exploited by the invading Afghan Sultan, using Khyber Passas his entry point. In all he made 17 expeditions to the region until his death in 1930, the prized pillage being the temple wealth of Somnath in 1025. His prime purpose seem to be motivated by Islamic fanaticism and teaching lessons to infidels of Hindu, Jain and Buddhist origins by targeting wealthy temples and places of worship. The plundered wealth from the Rajput kingdoms helped him to defend and expand his territory to Iranand South Central Asia. Over thirty years he left the captured territories to Hindu vassals cleverly to pit one Hindu king against the other.
To assume Cholas to be champions of Hindu cause and to confront raiders of the Hindu land is illogical because of the distance, lack of information and priority. South Indiahistorically could preserve majority of their cultural landmarks as it was insulated from the first raiders and invaders, unaffected and unchallenged. And so did Central as well as Eastern corridors of land. Each one of the dynasties was defendingits territory and consolidating and fightingits cause. It sure was unfeasible for RRC or RC to combine tens of Hindu kings along the entire territory to assemble and lead one Hindu army to fight Mahmud. An united Hindu nation concept did not exist at that time frame in history. If one existed it is logical to think that a similar initiative should have been made by those kings on attack and not by the Cholas in deep down south, busy with their agenda.
It would be however noteworthy to know that several Hindu confederate armies were assembled, in the North and Western region, to fight invading Afghan Muslim fighters during such incursions, by the Rajput and Punjab kings. Many failed and a few succeeded and Mahmud of Ghazni’s name was etched in the Indian history books as a synonym for perseverance as well as barbarism.
Dear members,Kindly see kali's reference in this issue,Dr L Kailasam தியாக சிகரம் - அத்தியாயம் 85 சிற்பத்தின் உட்பொருள்
..............குழந்தைகளே! இப்போதுங்கூட இவ்வுலகில் மௌடீக அசுர சக்திகள் இல்லாமற் போகவில்லை. இந்தப் புண்ணிய பரத கண்டத்தின் வடமேற்குத் திசைக்கு அப்பால் மௌடீக அசுர சக்திகள் சில தோன்றியிருப்பதாக அறிகிறேன். அவர்கள் மூர்க்காவேசத்துடன் போர் புரிந்து நகரங்களைச் சூறையாடிக் குற்றமற்ற மக்களைக் கொன்று கோயில்களையும் விக்கிரகங்களையும் உடைத்துத் தகர்த்து நாசமாக்குகிறார்களாம். அவர்களைத் தடுத்து நிறுத்தக் கூடிய பெரிய சக்கரவர்த்திகள் இப்போது வடநாட்டில் யாரும் இல்லையாம். இந்தத் தெய்வத் தமிழ்நாட்டுக்கு அத்தகைய கதி நேராதிருக்கட்டும். அப்படி நேர்வதாயிருந்தால், வீரமறக் குலத்தில் பிறந்த நீங்கள் அந்த அசுர சக்திகளுடன் போராடச் சித்தமாயிருக்க வேண்டுமல்லவா?" "கட்டாயம் சித்தமாயிருப்போம், தாயே! மற்றொரு வகை அசுர சக்திகளைப்பற்றியும் சொல்லுங=E
Palllava contribution to tamil. Can you please do some reading on inscriptions in seeyamangalam. Check period n verses of alwars n nayanmaars.
Pallavas followed buddhisim: this is a wrong claim. We have some pointers to mahendra following an hostile faith ( trichy upper cave, lalitangura pallava griham inscription) where he says he converted back to linga worship. Moreover his play ( written b4 this conversion) mattavilaasaprahasanam mocks both brahmins n buddhists. For that matter appar was a jain monk who converted. Pandya nedumaran had jain leanings as well for which his queen mangaiyarkarasi sought help.. I am just giving u these for ur argument. Check for the pallava king who is a nayanmaar !!
On the other hand nagapattinam flourished during rrc period, please read our archives on discussions of choodamani viharam. It was during rjc period that some issues cropped up. Sps sir has already mentioned about the chola amabassodors to chinese sung dynasty ( pl read our archives for that as well)
Jain n buddhist contributions should not be looked at it small light. Our greatest treasures ..literary art architecture ..many fields. Ajanta to sittanavasal are jain. The earliest tamil brahmi inscription is from a jain bed..
Let's first read more and equip ourselfs, before passing judgements on anyone. Katrathu kai man alavu
Sindu. Punjab, kalinga and Kadaram were all countries let us not forget that how much ever we try India as a political entity was only after the British