Hi Sir, Ramayana does precede the Mahabharata was not aware of any arguments to the contrary on this. The Saraswati dateline is interesting. the may I ask who is the Pandya king in the Mahabharat and which side he fought on?
Also both Rama and Krishna were dark skinned people themselves, the color of clouds before rain to be exact. If you look at clouds they are a dark shade of grey blue, some african americans are that color. Why would their tribe be afraid of 'other dark skinned people'?
The Mythical land of lemuria was supposed to have been existant from 350Mil to about 5000 years ago.
There have been many studies concluding that the large landmass broke into smaller islands.
The last of the islands was to have submerged in the 5500's (though the prime mass was to have sunk in 16000 BC).
The belief is that the current madurai was constructed as the pandya king was instructed by the elements of an complete disaster to submerge the tamil heartland.
The count of Pandya king Sarangadwaja who was killed by ashwatama was to have been proficient in chariots (curious aspect) as the time line was more towards the proto - indo - iranian time.
The name Sarangadwaja does not come anywhere in the list of pandya kings from the early sangam age.
There are a lot of missing links and i believe like Dwaraka they are under the ocean waiting to be brought up.
PS: I have always been curious of why tamil kings have been so attracted to the sea, i would guess its some part of their genetics :- )
If it was mere 5000 years ago, that is 3000BC. It should have been in the collective memory, right? And it would be easier to research this, as the depth of the former surface would be not way way deep.
That seems interesting, even artifacts on land are lost in a few hundred years and humans still do not possess the technology to master the ocean and I doubt if they will even after our great grand kids walk on earth.
Let us for the moment not focus on artifacts. We should be able to find land very near the current seal-level right? This piece of land should be at a higher level to the actual sea-bed. Am I missing something?
I am not sure what you are pointing at, but i believe Mdagascar was a part of ancient lemuria (for want of another term) to start with. It is definitely above sea level.
You can google for under water sonar studies / explorations on the landscapes etc.
The entire region spanning from madagascar to australia and kanyakumari to antartica has tectonic plate movements. Frequent earthquakes / volcanoes / Tsunamis are part of the plate movement.
Instead of entire land mass sinking over night, i think over period of time the land was split into multiple chunks and each was dissolved into sea. Last of the mass could have possibly been Lanka of Iravana.
Sarangadwaja alias Malayadwaja was initially Krishna's enemy and later joins pandavas. He is mentioned as a 'pandya prince' but there is no reference or evidence that these pandyas are the same as the pandya race in later Tamil Naadu. All that the Mahabharata says is
Pandya, who dwelt on the coast-land near the sea, came accompanied by troops of various kinds to Yudhistra, the king of kings (5:19). There hath come Pandya. Remarkably heroic and endued with prowess and energy that have no parallel, he is devoted to the Pandava cause. (5:22).
Is there any parellel to this Malaydhwaja and the father of Goddess Meenakshi, also a Malaydhwaja? Interesting line of thought,
Dissolved into the sea? That is little tough to digest. What I am saying is right from Madgascar to Australia we should see lots of land mass that tell us about them being submerged, right?
Dear Ravi, ( I can do some small help to you , I think) The Pandya King killed by Aswathama was Ithma Vagan. brother of Prathapa Pandian, Son of Malayathwajan. Dushyantan's grandson Asarithan, is said to have started Pandya Vamsa. Bhishma mensions Pandya Kingdom as Pandiya Rashtram (Mahabharatham)
2. Our Rajendra Chola's conquests includes countries on the otherside of Bay of Bengal. One of them is mentioned as 'ELAMURI DESAM' sounds like LEMURIA.....? There is also a small town called Madurai 3. Vamanatha Puri was the name of Mylapore in 22nd Tirthangarar Neminatha Swamy's time. At that time Tsunami attacked 2 times, and he ordered to form Mylai on the "Western side". So, eastern side drowned. 4. Manimegai tells about 'Sambadhi Vanam'. Sambadhi was Jadayu's brother. In Srilanka, onthe banks of Kalyani River, near Ruhana, there is a place Seethawake, where Sita was imprisoned. and Samantha Koodam which is named after Lakshmana and named Samana. And Ravanan Kottai is believed to be under the sea, south west of Srilanka. 5. Kapada Puram and Pahruli River are in Purananooru. (in my opinion, if we take 'Raman Ilangaiku Sellavillai' as correct, Valmiki Ramayanam Kambaramayanam, Thulasi Ramayanam, Sahasranamam, Sundara Gandam, and so many Ramanayams, Puranams like Kalki Puranam, Koorma Puranam, Garuda Puranam, Padma Puranam, Temples which are plenty for Rama, and all telling about Rama, have to be thrown into Bay of Bengal. Instead Ii is better to throw the author of that book.) Anbudan Vishwak
Is it mandatory that the land mass as islands must be seen ? So under the sea there is no land or what ?
If you could think as the land mass as a flat land or plateau thats difficult to digest, but if it is a series of low lying valleys with small mountains over unstable volcanic terrain, that can be a bit of digene.. :)
I strongly believe in Lord Rama and his journey to Ilangai, but what I am not convinced is if the Lanka where katirgamam resides is the same lanka which housed Iravana.
Its of interest that Rama is famous to the east of India and west of kanyakumari does not have any much traces comparitively?
Dear Sir, may I ask couple of clarification - if Pandya kingdom was started by Dushasana's grandson how does Bheeshma mention it? Since both pandavas and Kauravas only had sons during Bhishma's time.
Where in Mahabharat is mention of Ithma vagan and Prathaba Pandian?
Dear Member, Ithmavahan was the Pandya king who fought with Pandavas. On the 17th day battle when Aswathama attacked Yudhirshta, Dishtathyumnan, Nakula Sakadeva and Satyaki and cut off their chariots, Arjuna came for help. Before Arjuna started Ithmavahan fought with Aswathama and was killed.
Is there any timeline information that is available in Mahabharatha? Especialy like the time when the war is declared and the time actually war started? Also worthwhile information would be to see how this Pandya king would have received the invitation to side with the Pandavas and how long did it take for him to join the troop buildup from Madurai or Tamilnadu.
Since Mahabharatha has extensive astronomical details, we can look at the same objectively.
Incidentally, there is a pandya surname in Gujarat / Rajasthan communities. Just curious on what it signifies and are there any different roots that we should explore ?
Fantanstic! The analysis and discussion is very interesting. I would suggest you to take into account the four (?) yugaas - Kritha Yugam, Dhrethaa Yugam, Dhwabhara Yugam and Kali Yugam - which has some significance in calculation of years. It may be of help and the discussion may be further interesting.
When a Chera king could make a North Indian King Kanaga Vijayan carry stone from the Himalayas to build temple in Tamilnadu and similarly a Pandya King could hoist hisnational flag carrying "fish" as his logo ( this answers the interesting question of how deeply the Pandya Kings were interested in maritime warfare/trade).
The above aspects of history are quite interestingly covered in the song "Accham Enbathu Madamaiyadaa",a song written by Kannadhaasan (or is it Pattukkottai Kalyanasundaram?) and composed by Viswanathan-Ramamoorthy and sung by TMS for MGR in the film "Mannaadhi Mannan".
Th e statements that Cheras and paandyas reached the himaalayas, and put their flags and emblem there just dont hold water. 1) Consider the distances, and the size of the country of the rajas involved, viz., too far in the south -- to very far nothwards 2) That Doyen of Chola history Neelakanda Saasthri says ' the inscription s could not have been further than the Vindhyas [ a sunstansial distance for that time] 3) He also points out that, even Arayan Rajarajan, Rajendras general who brought water from the ganges[ hundreds of years later] had a rapid moving expeditionaryforc only[ as opposed to a larger 'conquering' one] . Rajendra waited at the banks of the godavari, still further south-- All this points to those 2 claims to be exagerated, probably suitable for that time [ today, every 2 weeks ganges water is flown to gangai konda cholapuram temple, in order that ganges water perpetually drips on the mulathaana brihadeesvara..
from Ellaar See ( L R C ) No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. [ NO relation to the string theory OR the UNIFIED theory of nearly everything ]
YUGAMS - Krutha yugam - 17,28,000 years Thredha yugam - 12,96,000 years Dwapara yugam - 8,64,000 years Kali yugam - 4,32,000 years Total 43,20,000 years - Sathur yugam or Mahayugam
further it goes like this : 71 Sathur yugam - 1 Manvandhram 18 Sathur yugam - 1 Manu Rajyam 74 Manu Rajyam - 1 Indra Rajyam 270 Indra Rajyam - 1 Brhma's 1 Day 30 Brahma's days x 12 = 1 Brahma year 100 Brahma years - 1 Brahma's end. 360 Brahmas - 1 Pralayam 100 Pralayam = 1 Vishnu Karpam and it goes further.