For a change throwing this in....just a few points for interested people to talk of ( this is just a draft - pl correct me if i am wrong)
Chola coinage:
uttama coin - seated tiger only with fish ( two fish hanging on a line - how symbolic - but why two fish), no bow - note the seated tiger always has the royal umbrella over its head. somtimes its shown with two chowries ( fly wisks)
then comes our beloved RRC - he has the seated tiger with similar two fish and bow ....maybe after kandalur salai conquest of chola
rajendra goes one more step... fish,bow plus a royal parasol, in his seal he adds the boar ( royal parasol - the vijaya throna - boar...chalukya?) and some of his coins have a seated tiger on the other side and a seated human facing it...( i have read somewhere that the human figure came after the occupation of lanka...taking on some lankan coin design)
rajadhiraja ... a human figure seated in front of the tiger and the other side a standing human figure ....
If you see the coins, you can clearly see that the text in those coins is not in Tamil. They are either of Nagari or Sanskrit(??). Were Nagari and Sanskrit in vogue during the chola rule? Even if they were, wouldnt tamil have made the correct choice for the text that went in the coins? When all the inscriptions are in tamil, why are the coins in sanskrit?
Is it because chola coins were accepted in other parts of Bharat as well? sanskrit was the unofficial common language understood by some people at least everywhere. Inscriptions are for local people, especially when they are dealing with local issues, local language is the obvious choice.
Thats one of the angles. It could have been because of the extent of trade we had with various parts extending upto kadaram.So, they needed a language that could provide a link. But within any country(especially Tamilnadu), Sanskrit was used by only a few elite and the scholarly. Common man used only Tamil. So, i would require both Tamil and Sanskrit to be used, to be comprehended by both the locals and those outside the chola dominion. With only Sanskrit being used, did the chola kings assume that their citizens would identify their coins and their country only based on the images(or seals) embossed on them? So, this places a lot of emphasis on the pictograph rather than on the text.
Thanks for this part of conversation! I was angry and frustrated on seeing why these coins contain these sanskrit letters when our divine language is there!
Now im happy that its because we did trade - unlike others - throughout the country!!
Please don't get too emotional. It is hindrance to finding the actual truth, that is why we have different versions of story for each incident. Tamizh is great and our kings are great that doesn't mean that other languages and kings are not comparable.
Mr.Ramachandran, Epigraphist, TN State Archeology (if my memory servers correct), once gave a lecture to our group members and said, there is a lot of Misconception about Sanskrit today. Sanskrit was the official language of the yester years and almost everyone knew it, unlike today. Today our coins have English and Hindi and not tamil of any native language. Even illiterate villagers use terms like 'form','application', can identify what denomination the coin/currency is even if they are not able to read what is written on it.
So I feel that, saying Sanskrit was used only by elite is a misconception. It was used as we use English today. We all know why we dont know Sanskrit in today's world.
That's a valid point Satish. But if most of the people (if not all) knew sanksrit, then why they used Tamil in the inscriptions instead of the same sanksrit they used in coins? Since most of their citizens knew sanksrit, it would have made sense for the rulers to etch their achievements in sanksrit, so that even other state people read and understood them when they came here. Or did they also have inscriptions in sanskrit? If so, what happened to them? were they vandalised or lost? Or do such inscriptions exist now(of the tamil rulers)?
And lastly, i can agree with sanksrit. But why Nagari?
while on that subject, minting gold chola goins does feature predominantly in PS. where all apart from minting did the master discuss fanam or panam in PS, ss or pk.....
I have not still understood why the title, the cast and support staff are all first shown in English, and then in Tamil in all Tamil movies. Perhaps the mindset of the film producers may give a clue.
I have read another topic that during the first "Kudamuzhukku" of the Great Thanjai Temple, a fire accident happened! and scholars say that its because that during the construction of the Temple, they agreed to do the mantrams in Tamil. But they didnt do that it seems. That's why the accident caused....
During the recent 'Kudamuzhukku also there was a fire accident. Again the same reason. the mantrams were in Sanskrit but not in Tamil.
P.S: according to the agama vidhi, everybody agreed that the rituals will happen only in Tamil. (ofcourse our RRC loves Tamil and no wonder he must have agreed to that)
Can anybody comment on this and clarify my doubt, please?
I am no expert, but still putting forth my thoughts. We had a discussion on 'UTHAMA'. Some said its tamil and others said Sanskrit. Though its Sanksrit, many think its tamil because of its common usage. So common people do not know the difference between languages is my humble opinion. Commonly used words are common among common people and thats why its common (visu nyabagam varudha).
Even today, govt letter heads will have the title and other top portion of the letter head printed in English, but the actual content of the letter can be in Tamil. Why? Do you have an answer? If yes, the same applies to epigraph as well. even if you dont have an answer, the same applies to epigraph :) (cha enakku theriyalangaratha eppadi poosi mozhuga vendiyirukku)
> > > Or did they also have inscriptions in sanskrit? If so, what happened > > > to them? were they vandalised or lost? Or do such inscriptions exist > > > now(of the tamil rulers)?
Ok, this question has to be answered and answered once for all. thanks to legends like Dr Nagaswamy, we have these resources....warning you before, its a long article - maybe you will realise how much or how little is known to us, truly katrathu kai man alavu....
THE ESLAM COPPER PLATE OF RAJENDRA The Eslam copper plate grant of Rajendra Cola is the third charter of the ruler to have been found so far. The Tiruvalangadu plates(5. South Indian Inscriptions Vol. III Part III nº 205, p. 383-439, Madras, 1920.) issued in his sixth year, and the Karandai copper plates issued in his 8th year are the two charters of this ruler found earlier. The Karandai plates(6. K. G. Krishnan, Karandai Tamil Sangam plates of Rajendra Chola I, Memoirs of the Archaeological Survey of India, Nº 79, New Delhi, 1984.) is by far the biggest royal charter to have been found inscribed on copper sheets-anywhere in India. It records the creation of a brahmadeya and gift of lands to 1080 Brahminds. Both the Tiruvalangadu and Esalam grants, relate to the gift of devatana taxes to temples and hence would fall under the same class of grants. Interestingly both were found within the temples and along with bronze images. Obviously both were buried in troubed times to safeguard the bronzes and the charters. The larger Leiden grant(7.Epigraphia Indica XXII, p. 213.) was made by Rajaraja Cola but issued by Rajendra; with that, the total number would be four. The Eslam grant is interessting as it refers to the construction of the temple by Rajendra's Rajaguru and was found in the same temeple premises. The village was a suburb of Rajaraja-caturvedi-mangalam (Ennayiram) where Rajendra established one of the biggest vedic colleges. Nearby is Brahmadesam where there are Chola temples. The importance of the place,and what prompted the Rajaguru to select this place,and other problems deserve special study which we propose to take up later. The charter consists of fifteen copper sheets engraved on both sides, fastened to a ring, which is sealed at the mouth with the royal insignia of emperor Rajendra Cola (Ph.16 and 17). The whole charer is intacat without any damage, except the last sheet which is slightly broken at the bottom in a corner. A very insignificant breakage is also noticed in the last but one sheet. Since the last sheet has been bearing the weight during its burial and handling, it shows faint tearing near the ring hole and a hair line crack below. Otherwise the charter is in a very good state of preservation. MEASUREMENTS Plates: length : 34.0 cm. breadth : 16.5 cm. thickness : 4.0 cm. Ring: diameter : 34.0 cm. thickness : 2.0 cm. Seal: diameter : 13.5 cm. The plates are numbered serially (Ph.18 to 47). The charter is in two parts, the first part in Sanskrit and the second part in Tamil. The Sanskrit part covering three plates and a part of the front page of the fourth plate is written in grantha characters, while the Tamil part is in Tamil letters of the Cola age. A. THE ENGRAVER The care with which the charter is engraved shows that it is the work of a royal scribe. The Sanskrit part of the grant gives the name of the engraver as Ulakalanta-chola Acaryan. The inscription of the seal is also in grantha characters and is preserved in excellent condition. The engraving on the plates is uniformly good except at a few places. The Karandai plates of Rajendra was engraved by different persons whose names are given as Tribhuvanamadevi Peracarya and Rajendrasimha Peracarya. The Tiruvalangadu plates were engraved by four acarya-s,three of whom were also the engravers of Larger Leiden grant of Rajendra.Two amongst them were the engravers of Karandai plate. The engraver of the Esalam plate is different whose name was Ulagalanta Acari. The name Vasudeva occurs at the end of the Sanskrit part of the Esalam plate. A certain Vasudevan, son of Krishnan, is known among the family of engravers (K.G.K.P. 54) but he had the title Rajaraja peracaryan who was one of the engravers of Leiden plates. It is difficult to say whether the engraver of Esalam plates is identical with or related to Vasudevan of Leiden grant. Sri Krishnan holds that the word kastakari ascribed to the engravers in the Karandai plates indicates that they were carpenters by profession. "Kashtakari" is a Sanskrit coinage of the word "taksaka" tacca) which actually means silpin-s and no carpenters. Several inscriptions use this term "kashtakari",in the sense of sthapathi-s, silpin-s, architects. Krishnan's view needs to be revised. Silpin-s of great accomplishment were in the employ of the kings to engrave their royal charters. B. THE POET-COMPOSER The Sanskrit portion of the Esalam grant was composed by poet Narayana Kavi, son of Sankara, a resident of Parsvagrama. It is the same poet who composed the Tiruvalangadu and Karandai plates of Rajendra. K. G. Krishnan suggests that the same Narayana was also the composer of Larger Leiden Grants (P. 53) which is not unlikely. It is clear that almost from the 5th year of Rajendra to his 25th year, this poet has been occupying an important position in the court of Rajendra Cola. One of the verses found in the Karandai plates is verbatim used in the Esalam plates. Krishnan's identification of the village Parsvagrama with the village Kottaiyur a nearby (Parsvagrama) of the lands gifted in Karandai plates, needs revision in the light of this grant. C. AJNAPTI The anjapti of this Esalam grant was Narakkan Marayan Jananathan alias Rajendra Cola Brahmamarayan. In the Sanskrit portion he is called Jananatha, son of Raman. The Karandai plates mention the very same Jananatha as mantrin, minister, to king Rajendra, and was the vijnapti of that grant. Obviously he occupied this high post under Rajendra from his 8th year to his 25th year. He was one of the sons of Krishnan Raman, who was called Rajendra Cola Brahmamarayan. Krsnan Raman from the same village- -Keralantaka caturvedi-mangalam, in Vennadu, in Uyyakondar valanadu, was the commander in chief of Rajaraja. He erected the enclosure t
for those who want to give this a serious thought ( not for the light hearted) - these are not studies but a penance...and the greats share it with us....maybe they will light a spark in someone of us who will then take on the torch sorry task...
(do hv some patience in going through the whole article - there is a beautiful comparison of chola goldcoins and its value measured in terms of cost for burning of the perpetual lampin the various villages/districts)