Foreign Connection in Ponniyin Selvan
  • Friends,

    Have we discussed the following topic?

    "Tamils' connection with foreigners in Ponniyin Selvan"

    If not, will one of you start the thread? I read PS longgggg back and
    am not equiped. :(

    Will tell you in my next post what prompted this.

    anpudan,
    Mathy
  • Friends,

    Most of you know Mr.Harikrishnan (Hari aNNa to some of us). A while
    ago, he had written something very interesting. It was forwarded
    recently to 'maraththadi' with his permission and sparked a few
    comments. The original and the comments are to follow:

    Those who cannot read Tamil fonts please use Krupa's Kadalaimittai or

    http://www.suratha.com/reader.htm go here and choose TSC and read in
    UNICODE.

    «ýÒ ¿ñÀ÷¸§Ç,
    ¿ÁÐ †Ã¢Âñ½¡ ±Ø¾¢Â ´Õ «üÒ¾Á¡É ¸ðΨè «ÅÃÐ «ÛÁ¾¢§Â¡Î
    ¯í¸û À¡÷¨ÅìÌì
    ¦¸¡ñÎ ÅÕ¸¢§Èý.

    ±ýÚõ «ýÒ¼ý,
    KVR
  • I'll start this off - I think everyone remembers the 'comedy' episode in
    volume 5 - 'cheenathu varthagargal' where Arunmozhi and Vandhiyathevan
    impersonate 2 chinese traders who are selling silks. They, after
    Poonguzhali reveals their identity, admit they actually bought them from
    a couple of real Chinese traders who are traveling in chola desam then.
    That's the one instance I can remember off the top off my head.

    -latha
  • tamils with foreigners in PS is very limited inlike Sandilyan who always likes to potray a westerner as a tamil's sidekick ( Yavanarani...Ilanchezian+Hippalas(Greek),
    Kadal pura Ilayapallavan+Amir(arab),
    Vijayamahadevi ...Vijayabahu+Moorsamath) Kalki neverdoes that in his story lines...


    His mention of foriegners from memery are the following

    Arulmozhi escorting two chinese traders in Thambalai
    Aniruther explaining about Arabs who plunder tamil temples and how tamils will safegaurd the temples and heritage
    Horse traders in Ceylon and suravali
    and ofcourse the fifth volume poli chinese travellers

    The interesting fact is The practice of LADAM for HORSES is it a Post PS custom in INDIA...Waht do u say
    Thilak???
  • Hi all,

    As far as I remember, not much of information about foreign
    connection is there in PS, except for the poli vedam, and arabu
    kuthiraigal etc., But in SS info on foreign vaanibham is elaborately
    given. Maamallapuram thuraimugathirkku vandhu irangum velinaattu
    porutkal, ingirundhu anuppapadum porutkal, ivatrai patriyellam
    virivaaga kodukkapattirukkum. I just remember this but I don't
    remember which all places are covered in SS.

    Krupa is the one who is reeeeeeaaaaaaaaading SS now. so I think he
    will be the best person to elaborate upon this.

    I think even in parthiban kanavu he had mentioned about foreign
    yaatrigargal who came to Narashima pallavan's court. "arabu
    vaanibhargal kadar kollai seivathaagavum and avargalai adakka kori
    vanighargal narasimha pallavanidam muraiyiduvadhaagavum" varum endru
    ninaikiren.
  • Hi

    If its just mention of foreign trade even in PS he describes it well both about mammalapuram and nagai

    mammalapuram in the background of aditha karikalans discussion with parthibendran and miladudaiyar

    and nagapattinam in a few places..
  • ayyo akka... I could not proceed after that Sivagaami's encounter
    with narashima pallavan (a village in that floody night)...so, not
    really much...

    adhanaala, Thilak sonna maadiriyae, "ditto" poadarane...

    but...in PonniyinSelvan:

    I remember something being said about Saavaga Theevu (Indonesia!?).
    And someone says about Arul Mozhi, "oru gumbal kadavulin silaigalai
    udaippadhai punniyamaana kaariyamaaga ninaiththu kondu irukkiradhu.
    adhu padai yeduththu nammudaya baaradha naattu yellaikkul vandhu
    kondu irukkiradhu....avargalai thaduththu niruththi nammudaya
    kalaachchaaraththai kaakka vaendaama?" or something like that.

    So, it does imply that there are BUSINESSMEN going to and fro Arab
    Countries via Kashmir, Pak, Afganisthan, etc., is not it?

    krupa
  • No krupa
    It is a reference to future Arab invaders or the invaders then

    There is also mention of Islam when Parthibendran proposes to NAndhini and says there is a religeon in the west where mana nad wife can sepaerate and remarry we ll go there
    moonram baagam in Kodikarai
  • Friends,

    I remember the 'Arabiargal' who catch hold of the Chola Naattu Marakkalangal at Thirigonamalai - Yaanai Iravu Thurai, when Arulmozhi Varman, (takes charge of being Yaanai Paagan along with Poonguzhali), and travels on an elephant inorder to surrender himself to the Kalapathi who has come to arrest him. And, the experience my Favourite Vandhiyathevan has with those Arabians.... Wow!! I can just visualise it!!

    And also, there are some mentions about the 'Arabiya Uyar Jaadhi Kudhirai' which Oomai Rani uses (in the same chapters).. And, VD makes 'Kulambu' for his horse, on his way back from Kodikkarai to Pazhayaarai.

    Also, should we consider the Sri Lankan part of PS / Buddhist monks as Foreign or is it a part of PS-Local?
  • Suji!
    ThirukONamalai (Trincomalee) is in the eastern part of Sri Lanka. And Yanaiyiravuththurai is in the northern part of Sri Lanka (In YaazhppaaNam / Jaffna). Both are about 250 km apart.
    ThirukONamalai has the world famous natural harbour with deep sea. And Yanaiyiravuththurai is in the lagoon (not a sea-port).
    anpudan,
    vijayaalayan
  • Dear JB sir!

    While I accept about the changes in the geography, there cannot be any connections between the thirukONamalai and yanaiyiravuththurai just within 1000 years.

    Because thirukONamalai is a famous place because of the thirukkONEswaram temple (on which both appar & sampanthar sang lyrics hundreds of years ago) and the natural harbour. The name thirikONamalai (==> ThirukONamalai) came because of the 3 hills situated there. It is exactly located in the East of the island.

    Yanaiyiravuththurai (also known as Elephant-pass) is situated in the neck part of the island facing the Jaffna (yaazhppaaNam) lagoon. Throughout the history of the island yaanaiyiravuththurai is a battle field where several wars took place (over thousands of years). And due to the recent war between SL Army and Tigers in the year 2000 where over 2500 fighters died on both sides within few days, it is named as the most disastrous battle-field in the world.

    Therefore there is no reason for messing up thirukONamali and yaanaiyiravuththurai. And for any clarifications you can see any sri lankan maps as both these places are marked in most of the Sri Lankan maps.

    anpudan,
    vijayaalayan.
  • Dear JB sir!
    Very Sorry! Yes it was a misunderstanding.
    I agree that there is a submerged part of the temple in the sea (of the thirukONamalai) as I go there very often.
    Due to the Portugese destroyed the kovil (kONEswaram) which is thousands of year old, lot of historical evidents disappeared. Still some stone-carvings (kalvettu) can be seen along the wall of the Fredrick Fort (the fort which was built using the stones obtained by destroying the temple).
    I feel very sad about the fate of the temple for last few centuries and the recenttimes.
    Now (after the ceasefire) we are allowed to enter the temple, but, still no one is allowed to go to the holy water (theerththam).
    Have you been to Sri Lanka?
    anpudan,
    vijayaalayan
  • Hi Suma!

    >Just curious; Are you from there?

    My origin is Jaffna and as my sister's and brother's families are living in Trinco, I visit there very often. And, also for my official work (SLT) I go there.

    >¾£÷ò¾Óõ ¿¼ó¾¢ÕôÀ¾¢§Ä ²Ðõ º¢ì¸Ä¢Õó¾¢Õ측Р±ýÚ ¿¢¨É츢ý§Èý.

    still there is no response for the request by the temple trust for opening the spot for public (or handing over to the temple) daily. we can't go there whenever we wish.

    And thanks for the nice links with info about ThirukONamalai. Just for your info, nowadays there is a series of article written on Sudaroli on this topic.

    anpudan,
    vijayaalayan
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