I read it just now. That was really interesting. If there are vested parties, why cant we create an awareness. Can we influence it through the CM, who would definitely support anything to establish the antiquity of the Tamizhs. With so many high profile persons in our group, can we reach the CM some how and make an awareness on this.
The work with archeology is commendable and the article is impressive.
To start, there is a quote in Kandar Anubuthi "Yaam odhiya kalviyum, yem arivum, thaame pera velavar thandathanaal, Poo mel mayal poi, arra mei punarvir namir nadaveer nadaver iniye In short (It would take atleas 2 pages to explain these two lines in detail): The knowledge we get imparted by ur curiosity, books, learning is what Lord Muruga gives. True knowledge is what we get on uttering the Name of the Lord. That is obtained by breaking the shield of worldly knowledge (poo mel mayal poi - arra mei punarvir).
The history of Lord muruga from sangam - as per the article is like identifying the million piece puzzle game with two or three units.
Strictly going by the article, I would like to question the basics of their thought process. Killing God ? Muruku means youthful splendor. Before going further, I would tell one more information on the difference between Skanda and Palani andavar. Each are a version of the Paramaatma at diffrent times and different planes and different needs of Karma balances. He is stated as Velakkara kadavul as he vouches the protect the devotee at any cost. In fact, if you observe well, he has not killed even Sooran. Murugan sooranai 'thaduthu aatkondan'.
We have learned to read and see things sequentially that we fail to understand the parallel words or existances or the time differences etc.
Skanda as Devasenapathi was one such form of the Lord Almighty, that form he took to equate Suran. It has no relation to the Palani andavar or Vayalur murugan or so on so forth. Each one is an avatar and each one has a different purpose, they all are the base paramatma. Muruganai pol santha swaroopiyum illai, skandanai pol akrosham kondvarum illai. No wonder, many people in north who pray Karthikeya do not know the existance of Valli amma, this avatar is only here in our backyard.
The article however brings to light some interesting aspects on the sangam and other parts that point me to lean that the base for the writing comes from Ceylon. Kathirgamam is the place where Aruva vazhibadu happens today, according to legend, Brahma took the form of a hunter and prayed to the Lord. Quote here: Thirupugazh Song 'Aharamum aagi Athibanum aagi',Location: Palamuthir solai: "Vana murai vedan aruliya poosai , magizh kathir kaamam udayone" Hunters , spirit of forest and God of Love - fertility whatever (Kamam), these are purely related to Kathir Kamam.
Also, I would be curious to know the mood of the person researching the colors of Mayon and Murugavel. Black and Red with anger ? How about this line of thought, the early morning dawn afer a dark night? The dawn is symbolized by the sounding of a Cock and the Darkness is needed to see the dawn, they do not exist without each other. Irul illamal oli illai, Maal illamal Mal marukan illai, both darkness and light are the forms of the same entity. Irulai irul aaki oliyai tharuvaan.
I personally think it is ignorance to classify the Lord of Knowledge to domestication of cock and primitive thoughts on peacock or elephant. Going by this scale, how would we explain a hayagreeva or moshika vaahanan?
The history of the Lord's worship (relationship) with mankind cannot be traced thus, it would be like measuring the ocean with a foot scale. We are not even in a stage to figure out where is the resting place of the great king who walked our country, we definitely do not have the capacity to speculate on the ever living beyond the concept of 'time'.
Long story short - Rishi moolam - nadhi moolam ....
Hi, Very true - The knowledge we get imparted by ur curiosity, books, learning is what Lord Muruga gives. My interest is Tamil Literature itself was gift of Lord Muruga. The first book I read about Tamil Literature is Smile of Murugan by Kamil V Zvelebil.
It again true that a ocean cannot be measured in 10 pages of my article. Characteristics of a society is reflected in the god they worship.My basic motif in writing this article is to analyse how the changes in society in pre historic times have possibly changed the characteristics of the god we know. Even if some of these hypotheses are true , Lord Murugan might turn out to be the Oldest surviving god in India pre dating the Vedic religion by many thousand years. There are clear literature evidence that Murugan known in early Sangam literature like Purananuru Kurunthokai etc has evolved and attained various characteristics which was not know before in the late sangam literature like Paripatal, Thirumurugatrupadai.
The reasons for this change is attributed to Aryanisation or Sanskiritisation of the south. Similarly this God Murugan must have attained various characteristics with time in pre history, my article is very outline of possible changes in society which has caused this change in characteristics of the god.
My article is more in the sense to analyse when and why possibly Murugan could have been associated with cock rather than analysing various philosophies behind the cocks association with Murugan. There are various reasons including knowledge and fertility for Murugan's association with cock.But there is no proof that cock was domesticted before 800-700 BC. My intention at that point is more towards the domestication of Cocks would have been the probable time when Murugan got associated with cock.The reason he might be attributed cock is unkown since there is no written or archaeological evidence.But the most possible reason is either fertility or knowledge.
The nature of murugan as 'Hunters ,spirit of forest and God of Love - fertility whatever' can be traced to sangam literature. I can quote many sangam poems in case if you would like to review them.
And regarding etymology of Murugan(intitally know as Murukan) I am quoting I.Mahadevan below " Much of the later Tamil literature, and virtually all the Tamil inscriptions and iconographic motifs have been heavily influenced by the Sanskritic traditions of Skanda-Karttikeya-Kumara and have very little in common with the primitive muruku except the name Murukan.39 Even the meaning of his name has undergone a radical transformation from muruku `the demon or destroyer' to Murukan `the beautiful one', consistent with the later notion that gods must be `beautiful' and demons `ugly'. As P.L. Samy points out in his incisive study of Murukan in the Cankam works, there is no support for the later meaning in the earliest poems. He derives muruku (Murukan) and murukku `to destroy' from Dr. muru-, and endorses the identification of Murukan with muradeva (a class of demons) mentioned in the Rgveda, as proposed by Karmarkar.40
39. The earliest epigraphic reference to Murukan in Tamilnadu is found in the Tiruttani (Velancheri) Plates of Pallava Aparajitavarman (ca. 900AD); R. Nagaswamy. Sculptures of Murukan begin to appear only from the Pallava-Early Pandya Period (from ca. 7-8 cent. AD). For a comprehensive treatment of the iconography of Murukan in Tamilnadu, see L'Hernault.
40. P.L. Samy, pp. 9-16, 96. A.P. Karmarkar, p.128. it is significant that the name mura in the RV is derived by Sayana from the root with the meaning marana `killing'."
I do understand and appreciate the philosophy of Murgan in Sangam literature where he dosen't kill Curan instead transforms him into Cock and a peacock.
I surely have not tried to question any philosophy of Murugan and rather I have tried to say Origins of Murugan is way far beyond the time limit we usually think .
And to end I would always like to say ' History of south India is History of Murugan'. My whole essay is in a Historical point of view rather than Philosophical point of view.
Hi, Thank you for your valuable comments. I will edit my article soon and give more references and footnotes with more quotes from Sangam Literature(Murugan as hill deity and various rituals performed to him). I had lot of data and reference but I am very very new to writing hence i could not decide how much to write and where I should stop or go further. Though I had finished reading some literature before hand, it still took me 3 days continuously to read about Indus valley script and various critics about it and pre history of South India. Hindu article also gave me a clue that Sri Lankan pre history connected with Tamil Nadu pre history. So I had lot of things to write , I seriously didnt know what to delete and what to add.
I would surely go through the articles you have suggested me to read. There is an extensive literature about Kamakshi Meenakshi and Neli getting integrated into the Brahminic relegion , the book is ' Tamil Temple myths' By David Shulman. This book is considered to be very important literature since it throws light into early Tamil religious beliefs and rituals.I have this book right now with me and I have finished around 40 pages out of 400 Pages. I have long way to go.
Adichinallur excavation has also had possiblity of one more male deity with a trident. He might be a Proto form of Shiva(mere speculation as of now).
I once again thank you for reading my essay and giving me valuable comments.
We can take this discussion offline and communicate via email if you would be interested in a longer discussion. Your research and article is very valid as it is He who prompts your work. Who knows what He has in store :-)
But to read him based out of physical evidence only in a specific context will not be sufficient. my first intutive question would be - where was the first sangam formed ? Ceylon or Andaman or southern TN or .... as in some theories...Lemuria? Nakeerar - was he from the 1st sangam or any subsequent sangam? I am yet to find any convincing evidences to this.
>Characteristics of a society is reflected in the god they > worship. I would contest this, I believe God has no charecterstics, it is we with our infinite karma and grossly msconstrued know it all knowledge create charecterstics. He is Formless as in Kadirgama, but He (God in General) is the very form of all of us. Prahalathan and Hiryanya created Narasimha, Suran created Skanda, Mahisasuran created Durga so on and so forth.
Your research points to the charecterstics of the Lord as humans evolved, my point is humans became what He wanted us to become. Murugan associated with cock as we begun domesticating the fowl is not very convincing to me, I do value every scientific thought, I am fascinated by the Lord's way to keep us intrigued. This statement however cannot be justified. We do not have enough evidence that the seval was NOT associated with the Lord prior to 800 BC.
Now going back to the statement of Kannadasan, "Kodi asainthathum katru vanthatha - katru vandathum - kodi asainthatha". That is something to be considered as a stream while researching.
God of love & war, fertility etc being associated with Murgan is like a daily routine, He who is also the creator of the world, the protector and the destroyer, as a creator, fertility is vital for sristi to happen. Thirupugazh song on Parankundram - 'Karuvadainthu pathu': last lines say " Ayanayum pudaithu sinanthu - ulagamum padaithu parinthu".
Moods and swings of the author must be taken into count. Nakkerar, thought process when he wrote the murugatru padai must be taken into count, his mind frame should be given enough credit too.
By your intensive study, I will be curious to know the dates of Palani or Thiruchendur or the syambu murthy of thiruporur or the swyambu vel at Solai malai. I believe the time of Bogar was prior to Nakeerar. I agree that pallava and chola kings did help with the temples and architecture. I will be interested in knowing more on specific temples (cave and shore) such as Thiruporur, Chendur and Valli malai. Please do post them if you can.
Again, I apprecite and applaud your work as it really is of great interest in my line. Research history of how we are connected to him is fine but the other way around is not something that can be implored without creating controversy.
I second that. Nijamana vairam. Historians don't have to be believers by the way and it is possible to write about origins of religious deities without offending religious sentiments. Thiru Vairam has done that remarkably well.