I mentioned that the paintings listed in the site looked amateurish - not in the same class even to the chola murals - understand now - they belong to later period..
but still, regarding the chola murals -
the tirpurantaka ( chola monalisa - if i may use the term - only for the smile)
Sundaramurthy nayanar and cherman perumal ..
are masterpieces - for their content & concept ( once someone explains the same to you)- intellectually i accept them as masterpeices of composition - but i still feel the execution is not in the same class as Ellora / Chithannavasal.
meaning when you stand in front of a chola stone sculpture or their bronze - there is a spark that ignites in you. The art of ellora/chithanavasal works - are embodiments of grace. the emotions and body language in their composition is divine. somehow feel its lacking in the above - they dont evoke the same sense of awe and spontaneous joy as the rest of their pursuits.
to take the argument further:
even the famous ( ok we can argue for that as well) depiction of rrc with karuvurar -
you can see that the canons are not followed - the body proportions, the size of the face, to the eyes, to the nose ( rrc face is almost round like a ball and the jawline is non existent - leaving a wide skewed face) - the proportion of the torso to the limbs - the grace of the hand postures - the classic Tribhanga posture not to be seen. see the position of the feet of the so called arulmozhi - as you face the painting the right feet is painted awkwardly turned left ( ask any kid to draw his mummy/daddy or a man - both the feet will be depicted sideways)-
as you mature as an artist you are thought to draw things with perspective - another key lacking feature - eg the depiction of nataraja - is totally lacking in perspective - unidimensional. compared to this the ajanta paintings depict a very mature understanding of perspective
complex compositions - most of the panels depict single scenes and the painters skill in fusing two moods into one etc- but the ajanta panels were masterly compositions of multiple frames into the same feature.
i might be wrong on this one - but the painters lacked aesthetics - most often the subtle decorations are conspicuous by their absence - the flowery motiffs that were masterly used to fill up the available space around the compositions in the ajanta works are conspicous by their absence in these.
for a purist i stand by my initial words in grading chola mastery thus - chola bronze > chola stone >>>chola mural.
on a lighter note, i remember reading a joke about aishwarya rai
a fan coming out of wax museum in london commenting - how real like
a fan coming out of a theatre after watching rai commenting - how wax like....
I am a rather silent observer in this fascinating group and thought i would involve myself in this topic of discussion.
Slightly digressing from the discussion, i want somebody to clear my doubt!
> * even the famous ( ok we can argue for that as well) depiction of rrc > with karuvurar - > > http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2121/stories/20041022000406400.htm > > you can see that the canons are not followed - the body proportions, > the size of the face, to the eyes, to the nose ( rrc face is almost > round like a ball and the jawline is non existent - leaving a wide > skewed face) - the proportion of the torso to the limbs - the > grace of the hand postures - the classic Tribhanga posture not to be > seen. see the position of the feet of the so called arulmozhi - as > you face the painting the right feet is painted awkwardly turned > left ( ask any kid to draw his mummy/daddy or a man - both the feet > will be depicted sideways)- > > * > * > * >
I want to know if the sage karuvurar is wearing a sacred thread( punal) ???, *If so then it has been represented in the wrong direction.* The thread seems to running in the opposite direction( quiet contrary to normal way) . The thread always goes over the left shoulder and beneath the right arm. but in the mural it has been depicted in the wrong direction.
Please correct me if my observation is wrong!
Also i agree with Mr. vijays views that Murals in the big temple are not as inspirational as cholza bronze. A possible explanation could be that they were done in haste! I have heard of information about the massive delay in time while constructing the big temple . And it is perhaps because of this reason that the sarfoji kings decided to cover them with better murals!
A possible explanation could be that they > were done in haste! I have heard of information about the massive delay in > time while constructing the big temple . And it is perhaps because of this > reason that the sarfoji kings decided to cover them with better murals!
Hi Raghavendra
or could it be because of the nature of painting. i remember those at tanjore telling us these frescoes were painted over a paste spread on the wall and that which was not painted within 24 hours would not stick. thoughit might not be as strict as that , i am sure a group of painters worked fast in turns. this could account for the mistakes.
Theres also this tradition of wearing the poonol right to left for fatherless people... though this, I can recollect happens only momentarily during the avaani avattam or during the death ceremonies of the father... could the portrayal have been one of these occasions? or maybe more learned people may say - were sanyasis allowed to wear it right to left always?
fresco technique consists of painting in pigment mixed with water on a thin layer of wet, fresh, lime mortar or plaster, for which the Italian word for plaster, intonaco, is used. Due to the chemical makeup of the plaster, a binder is not required, as the pigment mixed solely with the water will sink into the intonaco, which itself becomes the medium holding the pigment. The pigment is absorbed by the wet plaster; after a number of hours, the plaster dries and reacts with the air: it is this chemical reaction which fixes the pigment particles in the plaster.
You are right.. The poonal is worn in the wrong direction only during the death ceremonies of ancestors! and as for sanyasis i am not aware of any rule which specify that poonal must be in opposite direction. (and as of today only the sri vaishnava tradition sanyasis wear the poonal )..
somehow the mural appeals to me as a distinct representation of something else, considering this to be a mistake of very big magnitude(probably would have cost the artist heavily considering the fact that guru karuvurar occupied a highly important place amongst the chola royals!!! ).. Maybe Mural depicts a mirror reflection??? ( highly improbable though.. )
These Chola masterpieces differ vastly from the Ajanta murals. The Ajanta artists used the easier tempera technique whereas the Chola artists opted for the difficult fresco technique, covering some 7,200 square feet of wall area...
checked more>>>
Tempera painting is executed with pigment ground in a water-miscible medium. The word tempera originally came from the verb temperthat is, "to bring to a desired consistency"; dry pigments are made usable by "tempering" them with a binding and adhesive vehicle. Such painting was distinguished from fresco painting, the colours for which contained no binder
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The painting medium used throughout the ancient world consisted of tempera, a mixture composed of color pigments extracted from minerals, egg yolk used as an adhesive, and water to liquefy the paint. The distinctive qualities of this medium, which permits the placing of one layer upon another, are its opacity, produced by repeated coats of a single tone; it opalescence, produced by painting lighter tones over a dark, single tone; its transparency, produced by painting darker tones over a lighter, single tone. The surface to be painted upon was often prepared with a thin coating of plaster or gesso. The easiest method of working was to apply the paints to the dry surface, a technique sometimes described as fresco secco. In later periods, the tempera was applied upon the gesso while it was still wet, a technique that made greater demands upon the artist. This method is known as true fresco.
if you go to those chambers you wil notice that several things are incomplete. the 108 karnas sculptures are not finished. empty stones stare at you in 6- 7 panels.
so there was no interest to redo the paintings.( my logic is their first intent would have been to finish the sculptures)
rajendra left thanjai soon after RRc's death. he even moved to an adhoc capital( chidambaram) when he was building a new one. i am sure tanjore was virtually empty of govt and royal workers soon after rrc died. the height of the glory of rrc was described by karuvurar in his thiruvisaipa like lower kings vied with each other to come and pay tribute to rrc. and the streets of thanjai were full of gems that fell from their crowns as they jostled each other.tanjore never regained that status of the capital of a mega empire. venketesh
Hi, In my opinion it is not a poonal. It is kind of a angavastram. The reason I am saying this is because, some gurus and most sages took up sanyasam and an important part of being a sanyasi is to break the poonal (symbolic way to breaking the grihastha stage of life).
1. I too think it is a an angavastram type cloth tied across the upper body. It is too thick to be the 'thread'. 2. As per Sankarachariyar in Deivathin Kural, it was the practice to wear the poonal as a 'malai' and not on either shoulder. It was arranged on the left or right shoulder depending on the action - left shoulder for sandhyavandanam, homam etc. and right shoulder for pitru karyams.
It is the yajnopavitha as u can clearly see the brahmamudichi. This type is called vastra yajnopavitam.
It is true that the style of depicting the yajnopavita differ between pallava n cholas. Hv a image file for this, uploading the same in the file section. The pallava style just shows the stylish wearing where in the cord passes over the right elbow istead of under, but it should only be taken as a style as its impractical in normal wearing.
Interestingly the file shows the evolution of body, ear rings, crowns etc as well.
Hv a image file for this, uploading the same in the > file section. The pallava style just shows the stylish wearing where > in the cord passes over the right elbow istead of under, but it should > only be taken as a style as its impractical in normal wearing. >
file uploaded into our photo section - under heading iconogaphy /icon.jpg
Yagnopavitha - was a matter of right Centuries back.
Kshatrias & Vaisyas also wore it..
KARUMANs ( Smiths - Black / Goldsmiths - Karandhai @ Karunthattankudi - near Thanjai - inscriptions of Rajendra I) sought and got the permission from Rajendra I and wore it.
This practice is being continued till date.
Kudumi (growing long hair among male) was also adopted by all ..
If one concentrates on the common persons depicted in Big temple Chozha murals, so many socialistic details will be realised.
Chidambaram is an amazing place of Worship.
Will post related inscription details of RjC shortly.
we are talking of paintings that predate the big temple by over 600 years- during this period we can but expect more maturity and perfection into any craft. the caves of ajanta were painted in difficult conditions ( all except the floor were painted) - imagine painting into a cave roof in dim light - with natural colors.
ok, if we are to compare contemporary works of the chola -which is the main point of my contention - comparing chola bronzes with chola stone sculpture to their paintings. ( am posting the links for the pictures so that its easy for us to reference and no contentions on source etc)
BRONZE :: The mould - say in clay by single Artisan The molten metal Finishing touches ...
SCULPTURES :: On Hard Stone (Unlike soft stones of Belur / Halabeedu which get hardened over period of time due to exposure in atmosphere) Hand crafting each piece .. by various Artisan .. towards Single theme.
PAINTINGS / MURALS :: The vestible - space between two blocks of stones - One the wall above Peruvudayar at Mezanine level and other, the outer wall of Vimanam - is less then 5 feet wide at Saandharam. Dark. Not venitlated.
Each Panel of painting is almost 15 feet tall for about 12 feet wide (visual estimate) on Rough stone surface..
On the stone surface a Plaster (Not cement ) smooth surface need ought to have been prepared and the Fresco painted - using natural / herbal (Non-chemical) colours before the Wetness got dried - and the entire - let us say 15' x 12' surface - COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PAINTED by Single Artisan racing with the (natural) drying process !
Imagine the working conditions of the Artisan ::
i) a rough stoned surface is to be PREPARED with plastering (Not mortar / Cement, but something similar, receptive to natural paints - slow drying, which will not develop cracks, which will stick to original stone surface for Centuries ..
ii) the size will be approximately 15 tall and about 12 feet wide - thickness of plaster - about 6 mm ? (the orignal stone surface should have been partly dressed (removal of unevenness)..
iii) No natural light.. Source of Aritificial light (Theeppandham etc) with effect of (yellow) tinge affecting colours ..
iv) Colour selection :: should have been tried on similar sample surface after natural drying process ..
v) No of Artisans working :: Can be speculated :: A CHIEF PAINTER would have formed the outlines of the painting - paving way for atleast 2 artisans - to fill the outlines with colors .. mostly from Top to bottom
And as rightly pointed out by London based Surgeon Dr. Sridhar that these painters / artisans did not have the luxury of looking at the full scape painting and appreciating the same in the LIGHT which we are NOW used to !!
> > And as rightly pointed out by London based Surgeon Dr. Sridhar that > these painters / artisans did not have the luxury of looking at the > full scape painting and appreciating the same in the LIGHT which we > are NOW used to !! > Yes, we do need to give difficulty levels and handicaps to art....but then if you compare it to ajanta - there too there was no natural light. agree ( though dont understand in full) they used a easier technique - but then the results are far better - what was the compulsion to choose this over that - for a purist like RRC - whose prefection is seen in his stone / metal images - am afraid whatever be the handicap - he would not have accepted these paintings
if today in 2007, we find it difficult to photograph the location, it must have been more than difficult to paint these... maybe thats why we have such anatomical discrepancies....
Hi, In the three different poonal varieties of the image you have posted all go from left to right. Not from right to left. Although the pallava style is different, it is also from left to right. The brahmamudichu is on the left. Also the sketches below them showing different "odal vagaigal" also show poonal from left to right. So, It is mostly an angavastram rather than a poonal.
We had discussed this thread long time ago, but this question by raghavendra was left unanswered. in the big temple - the so called RRC, Karuvurar painting, the question was why is karuvuar shown wearing the sacred thread in the wrong direction...
I found this reference in an old book (loaned from a friend) by sir C Nachiappan
Quote:
The manner in which his facial features are drawn and the way he wears his yajnopavita in the reverse manner, indicate that he belonged to the Vamachara Panthi of saivism, like the kalamukhas and the pasupathas
Unquote:
Three diff paths!!
1) Vamachara - who follow the pancha makara sadhana ( the left handed path) involving things normally forbidden!! 2) Dakshinachara - who follow the right handed path ( conservative saivism??) 3) Samayachara ....Kaulachara?? - yogic path??
Prbly, this is bit deviating from the topic, but stilli couldn’t stop expressing myself. Vamchara or the best know as Aghori is a sect of people who do not believe in orthodox ways ofSanathana Dharma They are supposed to be living in the burial ground and do rituals there on, they believe God is everywhere and doesn’t differentiate between Left or Right, weather its a burial ground or a temple, everything is equal for them. The Guru for all the Aghori is Lord Dhathatherya, who isof Lord Vishnu, incarnated as son of Rishi Athri and Anusiya, and who learns teaching from the universe themselves. I don’t know weather Yajnopavitham would come underconventional ways or not, as its Gaythri worn by person to worship the Lord Sun regularly. If Karuvurar was a person who follows the left handed path, i doubt weather he would have had any Yajnopavitham....!!!