Hi all I need to know about shaivaite saint umapathi sivam for a piece of literature I am attempting. mainly the period he lived in. can some one guide me?
A small correction. Umapathi Sivam is 4th Saiva Acharya and his Guru ��MaRaignanasambantham�� was 3rd Acharya. Meykandaar who gave the basic saiva theory ��Sivagnanabotham�� was first Acharya and his sishya Arunandhi Sivam was 2nd Acharya. The four Acharyas were called as Santhaana Kuravar.
The name of the woodcutter who have got ��Mukthi�� as per instruction of Nataraja was ��Samban��. Shiva's Tamil instruction in 'venbaa' through Palm leaf matter is still available at Tiruvaavaduthurai Atheenam. The venba is
Meykandar period was around 1223. Within the span of around 30 years (during 13th century) all these four Santhaana Kuravars were spreading the re-found or refined theory of Saivism or ��Saiva Siththaantham�� and establishing saiva mutts. These Saiva mutts were very reason for maintaining the age old Siva temples in and around Tamilnadu for the past 700 years. Thiruvaavaduthurai was first such mutt and appreciated as ��Siva Rajadhaani�� by Thamizh Thatha Vu.Ve.Saminatha Iyer.
Umapathi Sivam��s student was Machu Chettiyar alias Arul Namasivaayar. His lineage has started first Tiruvavaduthurai and later Dharumapuram Adheenams.
Madam Geetha Sambasivam wrote a big article explaining everything about Nataraja Temple in Tamil, including 'SWARNA AAKARSHANA BAIRAVAR. I am giving some portion of same. This is E-KALAPPAI unicode Tamil software. If you have in computer, you can convert. I will ask Madam to send you full details through mail too. If you have a g-mail id, you will get Unicode Tamil very easily.
Small correction: Kulotthunga-II was not throwing out the image. But immersed into sea - we can put it. The King (except in Thillai matters, as was told), otherwise a very good secular.
Thillai Moovaayiravar were very much doing Puja also to Thiruchitrakoota Govindarajar before 11th century. This was confirmed by Kulasekhara Aazhwar and Thirumangai Mannan in their 'paasurams'. Maanickavaasagar also mentioned this.
After the common enemy Jainism was completely thrown out of Tamilnadu by united forces of Vaishnavite and Saivite, at the time of 10th and eleventh centuries,the egoist people (most of them elites) must have found new theory for fight - Vaishnavite Vs Saivite. Not surprise, it was common among our people to fight each other for no reasons. After that how many factions have come in Vaishnavites sect and Saivites sect?
But the original dravidar kazhagam - DK had in fact got some policies made mandatory - very clearly for its party, and Periyaar was very adamant in following those policy. But what about their siblings?
Kulottungan-II father Vikrama Chola have built so many temples for both Shiva and Vishnu. A son of such father can not be such fanatic to throw Vishnu just like that. But in those days condition, under some pressure, a Chakravarthi or Perarasar could have supported some extreme groups..or wanted to destroy the extremist too, and that is common in politics. Chakravarthi acts like a modern day dictator. Any dictator, by nature, would have lot of enemies as well as very thick friends.
But important thing also there that K-II had taken a stern decision, (whether it was good or bad) and not postponed or dragged the subject for future generations to solve.
Definetely you have to note the reason in the action of secular Chola Kings.
Thillai subject was closed by K-II and only during senji Naicker/or Atchutha Naicker time it has re-appeared. (That story was another pathetic)
Many thanks for the detailed explanations....god,gold, glory....will oneday drive us to extinction..
a question to divakar sir,
whenever we look for spiritual conquests...shaivism over jainism etc, we are also given stories of miracles ....of stomach aches, miracle cure from illnes, verses not getting burnt, floating on water etc..
even in other parallels, like the ten commandments ....the nile turning red, hail etc. somehow these do not pass muster to scientific reasoning, and need to be taken with a pinch of salt as you would do when you see ...... spitting out a lingam.
We portray our kings with enormous wisdom, vision and tack. maybe the comman man would have been naive enough, but how come even kings swayed from their deep devotion to god and the higher plane ...by these
on the otherside, the great saints, they were such exponents of verse..who have communed with god ....were miracles the only way for them to demonstrate that their god was more powerful
On the question of miracles, I would like to add a small anecdote given by Dada J. P. Vaswani, the spiritual leader of most of the Sindhis living all over the world.
He frequently conducts question-answer sessions with school and college students and youth. At the end of one such session, he asked the participants (just before winding up) what they wanted, expecting a question. A few of the girls shouted ice-creme. He did not know what to do, but one of the Sindhis present, offered to sponsor ice creme for all the young ones present. "This is a miracle I didn't expect," said Dada Vaswani and gave (while ice creme was being arranged) several examples of how even when simple wishes,if fulfilled in an unexpected way, become miracles.
Occasions when personal problems are resolved in an unexpected manner, are treated as miracles. A recent example of A R Rahman, his mother and sister converting to Islam, could be labeled as a miracle (by him) when his family's problems were sorted out by a Fakir.
I think, if your wish (cure of sicknesses, material benefit, rewards for family members) is fulfilled, then it may be called a "miracle".
Dear Vijay, Miracles do happen time and time and whenever it is necessary. But all these things only for experiencing and for 'loka-kalyaanam' not for advertising or for selfish things.
Our Guru used to tell one thing. - there is absolutely no need to God to show His power or to show Himself. But when Hiranya asked his son to show whether Narayana lives in his own built sthambam and if Narayana not present there in that particular sthambam, will prahalaatha accept the theory of Non-goddism but only Hiranyayisim ?- and when Prahalatha said a staunch Yes to his father's challenge, God Narayana got the necessity here to show Himself because of his devotee. God can have any number of non-beleivers BUT He will never loose a staunch devotee like Prahalatha. So the Miracle happened that he has shown Himself as omni-present AND EVEN IN THE EGOIST STHAMBAM of Hiranya.
(spitting out lingam) When I asked your question some times back to one Tamil Maathaji from Mumbai, who used to bring out kumkum and sandal powder by 'maya powers' - what is the necessary, and is it true, when it is true, from where. She replied positively but did not explain how. But Mathaaji accepted that this type of tricks not at all necessary if people listen to righteous way of life. She said people do not listen to such advises so these tricks are necessary to take them towards righteous way of life.
But severe saadhana will surely provide some unexplained inner powers - again our Guru says - those who utilise these powers for selfish motive - can not sustain long and in fact it will destroy them too.
I have seen some miracles myself but I have no scientific explanation - so better to keep with myself.
Our Tamil country was home to several siththars. One of my old friend M.Arunachalam, (Once a big contractor here at Vizag) now is called as 'saamiji' used to do penance at Rathnagiri Hills near Vellore. Now and then Saamiji will come to Vizag - and he will never show any such maaya things - since he is a friend of mine I used to take privilage and ask him about these type of miracles. He says these things are to be experienced and, can not be explained. He has experienced several type of 'sidhdhu vilaiyaattu' during his penance. He used to get from unseen pinches in shoulders and 'kuttu' on the top of his head. He says he used to take these things as blessing from the unknown sidhdhars.
If you read VaLLalaar varalaaru, will give more light on miracles.
Again to come to your point on Saivite-Jain miracles, Nile river turning red, etc., etc. - in my view, we will have to take the only lesson from those types of incidents that is 'satyamEva jayatE'. Vaaymai mattumE vellum. And God will be always siding with righteous people.
thanks for all the responses. However, i think i need to properly phrase my question..once again
quote divakar sir,
She said people do not listen to such advises so these tricks are necessary to take them towards righteous way of life. "
My question is exactly this
such tricks are used to grab the attn of the pamaran....but do our kings also fall in the same criteria.
On one side we talk of kings raising lofty gopurams, building fantastic idols...renaming themselves sps ( .....), even composing verses ..... do they also fall under the same bracket...i dont think so.
I should mention diwaker's opinion on kannadasan here. the last time we met, divaker said " kannadaasan nichchayamaa oru sithar "
but diwaker I would like to add- kannadasan had a higher opinion of himself. even higher than sidhar.
'padaipathanaal en peyar iraivan"
venketesh > > But constructing temples, naming after them are all for future generation - and I can very well say that they have done right because following the footsteps, more such structures will arise - all relegious places are meant for moral practice. Whether the kings publicise himself or not, they have helped the crores of people to get solace from day to day problems. We will take POSITIVE side alone. > > composing verses on them: A leader always gets such things from their devoted servents. The king cannot ignore this. But the great kings always knows how to take these things into their strides. RRC/ RJC/KC probably - must have enjoyed that moment of praise - that's all. If you read Jeyankondar's Kalingattu Parani - they poet praised the king too much and even praised him to the level of Krishna and equalise chola country ladies as gopikaas. > > Great people always know their strength and weakness. When their sishyaas sing their strength, they accept for that momentum. When they exaggarate the same great people's weakness as their strength, they will laugh themselves. > > RRC still living through the structures and his deeds. And he will live for ever. This we should treat as a positive signal. >
well for an 8th grader....to account for publishing 109 volumes, 4000 poems, 5000 movie lyrics .....you could call his a sidhar..he lived a colorful life too... wine, women, drugs, gambling, politics, atheism and back into hinduism...
I never knew that Kavaiarasar is also discussed in Ponniyin Selvan groups.
On the same pitch you can also classify ilayaraja. A person who was not much read, never had formal education in music. But look at the level of knowledge which he has. He experimented in the ragas more than anyone else.
I don't know whether people will be interested or not, but ind attached an XL sheet which talks about some of his compositions. I know that I am talking tangentially but thought that some will be interested in this
Hi every song of kannadasan has a hitory annan ennadaa thambi ennadaa was when his brother al.srinivasan rejected a request for a 200 rupee loan venketesh
Hi I always feel very proximal to kannadasan.though I have seen hm just once from a distance of a few hundred metres. the reason was our native villages are just a few miles apart
and the "hotel kavitha" compound where he did all those savoury and unsavoury activities listed by vijay is just a road away from my home.
the erstwhile hotel kavitha is a huge shady compound on one side of the alwarpet flyover. you can see it to the right once you cross lifestyle( the old one) thats where the best of his poetry came from. i would always equate it to the kuyil thoppu in pondichery where the mahakavi wrote. venketesh
i am not a non believer...but that doesnt stop us from introspecting. ekam Sataha Vipraha bahudha vadanti.....truth is but one but we see it differently..
i am only arguing that the reason attributed to someone as lofty, well read, crafty ( vicitrasithan!!) undergoing a sea change in his core philosophy towards something as pervasive as GOD...just because he witnessed a few `miracles' doesnt just jell. at his level of intellect he would be asking as to which path leads to godliness and not which god is more powerful. he would have studied the tenets...heard both sides describe their ultimate goals...there would have been a healthy debate....and then passed a judgement. not just burn both the palm leaf and let the unburnt one decide the victor.
not that i am saying everything must pass scientific tests but we can atleast try scientific reasoning..am not disputing miracles ....i know and understand that some are explainable with the science as we know it now, some cannot.
take the case of the astras....in the mahabarta...the use of the brahmastra...the final battle between arjuna and one of the eight hindu immortals ( chiranjeevins)..ashvatama...the description goes as ....when used it shines like a bolt of lightning brighter than thousand suns shining together, a majestic cloud of light and dust, so big that it will eclipse the sun and everything will be vaporised as far as one can see, no blade of grass can grow for 12 years ( not sure of this)....and so on...if someone wanted to describe the destructive force of a weapon...he would just say it breaks everything, burns everything etc...but the specific references to pull/poondi not growing, the mushroom cloud etc ...point to technology much advanced for its times.
divaker said " kannadaasan nichchayamaa oru sithar " > > > > > > but diwaker I would like to add- kannadasan had a higher opinion > > of > > > himself. even higher than sidhar. > > > > > > 'padaipathanaal en peyar iraivan"
I completely agree with you Venkatesh. But during 1978s or so, Kannadaasan realised and analysed about his earlier all works (as per his quote). He quotes in his one of 'ArthamuLLa indhumatham'series as follows: I met that man (who is living opposite to sun theatre and meeting after a gap of so many year) and he asked me you did not do any thing so for people and start do - After reaching home I received a call from Dinamani Kathir with an offer that I should start some series. so 'ArthamuLLa Indhumatham' started. More than cine songs, in his other works of writings He has excelled in every department of philasophy. He has scolded very badly about Rajaji during 50s but his Kavithai - IrangaRpaa on Rajaji's death brings out tear to every one. His own IrangaRpaa, was somewhat, no poet ever tried, he wrote, a beutiful Tamil garland. His translations on Baja govindham, his translation on Kanagadhara sthothram - what a contrast for both? Yet Kannadaasan won the hearts of every reader.
Aviveka Sinthamani - a classic work of Kannadasan. After reading all his other than cinema works only I confessed that Kannadasan is also a sidhdhar.
www.vamsadhara.blogspot.com (April 2007) I have written a Tamil article in some Tamil groups about Kannadasan and Adhisankarar. You can browse.
a classic piece of kannadassn acting in a movie apoorva ragangkal, where he instantaneously writes a poem about nagesh- a doctor
venketesh
- what a contrast for both? Yet Kannadaasan won the hearts of every > reader. > > Aviveka Sinthamani - a classic work of Kannadasan. After reading all his other than cinema works only I confessed that Kannadasan is also a sidhdhar. > > www.vamsadhara.blogspot.com (April 2007) I have written a Tamil article in some Tamil groups about Kannadasan and Adhisankarar. You can browse. > > Dhivakar. >