nandhini Vs cleopatra
  • some commonalities

    ...both seduce
    ...married to older men (married Julius Caesar in 48 BC. He was 52,
    she was 22. parallel to periya pazhuvettaiyar>>)

    below is written about cleopatra ...

    For her actual beauty, it is said, was not in itself so remarkable
    that none could be compared with her, or that no one could see her
    without being struck by it, but the contact of her presence, if you
    lived with her, was irresistible; the attraction of her person,
    joining with the charm of her conversation, and the character that
    attended all she said or did, was something bewitching. It was a
    pleasure merely to hear the sound of her voice, with which, like an
    instrument of many strings, she could pass from one language to
    another; so that there were few of the barbarian nations that she
    answered by an interpreter.

    vj
  • both their first lovers were assasinated ( caeser / AK or veera
    pandian ...!!)

    their second lovers committed suicide ( mark antony / periya
    pazhuvettayar)

    both lost their land and tried to win back by going to the invading
    king ( caeser invaded egypt/ak invaded pandya country)

    both seem to be compared to a poisonous snake often

    ...
  • Vijay;
    You want someone (fictional or real) close in character to Nandhini, try
    Milady De Winter from Alexander Dumas' "The Three Musketeers". i have
    already bought this up in this group but anyways as this is always an
    interesting topic.
    Also whilst you are into the book (if you haven't read it already) im sure
    you will find a lot of similarities between PS and 3 Musketeers!!
  • What a comparison!!!. Great
  • -

    Yes sir

    and the closest charecter to vanthiyathevan was D'Artagnan

    and the last book in the triology deals with the real heir to the
    throne in jail


    a lot of resemblances between ponniyin selvan and 3 musketeers

    and kalki was liberala in following western classics like tale of 2
    cities in his short stories. (impersonation and sacrifice in the
    gallows)
  • hi rahul

    dumas is a must read - count of monte cristo would have been my
    first choice ( even though the later portions do drag a bit)...while
    the man in the iron mask has been remade twice in tamil ( switching
    of the prince!)... the three musk...was good for the comedy stuff,
    my first choice would be the count of monte cristo for its depth of
    story line and stong narration...a man jailed without trail,
    seperated from his lady love, ailing father - snatched away just
    when he was about to have everything that he wished for - a captains
    job, wedlock to his lady love-----kept in solitary confinement for
    years - left to ponder on what went wrong, left to relive his last
    few days of freedom in his mind - dissecting every act, every
    person ....and then to understand the conspiracy..it was truely
    amazing read.

    vj
  • Find replace_ Caesar with AK, Brutus n others with nandhini,
    ravidasan, soman etc etc , the priests with kudanthai josier.....in
    this account of Assasination of Caesar:

    Nicolaus of Damascus wrote his account of the murder of Caesar a few
    years after the event. He was not actually present when the
    assassination occurred but had the opportunity to speak with those
    who were. He was a friend of Herod the Great and gathered his
    information during a visit to Rome. His account is thought to be
    reliable.

    The Plan:

    "The conspirators never met openly, but they assembled a few at a
    time in each others' homes. There were many discussions and
    proposals, as might be expected, while they investigated how and
    where to execute their design. Some suggested that they should make
    the attempt as he was going along the Sacred Way, which was one of
    his favorite walks. Another idea was for it to be done at the
    elections during which he bad to cross a bridge to appoint the
    magistrates in the Campus Martius; they should draw lots for some to
    push him from the bridge and for others to run up and kill him. A
    third plan was to wait for a coming gladiatorial show. The advantage
    of that would be that, because of the show, no suspicion would be
    aroused if arms were seen prepared for the attempt. But the majority
    opinion favored killing him while he sat in the Senate, where he
    would be by himself since non-Senators would not be admitted, and
    where the many conspirators could hide their daggers beneath their
    togas. This plan won the day."

    Brutus Persuades Caesar to Ignore his Apprehensions:

    "...his friends were alarmed at certain rumors and tried to stop him
    going to the Senate-house, as did his doctors, for he was suffering
    from one of his occasional dizzy spells. His wife, Calpurnia,
    especially, who was frightened by some visions in her dreams, clung
    to him and said that she would not let him go out that day. But
    Brutus, one of the conspirators who was then thought of as a firm
    friend, came up and said, 'What is this, Caesar? Are you a man to
    pay attention to a woman's dreams and the idle gossip of stupid men,
    and to insult the Senate by not going out, although it has honored
    you and has been specially summoned by you? But listen to me, cast
    aside the forebodings of all these people, and come. The Senate has
    been in session waiting for you since early this morning.' This
    swayed Caesar and he left."

    Bad Omens:

    "Before he entered the chamber, the priests brought up the victims
    for him to make what was to be his last sacrifice. The omens were
    clearly unfavorable. After this unsuccessful sacrifice, the priests
    made repeated other ones, to see if anything more propitious might
    appear than what had already been revealed to them. In the end they
    said that they could not clearly see the divine intent, for there
    was some transparent, malignant spirit hidden in the victims. Caesar
    was annoyed and abandoned divination till sunset, though the priests
    continued all the more with their efforts.

    Those of the murderers present were delighted at all this, though
    Caesar's friends asked him to put off the meeting of the Senate for
    that day because of what the priests had said, and he agreed to do
    this. But some attendants came up, calling him and saying that the
    Senate was full. He glanced at his friends, but Brutus approached
    him again and said, 'Come, good sir, pay no attention to the
    babblings of these men, and do not postpone what Caesar and his
    mighty power has seen fit to arrange. Make your own courage your
    favorable omen.' He convinced Caesar with these words, took him by
    the right hand, and led him to the Senate which was quite near.
    Caesar followed in silence."

    The Attack:

    "The Senate rose in respect for his position when they saw him
    entering. Those who were to have part in the plot stood near him.
    Right next to him went Tillius Cimber, whose brother had been exiled
    by Caesar. Under pretext of a humble request on behalf of this
    brother, Cimber approached and grasped the mantle of his toga,
    seeming to want to make a more positive move with his hands upon
    Caesar. Caesar wanted to get up and use his hands, but was prevented
    by Cimber and became exceedingly annoyed.

    That was the moment for the men to set to work. All quickly
    unsheathed their daggers and rushed at him. First Servilius Casca
    struck him with the point of the blade on the left shoulder a little
    above the collar-bone. He had been aiming for that, but in the
    excitement he missed. Caesar rose to defend himself, and in the
    uproar Casca shouted out in Greek to his brother. The latter heard
    him and drove his sword into the ribs. After a moment, Cassius made
    a slash at his face, and Decimus Brutus pierced him in the side.
    While Cassius Longinus was trying to give him another blow he missed
    and struck Marcus Brutus on the hand. Minucius also hit out at
    Caesar and hit Rubrius in the thigh. They were just like men doing
    battle against him.

    Under the mass of wounds, he fell at the foot of Pompey's statue.
    Everyone wanted to seem to have had some part in the murder, and
    there was not one of them who failed to strike his body as it lay
    there, until, wounded thirty-five times, he breathed his last. "
  • I am not sure what generated Nandini but there was a character very similar to her in the movie Manohara released in 1954. Vasantha Sena was in all modes same as Nandhini.
    Those who have seen Manohara would know this person, also equally intriguing is the fact that Nandini being a fictional frame and Vasantha Sena being a fictional person too, both stories are based out of chola dynasty!
  • What was the year PS was written?? Probably in the late 40's i
    guess!!! May Vasantha
    sena was inspired by Nandini.
  • Nandhini always had a sugar coated tongue to one and all, like a snake in the grass.

    Whereas Vasantha Sena was not so - she has been characterised to seduce the King alone.
  • No Jayanthi,

    I beg to differ with you. She (Vasanthasena) always had sweet words for
    Manohara for that matter for all the other charecters- Of course all this in
    front of the king. But can she be compared to Nandhini ... well ...

    ~ Udanx
  • Precisely, Vasantha sena had 3 husbands, one was manohara's father. Her 1st one happens to kill her.
    Nandini on the other hand, tried to rope in Aaditya, took over the falling veera pandya, married the age old Pazhuvettayar ... and eventually fell for Vallavarayan.

    Both characters are closely over, both falling in the chola lineage add a mystery. Was Nandini entirely fictional?
  • Dear SPS
    I can see you sitting back and smiling....with all these discussions on Vasantha sena(TR Rajakumari) and Nandhini
  • sure shot medicine to wake up a slumbering group ...works everytime i
    guess...mention nandhini's name, even kumbakarnan will get up and type
    i guess....vj
  • Talking of historical movies - who can forget cecil demille - ten
    commandments, ben hur, samson and delilah..masterful efforts. pity
    PS did not reach them.....

    while on the same subject - the robe 1953 and its sequel demetrius
    and teh galdiators 1954 ( 20th C fox) has a few scenes which are
    amazingly similar to a particular episode in PS....the early
    christians in the movies are shown to secretly identify themselves
    to each other by drawing the sign of the fish ( on their foreheads,
    on the ground etc).....a la ravidasan to alwarkadian on the river
    front...

    Incidentally - the Greek word for fish (ichthus, spelled: Iota Chi
    Theta Upsilon Sigma). That is an acrostic for "Jesus Christ, of God,
    the Son, the Savior" [Iesous (Jesus) CHristos (Christ) THeou (of
    God) Uiou (the Son) Soter (the Savior)]. An acrostic is
    an "arrangement of words in which the first letter of each line
    ordinarily combines with others to form a word or words or the
    alphabet..
  • correction again - benhur was directed by william wyler ( Demille
    was negotiating for it when he died of heartattach)
  • Dear SPS,

    I am unable to make out the content of your comment. Our CM being a tamil
    Scholar himself, I am sure he will be in deep love with all the charecters
    of PS. But does it mean that Nandhini and Vasantha Sena can be compared ?

    ~ Udanx
  • Nandhini's sweet words remained for ever so in the mind of the people interacting with her. Not once did give a spec of doubt in the oponent.

    Whereas Vasantha Sena - the oponent easily knew all those sweet words had a different meaning.
  • Again I beg to differ ... Nandini's words neither Kundavi nor Anirudhar or
    Tirumalai or for that matter anyone from the chola family liked her /
    believed in her sweet words. if I am not mistekn not even chinna
    Pazhuvetarayar had high regards for his sister in law. It was Peria
    Pazhuvetarayar / Vallavarayan Vandhiya Thevan / Pallava kumaran who believed
    in him. Adavadhu mohathil mayangiyavargall. Whats the difference between her
    and Vasanthasena ... Who seduced kesarivarman / Manohara's father /
    Uggirasenan? Love is blind so people ...

    ~ Udanx

    PS: Ganabadigall ... Correct me if I am wrong in my opinion.
  • Vasantha sena was a classic, T.R.Rajakumari's voice modulation and her presentation was the closest you can get to imagining Nandini.

    As for Dr.KK's closeness to the epic, you can check out the horse rider near anna flyover, the looks fall in place to our hero of PS( the General of Chola army....
    He was installed during the then regime.
  • beg to differ on a few:

    you are right about kundavai ( who hated her from first sight -
    maybe she felt jealous of her beauty over hers!!! we can have a
    discussion on that as well, but i think in terms of sheer physcial
    beauty ( animal attraction) nandhini wins hands down.

    anirudhar, chinna pazhuvetayar.. yes but Tirumalai always had a
    soft corner for his adopted sister - infact he was cross with periya
    pazhuvetayar for having married her - for he wanted to devot her
    into service of god...

    as regards the people who fell for her - periya pazhuvetayar/
    kandamaaran and parthibendra pallavan .... but you cant say that
    about VT - VT flirted with almost all the women characters in PS -
    starting with manimegalai, nandhini, kundavai and even poonguzhali,
    but fell only for kundavai.

    but i think there is one diff between vasanta sena and nandhini - in
    terms of their objective - vasanta sena's was sheer power whereas
    kalki gives a patriotic color to nandhini's quest at the same time -
    he never degrades her character/morality - that is the genius of
    kalki - his master stroke - the villain characters are not the dumb
    stupid ones portrayed in todays movies - but steady, strond willed,
    deep charactered gems - be it naaganandhi in SS and
    nandhini/ravidasan in PS>
  • Nandhini's character is depicted as good turned bad. Not want of just power, but with a purpose.

    Vasanthasena is not depicted so.
  • http://chennai.metblogs.com/archives/2006/04/horse_the_rider.phtml

    great photograph and comment::


    This statue was installed some time in 70's in remembrance of
    abolition of Horse Racing in Chennai. There were reports that statue
    of the man is made with the features of Vandhiya Thevan of Kalki's
    Ponniyin Selvan. Two identical statues are installed on both sides
    of Anna Flyover
  • nandhini may not b liked by many people but underneath in her heart she placed vandhiyathevan and aadithan in a special place . she even helped vandhiyathevan at critical situations. but vasantha sena was purely selfish and planned for others downfall. nandhini was put to critical heart breaking incidents. she was refused of her basic rights. but vasanthasena was not hurt by any such incidents . so it is best to say that nandhini is far better than vasanthasena.
  • To all those who support nandini and are aganist vasanthasena,

    I read all the mails and noted the contents. But you should also appriciate
    the point that Manohara is a Movie 180 minutes where as ponniyin Selvan is a
    novel spanning 5 Volumes

    I am sure many of you in this group might have read The Da Vinci Code and
    some might have seen the movie as well, apart from reading the book. Well, I
    belong to the second category. When we saw the movie at home. Every 10th or
    15th minute I had to pause the movie give them the background of the scene
    so that my family members could also appriciate, what was written in that
    book and how the same has been condensed into a movie.

    The point I am trying to drive here is Had Ponniyin Selvan been made into a
    film, we might not know how the Nandhini charecter would have shaped out
    finally. On the contrary only our CM will know how Vasantha Sena's charecter
    would have shaped had Manohara been written as a Novel.

    Well, Athai-kku Meesai mulacha Chitappa! (Athaikku Meesai Molachathaane
    Chitappa, neither was PS taken into a movie nor manohara into a novel.) I
    will salute the democracy and will accept the verdict of the majority.

    luv,

    Udanx.
  • hi

    thought nadhini /abuthivigal werent immdly successful in
    overthrowing the cholas, they did keep the flame burning (they took
    back most of the conquered lands back, and ultimately they had the
    last laugh - they did outlive the cholas by 5 C, cholas fading in
    the 13th C whereas you still hear about the pandya til the 17th C)

    draw comparison to our CM, battling his friend turned Foe - being
    out of power for so long and yet maintained his party - and then
    returned to power!!
  • hi
    a pandya till 17c
    no way

    the pandyas moved out of madurai in 1320 and propably survived in the
    sankaran koil area till 1450s till they were slowly pushed aside by
    the poligars( feudatories of the vijaynagar and later naik kings)
    some of them took the name pandya as a title like kattabommu and
    famly,

    venkatesh
  • Almost every other person at that time down near thirunalveli belt had the surname pandiyan. I am not sure if Kattabomman was from the same pandya lineage. Correct me if i am wrong.
  • accept yours. but the pandyas did outlive the cholas..

    while on the subject

    Pandalam in Kerala is the chosen and blessed place where Lord
    Ayyappa, the presiding deity of Sabarimala had had His human sojourn
    as the son of the Raja of Pandalam. The Pandalam kingdom was
    established around 79 ME (903 AD) by the Pandalam royal family who
    are the descendents of the Pandya kings of Madurai. The Pandya royal
    family had to flee Madurai because of threats to their lives posed
    by their own ministers. A branch of the fleeing family moved
    westward, briefly staying at various places it acquired by purchase.
    The family kept on the move for over a century, finally reaching
    Pandalam in 79 ME. This was chosen to be the permanent home for the
    royal family. The then ruler of Venad (later Travancore) helped to
    establish the kingdom at Pandalam. According to the Travancore State
    Manual, the Rajas of Pandalam " were always friendly to the Kings of
    Travancore

    http://www.ayyappa.com/RoyalFamilyOfPandalam.htm

    ofcourse with due respects to Sabarimala, below expose from ndtv

    http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/videos.aspx?id=10648

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