Archeological proof for Tamil Kingdom in Indonesia
  • not sure if this was discussed earlier - the writings are supposed
    to be in pallava script with some more not yet deciphered.

    http://www.tamil.net/list/2000-04/frm00160.html

    Dear friends
    There are ruins of numerous Hindu temples I find scattered in this
    archipelic country, especially in the island of Jawa and I am told
    that the most ancient of them are the ones built by the Pallavas
    during 6th / 7th Century. I suppose that of St.Arasu / Mahendra
    Pallava period. Here is a piece authenticating what I hear often,
    published in the Jakarta Post recently.

    Western Java's history written on stones

    By Ida Indawati Khouw

    Many may be unaware that flood problems in the capital Jakarta,date
    back to ancient times. The evidence is on ancient boulders, which
    also show that Jakarta was part of the ancient Tarumanagara kingdom.

    JAKARTA (JP): The capital, along with neighboring Bogor and the
    Banten area, once formed part of Tarumanagara (1), the oldest
    Kingdom in Java.

    Jakarta was the site of the most important ancient monument, the
    Tugu, one of seven stone monuments dating back to the Kingdom.

    Tarumanagara existed between the fifth century and the seventh
    century. The area where the substantial monument was found was
    a village of Batu Tumbuh in present-day Tugu subdistrict in North
    Jakarta.

    Besides praising the revered Tarumanagara King Purnawarman, the opal-
    shaped Tugu boulder told of the digging of a water channel, called
    Gomati, near the place where the monument was found.

    The stone also described another water channel, Candrabhaga (2),
    also built during the era of the kingdom. It is believed the two
    channels were near the present Cakung River in the Tugu area.

    The story, which was written in the South Indian Pallava script of
    the Sanskrit language (3), said the digging of the 11-kilometer
    Gomati "river" which passed through the Brahman priests' lodgings
    was completed within 21 days and the priests were rewarded with
    1,000 cattle.

    The boulder does not tell the purpose of the project, but experts
    surmise it was to cope with flooding or an irrigation system for
    crops.

    Experts say the historical evidence makes it unsurprising that
    modern-day Jakarta is drenched by devastating floods during the
    annual rainy season.

    The evidence is slim, but archeologist Hasan Djafar from the
    University of Indonesia said the two ideas about the use of the
    channels seemed the most reasonable.

    "The surface of Jakarta's land is one meter to two meters lower than
    the sea level, compared to centuries ago when some areas were equal
    to the level. So, it's reasonable to assume that flooding also
    occurred in the fifth century like this year."

    He speculated that residents were also involved in farming during
    the kingdom era.

    "Hulls of rice used as a mixture for bricks of ancient temples were
    found at the archeological sites of Cibuaya and Batujaya villages in
    Bogor (West Java)," he said.

    "It indicates that hulls of rice were abundant, meaning that paddy
    fields existed at that time."

    Historian Adolf Heuken questioned whether the original construction
    was a river.

    "It's so surprising that an 11-kilometer river could be built within
    only 21 days, or it is just a ditch?" he said in his book Sumber-
    sumber Asli Sejarah Jakarta (The Original Sources of Jakarta
    History).

    But the king's prize of 1,000 cattle indicated that the project was
    a great achievement, he said.

    Heuken said the project showed that people at the time had the
    capability of digging long water channels, and were also able to
    breed livestock.

    Besides the Pallava scripts, a picture of a priest's trident rod was
    also carved in the monument, functioning to separate the beginning
    and the end of lines, Heuken said.

    "It could be that the rod has symbolic or magical meaning," he said.

    The stone was found in 1879 at Batu Tumbuh, which literally
    means "emerging stone".

    "It is said that the stone appeared suddenly after a monthlong
    period of rain. I think the monument appeared after the soil was
    eroded by rain," said a resident of the Tugu area, Samuel Quico.

    Hasan said Tugu subdistrict, and thus the present Jakarta area, was
    only part of the Kingdom, which spanned over much of present day
    Jakarta -- ranging from Banten in the west, Karawang in the east and
    Sukabumi in the south.

    Experts are still searching for the kingdom's capital as no
    archeological proof has been uncovered. Many believe it was at the
    Tugu area but others consider the likely site in Bekasi (4), about
    40 kilometers east of Jakarta.

    It is also notable that the seven monuments dating back to the third
    century only mention one king, Purnawarman (5).

    Four other monuments at Bogor's Ciaruteun, Kebon Kopi and Jambu, and
    Cidanghiang in the Pandeglang area about 120 kilometers southwest of
    Jakarta, also praise Purnawarman as a great and powerful king.

    Images on two other stones, the Muara Cianten and Pasir Awi
    monuments of Bogor, remain indecipherable up to the present.

    The eight-ton Ciaruteun stone was named after the river where it was
    found in 1863. It is now well protected by the Bogor administration,
    which built a structure to protect the stone from the elements.

    It is not easy to reach remote Kampung Muara village -- visitors
    must use a muddy, unpaved road, and pass along a wooden bridge with
    some of its slats missing.

    The four lines written in Pallava tell of two footprints carved in
    it, and note their similarity to those of the Hindu god
    Vishnu, "These are the footprints of His Majesty Purnawarman, the
    brave king," the inscription reads.

    Unfortunately, inscriptions bearing no relation to history -- such
    as "Ina, I love you" -- have been written on the stone.

    Located nearby is the Kebon Kopi stone with the engraving of a
    couple of big footprints of Purnawarman, akin to those of the strong
    Airwata elephant.

    Footprints and more praise of Purnawarman are also at the Jambu
    monument. The Cidanghiang stone bears only two lines of inscription
    about Purnawarman, who is proclaimed the standard for rulers around
    the world.

    Hasan said the footprints found at almost of the monuments have been
    interpreted by some as a seal, while others believed they were a
    fertility symbol.

    He said Purnawarman's identification with Vishnu showed that the
    king was Hindu.

    "Based on report
  • I am reading a fantastic book by John Keay called
    'India - A History'. Not just a history but an actual
    analysis of the artifacts and the inscriptions through
    which the history is derived, peppered with very
    interesting anecdotes of the various archeologists and
    linguists who have helped unravel the history of
    India. Currently I am reading the history of India
    around 300AD and I find it interesting to note that he
    has written extensively on the cultural influence of
    India in the south east Asian countries. He uses the
    evidences of the travellers and the actual settlements
    in Malay peninsula and the Mekong valley area. He uses
    references from Chinese resources which mention the
    Indian settlements in these areas during the first
    centuries after Christ. Infact the Funan dynasty in
    the Khmer region (includes Vietnam and Cambodia) is
    said to have been founded by a Indian Brahmin named
    Kaudiniya and his Khmer queen Naga Soma in the first
    century AD. There have been reports of the
    missionaries sent by Asoka who were the first bearers
    of Indian civilization in these areas. Keay also
    mentions of an island named Mathura in Indonesia which
    clearly is inspired by the Indian city names of
    Mathura/Madurai. There were merchant communities that
    operated in these areas from the Greaco-Roman times
    and there is proof in the form of the Roman coins
    found and the inscriptions found in these areas (in
    Pallava scripts, which are nothing but Tamil-Brahmi).
    What Keay argues is that Indians never ruled these
    areas but were mainly traders and there may have been
    raids by Indian kings in these areas to protect the
    trade interests(from Pallavas to Cholas). But these
    areas were Indianized to a higher level due to
    influence of the Hindu epics and the presence of the
    trading community which usually settled down and never
    thought of going back home.
    Thus I think it is very doubtful that the Pallavas
    built anything on Java/Sumatra and the article cited
    has very thin evidence as to that fact. Infact I see
    an article on a local Hindu king using the pallava
    scripts and I am not sure how that authenticates that
    the Pallavas built anything on these islands. If there
    is a inscription in Pallava script naming Mahendra
    varman, that is iron-clad evidence of this fact not
    just the usage of Pallava script(which was used from
    the second century AD much before pallavas).

    Muthu Prakash R
    http://sibipranav.blogspot.com


    http://www.jeysriprakash.com
    http://sibipranav.blogspot.com

    "'I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir,' said Alice, 'because I'm not myself you see.'"
    -Alice in Alice In Wonderland
  • Is there any evidence of usage of pallava script
    during 2nd cent. AD ? Please highlight.
  • hi,

    this is an intersting site and check the link for the timelines on
    the ancient scripts

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/ws_timeline.html

    there is also mention on javanese

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/javanese.html

    Javanese is one of the earliest languages in Indonesia to possess a
    literary tradition. As a result of contact with Indian merchants,
    speakers of Javanese adapted the Pallava script, a variant of the
    Brahmi script, during the 4th centruy CE to write their own
    language. By the 8th century CE, this Indian prototype has evolved
    into a distinctive script known as the Kawi script. The transition
    from Kawi into Javanese during the 13th century BCE was more
    stylistic than structural. Only the visual composition of the script
    changed. The way the script worked remained unchanged.


    i have also uploading two files ( sourced from various sources on
    the net ofcourse) which trace the evolution of most SEA scripts from
    pallava prototype which again evolved from brahmi

    would leave the rest to the learned scholars to comment upon.
  • Think I stirred the hornet's nest here.
    1. There is a mention of a Tamil-brahmi inscription in
    mamandur which is deciphered by Iravatham Mahadeven
    and dated as the later part of the 2nd century AD. As
    per the timelines, Pallavas does not appear on the
    horizon till the middle of the third century AD and
    they start using the Tamil-Brahmi right away. Meaning,
    the script is already available for usage. But it
    would be interesting to see the kind of changes they
    introduced. But as per my readings, tamil-brahmi is
    what is referred as pallava scripts by the south
    eastern historians. I am open to change my view if
    there is evidence to the contrary.

    2.My contention is that the merchantile contact with
    the south east asia is what is responsible for the
    introduction of the script in these areas and Pallavas
    has nothing to do with it.

    3. The only known military raid(atleast to me) is by
    Rajendra I and by one of his successors which resulted
    in more contacts with SE Asia and more intermingling
    between the Indian settlers and the natives. This
    resulted in the formation of communities with mixed
    Hindu/Buddhist heritage and influenced heavily by
    Indic culture.

    4. There were Hindu kings who ruled in SE Asia and
    this is the reason for the fantastic temples still
    found as ruins. And the reason for a lot of hindu epic
    reliefs in buddhist temples like borobadur, Angor
    Wat(which was converted to a buddhist temple) etc.

    Back to John Keay, he calls the 'wars' of Rajaraja and
    Rajendra as raids for plunder and cites an inscription
    by the Chalukyas lamenting the loss of wealth due to
    the plunder of Chola forces. Also cites from the
    sources in Sri Lanka about Rajaraja's plunder of
    Anurathapura and equates it with raids by, hold your
    breath, Mohamed of Ghazni. I know, I know I am going
    to take a lot of flak for this, but barring the
    comparison, I tend to think that war is ugly and there
    is always the possibility that plunder was a necessity
    to bring other people to submission.

    Muthu Prakash R


    http://www.jeysriprakash.com
    http://sibipranav.blogspot.com

    "'I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir,' said Alice, 'because I'm not myself you see.'"
    -Alice in Alice In Wonderland
  • Also cites from the
    > sources in Sri Lanka about Rajaraja's plunder of
    > Anurathapura and equates it with raids by, hold your
    > breath, Mohamed of Ghazni. I know, I know I am going
    > to take a lot of flak for this, but barring the
    > comparison, I tend to think that war is ugly and there
    > is always the possibility that plunder was a necessity
    > to bring other people to submission.

    hi
    to the individual who is being looted or killed or having his city
    torched the perpetarator is a demon.
    just that rrc must have killed in hundreds and ghazni killed in
    thousands.
    war should be seen in the context of megalomania and economic reasons.
    allaudin khilji and malik kafur raided the south to fund a defence
    against the mongol hordes.
    the mongols used to raze and burn one city and kill all citizens to
    set an example for other cities to surrender.

    though there are not many studies on it i feel the human need to go
    to war also should also be seen in context of sickness of the
    leader. julius ceasar was propably epileptic, hitler had
    parkinson's,there was familial history of mental illness in
    alexanders family( his half brother who succeeded him went mad)

    venketesh






    > Muthu Prakash R
    >
    >
    > http://www.jeysriprakash.com
    > http://sibipranav.blogspot.com
    >
    > "'I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir,' said Alice, 'because
    I'm not myself you see.'"
    > -Alice in Alice In Wonderland
    >
  • Unfortunately the history I have read during my school days has not even made passing
    mention of Rajendra. It has been mainly gupta and maurya periods, the moghuls,
    shivaji and the most detailed of all south kingdoms covered was the Krishnadevaraya
    times. So I did not know that Rajendra was a contemporary of Mohd of Ghazni. Perhaps
    Indian history could have been different had he turned his attention on Ghazni and
    engaged him in warfares. I know it's like saying the world history would have been
    different had not Napolean attacked Russia or Hitler failed to learn from history and made
    the same mistake, attacking Russia, and was beaten by its extreme weather.
  • Am reproducing the concluding part of an article on Rajendra Chola by Prasannan in Sikhtimes.com. it's anold piece but have just chanced on it. Accounts of Rajendra's exploits make one wonder:
    would India's history have been different if the father and son were
    ruling a kingdom farther north? All this was happening in the eastern
    half of the country when Mahmud's horses were trotting across the
    western half."
  • http://www.esamskriti.com/html/new_inside.asp?
    cat_name=history&cid=964&sid=159


    There are at least more than 15 spots all over Indonesia where
    Ganesh statues were found. Below are the sites.


    1. Bara Temple, Tuliskaiyo village, Blitar Regency, East Java. Built
    in 1239. An immense statue of three meters height Ganesha.


    2. Ratu Boko, few kilometers from Prambanan Temple. There is an
    unfinished statue of Ganesha. Built in 9th Century.




    3. Lorojongrang or Prambanan Temple. This magnificent Shivaite
    temple derives it name from the village where it is located. Locally
    known as the Loro Jongrang Temple, or the Temple of the "Slender
    Virgin", it is the biggest and most beautiful Hindu temple in
    Indonesia. Built in 9th Century.



    4. Penataran Temple.

    The dated temple. Is engraved on the lintel of the door western
    side. In the cellar there is a statue of Ganesha. Earliest
    inscription reveals year 1197 (12th Century).


    5. Balaputradewa Museum, Palembang, West Sumatera. One of its
    collections is statue of Ganesha dated back from Sriwijaya Kingdom
    (7th - 13th Century)

    6. Sambisari Temple - Jogyakarta.

    A statue of Ganesha is on the East side of the temple. Built in 9th
    Century.



    7. Pura Luhur Uluwatu, Bali.

    Statues of Ganesha herald at the gate. Built in 15th Century.



    8. Complex of tombs of the last Hindu Madura and early Islamic
    Kings. 16th Century. Statue and relief of Ganesha are inside the
    complex.


    9. Torongrejo village, Wukir Mt., Malang - East Java.

    Archeological excavation revealed Ganesha statue dated back from
    Singosari Kingdom (13th Century)

    10. Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java

    Ujung Kulon National Park is the first national park, founded in
    Indonesia. The park (80,000 ha) lies on a peninsula in southwest
    Java and includes the islands Pulau Peucang, Pulau Panaitan and the
    Krakatau archipelago. On 1 February 1992, the Proposed Ujung Kulon
    National Park complex and the Krakatau Islands Nature Reserve were
    declared a World Heritage Site. An early Hindu archaeological relic
    of a Ganesha statue from the first century AD founded in pulau
    Panaitan on the summit of Mt. Raksa.


    11. Pura Blanjong, Sanur - Bali.

    A Brahmin dominated complex. There inside located Ganesh statue and
    Bali's oldest inscription dated 914 AD.


    12. Gebang Temple, Jogyakarta. A blend of Buddha-Hindu temple. A
    Ganesh enchased on its architecture.




    13. Gedongsongo Temple, Candi Village, Ungaran Mt., Semarang -
    Central Java. Nine small temples with Ganesh relief. 8th Century.


    14. Sangiran Museum, Sragen, Central Java.

    It is a home to magnificent collection of thousand of years of
    fossils and early historical Indonesia. One of its collections is
    Ganesh statue.



    15. Goa Gajah, Gianyar, Bali. 11th Century.


    16. Museum Nasional, Jakarta.

    One of its huge collections is Ganesh statue found in Banon Temple,
    Magelang, Central Java. 8th Century



    In educational institution like Institut Teknologi Bandung (ITB) or
    Bandung Institute of Technology), the symbol or logo of Ganesh is
    like an ITB trademark. The picture and ornaments like the broken
    ivory means Ganesh is willing to sacrifice while the rest represent
    wisdom and firmness. The using of the logo is widely applied in any
    of ITB activities that makes the logo is identical to ITB's
    students. The institute's address itself is Ganesha Road No. 10,
    Bandung, West java.

    One of the Indonesian currency notes carries the picture of Ganesh.
    The currency symbol ("Rp" India = "Rs") and its pronunciation
    ("Rupiah" - "Rupe") are actually almost similar to India's.
  • Vanakkam
    vj
    at indonasia in madan where my atthai ( en thanthyin thamakkai)got
    married 40 years ago with tamil setteld my uncle Dharmaseelan.
    their street name is angalaamman st with amman temple . in that
    temple they are having ganesh too.
  • Dear Muthu prakash
    there are historians who think the pallavas acame from andra
    (descendants of sathavahanas )and came from the sea from the east

    coming to tamil going to the east it was definitely the traders
    likewise its was the south indian traders who took islam to malaysia

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