Thanks sps for creating this new thread. But I would rather stay in that thread because I would like to discuss mainly the formation of kerala and malayalam. If we make this thread inclusive, as you have mentioned in the subject 'Other Dravidian Languages', we may not get much information. Also I would like to study the pattern of language formation.
So I request you to come to the original thread.
Once again thanks for your detailed explanation. I always like the way explain anything. Very good. Keep it up.
First question, boundries of tamil nadu. Whatever boundries we see now is the current boundry. 'Then kumari vada vengadam' came from fairly recent literature (I guess!!!). I strongly believe tamil speaking people lived in a separate continent south of present Kanya Kumari. We have references like 'Kadal kol'. Even that is, I feel recent. I said recent because of the long existance of tamil. 'Kadal Kol' may be a well known word when it was written. That means previous occurrance of that may have been there.
Second question, I used the word 'abandon' becuase I felt thats the reason why Malayalam were formed (as a result of language revolution). There is not other greater insult than abandoned by their own 'kith and kin'. As you have mentioned, they may be a clan, that doesn't leads to a language revolution unless otherwise triggered. Even in present day tamil nadu, there are many dialects. You can also call them as 'clan'.
We need to understand a language does not simply happen just overnight, like you say being 8th Century... if there is a literature at that date, then it would certainly be that the language had reached a fairly advanced stage in its development.. and if this language at an advanced stage, it would have taken more than a millenium to reach that status through lots and lots of refinement.. remember the first sangam did not happen overnight..
We should also remember just because it was ruled by Tamil speaking kings, it does not mean that the language was never present or was never spoken or was culturally integrated.. Also Cheras ruled from Karur(known as Vanchi) so their dominion existed inside the present day tamilnadu..
Kerala culture maybe derived, but its by and large very much unique.. For argument sake lets see if we are finding similar castes for Nair, Menon, etc. in Tamilnadu, if so will they inter-marry.. if the answer is no, then we were not culturally integrated.. Also another point of argument is that Tamil kings ruled over Kerala land, then they would simply enforce tamil as a administrative language and not worry about malayalam..
Can you tell me the name of the work which u have mentioned?
Dear Jagadesh The state Kerala was created on linguistic boundaries.. The earlier Chera Chola Pandiyas were well gone by then...
The west coast was under the influence of urdu...sanskrit...singalam and these adaptations may have resulted in a new language and a preserved identify of the chera nadu as a seperate state..
I dont think you can say they were abandoned..because till 1300 we have evidence of wars and treaties
Moreover the chera kings have always had a good rapport with the pandyas secondly the palakd etc were part of Kongudesam
if you close you eyes and carefully listed to malayalam youll get most of the meaning which one struggles when you listen to some one speak Basha Madrasi...Ada namma Chennai tamil than....
As far as southern extend and northern extend it is recent...RRC and RJC always had krishna and godavari as their northern border and more sometimes by means of regents and defeated monarchs
the sangam legends do talk of then madurai and kabadapuram but is there eidence that such a lnad mass existed by iceaonographic studies...I dont know
> > Moreover the chera kings have always had a good rapport with the pandyas
very true.
when vikrama pandiyan the younger brother of kulasekharan rebelled it was with chera help that the rebellion was quelled.
and to keep vikrama quiet in exile his daughter was married off to the chera king.
vikrama had been an able general who kept the sinhalas under check. after kulasekara his two sons fought and malik kafur came in. after the looting it was vikrama who came back to head the pandyas and defeated malik.( perhaps the only time malik was defeated in the field) after this the chera king called kulasekhara( vikrama's grandson) laid claim to the entire pandya land and crowned himself on the banks of river vegavathi.