Dear All, Great to see some additional mails pouring into the mail boxes and great to learn from learned members airing many thought provoking tit bits....
But I would be really happy to hear on the reasons for the rise of Cholas,How did they rise so powerful? What was the contributions to Tamil, Arts,Music from Cholas apart from,here http://www.hinduismtoday.com/1984/07/1984-07-01.html
The learned members could if willing add in the file sections such contributions if they have done any "research" in these areas...
Its nice to learn and share in this group.Here are some inputs as I learnt that History was(is) used(misused) many times by many irrespective of time-space in this world. So I would refrain from history lessons,rather I would try to learn from it and think how Tamils have survived,and is surviving and will survive.As already mentioned,the power of Tamil and Tamils is astounding,when there is a need the world will see its power.Mahakavis and Kannakis are not just in history,they are among Tamils living today among us,we are too busy with our "works" that we fail to see them among us.They'll shine when the rest of us,goes to the DARKNESS in our knowledge.Untill then may be we have to wait.
Certain Tamils may not know their own people's capacity,but when time comes it will show the world,what the Tamils are capable of. If anyone underestimates Tamil or Tamils capacity,I wonder if they had understood the Tamils history? Afterall Didn't Mahakavi said on "Uchimeedhu Vaanidinthu Veezhukintra Pothilum Aachim Illai Acham Illai Achemenbathillaye". http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~vasur/accamillai.html
I refer to The QMC incidents and how girls are making their voices heard across the world.May be people thought, woman with "silambu" if removed, the women in the college will not have the power or strength.They forgot, Tamils will change the history when needed whether they are women or men.I pity on myself and the rest.Afterall we know the role of "Thilakavathiyar" in Appar's contribution or I think there is a similar sister character in PS as well.Tamil women are VEERATHHTAIssssss.
And some more, Tamil has withstood all kinds of assault through the centuries and yet managed to survive. "It lives because of its inherent strength to survive even though we try our best to kill it," he chuckles. More in the below link,
Anyway,we cann't do anything other than asking few questions in the learning process.
> The nemesis to the Cholza Empire came in the person > of > Maaravarman Sundara Pandiya I(1216 - 1240) He > devastated Cholza nadu > and Cholza nadu became very weak. > 40 years later, another Sundara Pandiya appeared on > the scene. > He was Jatavarman Sundara Pandiya. He conquered the > Cholza > territories and created the New Pandiya Empire.
Please refer to http://forumhub.com/tnhistory/5225.13.25.16.html The dates do not match the names or are there different kings thats being refeered or any typing mistakes or ???????? adding 1240 to 40 years 1280,but in the link its mentioned 1251???Would be great to clear it if possible where this brain goes wrong.
Marco Polo, a few years later. has > mentioned that > the king was wearing ornaments worth a city's
This puts up the question,which is mentioned in the article as "conterversialsssss"....Wonder history or fiction??????
> Please read carefully.
Yes, we all need to read,think carefully when discussing history as mentioned above.Thank you for pointting it out,once again.
> This is a historical fact. Therefore it had really > taken place.
point of view?On whom?Do we have Cholas writing on Chola's facts??? Since my understanding of Cholas is very very little I would much appreciate any pdf research papers or published papers or conference papers from the learned members here.....
I wish and pray Tamil Thai should soon bless all Tamils for Tamil knowledge. Each One;Teach one.....Tamil...How about this?
===== :-) Nothing will benefit human health or increase the chances for survival of life on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet-A.Einstein.
Dear All, Arul I couldn't read the link as I cann't install and read Tamil fonts.....I wonder what it was about,except looking at some "Tanglish" girls,"thinking" they are "English".
B4 going further,a kind request to all "Tamil" members, This discussion could be more interesting if more of the 230 or so members airs their opinion.
Giving ample proof for Mahatma's and Presidents views on the "foreign craze". I wouldn't blame them,after all they are very young,compared to some "elderly Tanglish",especially. The Amazing part of all these is, even after going to foreign lands,many don't accept,acknowledge the beauties,of Tamil's culture. Instead some might be "proud" to call the "APPPU" an Indian character in one of most famous cartoons "THEE Simmmmmmmmmmpsonsssssss".People might be saying they have given "equal" rights and so they get an Indian character,equal opportunity. But how many would like to see, a representative of majority of an ethnic region being shown in "that" character??? So is one more NRI's initiative in "laughing at what they think as foolish",through the "English"....How many knows how many "English" in their tea,coffee breaks makes a mock out of it.Who cares its money????But they'll realise it in their last moments,what an act did I do?????Did I bring glory to the country?Or Did I bring my children in the right way???Ooooooooohhhhhhhh What have I done???? Spineless people,as they watch and never speak about it "back home". All the years of "history",as they had learnt is bouund to produce these "ROOTLESS RABBLE ROUSERS".
But believe me, as the old Tamil Prof, mentioned, even if any Tamil or non tamil or "Tanglish" people ever attempt to do any "wise" attempts,it is ONLY TAMIL THAT WILL TEACH THEM LESSON,on Tamil's Power.
"Kaatu Vilangum Keatte Mayangum ..... Arputha Geetham". "Patta Marangal Thazheerkkum Geetham" Tamil Geetham has this power.Few non Tamils had realised this to make films,but few Tamils are searching their roots or have lost their roots atleast for the present time.
Entha oru Mayakkamum, "Thezhinthu thaan Aagavendum".
I hear,some people tell "time has changed",Yes, for sure,"Manithan Marivittan .....Marithil Erivittann"
But,"Marupadiyum Irangi Varuvaan,Vandthu thaan Aaga Vendum, vera vazhi".:)
Nevermind,Tamil will take care of itself. As I said,people will come to the roots. Maya is very powerful,and different for different people,they may all sleep in "their own" Mayas,but Tamil will show them the "real" power,its untraceble growth. http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume~2/jnana-yoga/maya~and~freedom.htm More of Maya and how relevant its content to today's discussions...So believe me its a long long long...way..but the Roots will always show what it is to be "firmly roooted means" to those who are "flying up because of a sudden gale".
One proof is the members here and your concern for those "Tanglish" girls. But keep remembering our super grown intelligent might not be able to help us in identifying, Mahakavis and Kannakis among us,but these greats are among us.They will shine when the "temporary" rootless rabble rousers are flown away or when time comes for "removing masks". Afterall we cann't blame anyone,as we all know the process takes time.For centuriess people have been "prepared" for these,what can a mere 50 years do for the "original" thinkers to effectively do something.But its happening,a tremendous growth has been achieved,again this group stands as an example for Tamils culture love,even if there are few rootless rabble rouserss...
Arul I am really not surprised about that article...the yuppy culture and thanglish seems to be the norm in the younger generation...yes we have people like viswaksenan and kalaikovan but they are just a minority even our group is just so small compared to the whole population....it does hurt when you read that doent it...atleast the consolation is there are still youngsters who care and know about tamil... One a personal note I did wink for 2 sec on the imperumthinai and it took me a minutes thought to get it right...... Hope things improve Sridhar
The article was not very surprising for me too. But the younger generation is not to be blamed entirely. Look at the syllabus they have got to read! I remember when I was in school, most of my friends took hindi as their second language and sanskrit as their third language. Tamizhukku idame illai. But decision was not entirely made by them.. Their parents were the main instruments behind this. Personally speaking, it was due to my own interest that I started reading good Tamil books apart from my school books(of course, I was looked down upon for that. My friends thought that I was an old fashioned girl). More than anything, I would say that people are trying to get more westernised and flaunt their hindi knowledge. Its just a way of making fashion statement! In fact, I stayed with three girls who are said to be Tamilians(born and brought up in Madras). But none of them knew how to read or write tamil. If they were told that they did not know their mother tongue, they would scorn back saying that they knew their "rashtrabaasha" and that was enough. I dont know where the link got broken.... What went wrong in between?.... Of course there is a good number of people who do appreciate the beauty of Tamil in our generation too. But why does a great number of people not even know how to read or write their own mother tongue? Why have people stopped appreciating their own culture? Take a look at how Tamil is being killed in Movies. Leave alone the "karuthulla" gana songs which dont belong to any language or have a nomenclature. Even very good songs with good lyrics are sung badly not only by non-tamil singers but also by our own tamil singers. There are numerous instances to quote this painful torture Tamil is going through(e.g. the "periya RA" and "Chinna RA" differences while we speak, "la" "lla" "zha"-extermination). On the other hand one feels immensely happy when one comes across people who love tamil ("Katraarai Katraare Kaamuruvar"). My knowledge of Tamil is not something I can be proud about. But I love tamil and dont miss a chance to read any Tamil literature(its an ecstatic feeling). That is a way I feel I can least contribute to Tamil for its an ever living language and does not get extinct with mere passage of time. "Vaazhiya Senthamizh! Vaazhga Nattramizhar!!!"
Prathiba Natesan (979) 260 3992/ (979)8623802/ (979) 4580126 "Two roads diverged in a wood and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
and that has made all the difference"- Robert Frost
Dear All, Prathiba thanks for that wonderful insights and inputs into Tamil and to the members...The development of a culture or language is due to many many many factors, parents,education are only few of the other factors, like media,arts,jobs and "other" influences....
> The article was not very surprising for me too. But > the younger generation is not to be blamed entirely.
Well said,in some cases we shouldn't even think of blaming parents,if we understand what "Mahatma" was mentioning in his time,by which most of the parents of these generations we talk about have passed out,so what it means is it goes more than parent's time,but ofcourse atleast parents have a better understanding or atleast they should show that.
> Look at the syllabus they have got to read! I > remember when I was in school, most of my friends > took hindi as their second language and sanskrit as > their third language. Tamizhukku idame illai. http://www.the-week.com/22jul14/letters.htm This is an example to say that atleast for once,week agreed to the thought,that young children needs to be taught proper history,which would make one proud of one's culture,tradition,all that.... This is to remind,how european schools constantly talk of those WWs I and II,but its purpose is only to say,that wars are not solutions......and everyone makes mistakes....we need to learn from history,not repeat,with this intentions,history has to be taught,but its a challenge....but not impossible.
> Personally speaking, it was due to my own interest > that I started reading good Tamil books apart from > my school books(of course, I was looked down upon > for that. My friends thought that I was an old > fashioned girl).
Yes,Tamil will keep Tamil,as it kept and is keeping it.
More than anything, I would say > that people are trying to get more westernised and > flaunt their hindi knowledge. Its just a way of > making fashion statement!
Rootless rabble rousers are bound to be there,but they would either in their own times or in their next generations as the children realise it later...as we see some Tamils living in western countries "cries" for having not learned Tamil,bcos of their parents attitude.
> I dont know where the link got broken.... What went > wrong in between?....
Social construction,by very powerful interests is sweeping across the entire world,people are bound to face the challenge and to think if the so called MNEs helping jobs are really helping in sustaineble ways?or if those millions and billions of loans flowing are just flowing or whats its implications in the long long long terms for those locals.....remember in 149x people landed in the name of trade,later on after few centuries it took for the locals to realise what was happenening,but then they got what they wanted....
Of course there is a good > number of people who do appreciate the beauty of > Tamil in our generation too. But why does a great > number of people not even know how to read or write > their own mother tongue? Why have people stopped > appreciating their own culture?
Its the same reasons,certain people have lost their "values" to some cheap "glitters".It will take time,as that old prof, said, even if Tamils try to kill Tamil,Tamil will survive,afterall even non tamils are attracted by its sheer beauty. Remember old is gold,its not the age that matters, its even the language,concepts,values,traditions,etc....people will find their roots,when tired or frustrated,its a matter of time.
On the other hand one > feels immensely happy when one comes across people > who love tamil ("Katraarai Katraare Kaamuruvar"). My > knowledge of Tamil is not something I can be proud > about. But I love tamil and dont miss a chance to > read any Tamil literature(its an ecstatic feeling).
A true Tamil would always feel the same way and more when reading Tamil.....
> "Vaazhiya Senthamizh! Vaazhga Nattramizhar!!!" A satisfaction comes the way as there are members here and Power of Tamil keeps Tamil a proof. Tamil might not have all as Mahakavis or Kannakis in any period,but those Mahakavis and Kannakis even if they are small in number will shine amidst the "dust" produced by "others".This is what I learnt from history as I see it.
Dear all There are schools which teach tamil heritage and indian cultures and values ...bhratiya vidya bhavan is one example. It was a very valid point that currently language is not important and people have the option of hindi french and german as second language to boost their totals. I learned Kannada s my second language when we were in mysore and when we came back to tamilnadu stuggled to read tamil and the quickfix solution read all kumudam,kalki and anandhavikatan..in 2nd std..that started the desire te read in tamil nalyse tamil....and both me and my brother owe that to uor parents who encouraged our desire in the language when all our friends were told off for concentrating on language. Sridhar