• Hi Ram,

    Your articel in varalaaru about GNB is excellent. Though I dont know
    abc of music, your article struck me with awe. Heard about GNB a
    lot, but got a chance for the first time to know something about
    him.

    I have a doubt for a long time. When did the carnatic music arena
    hijacked by Telugu keerthanais. Becuase music is there from time
    immorial and our people have been singing lots of songs all these
    years. Why a sudden change in the past 100 years? I would say tamil
    keerthanais take the last seat during any katcheri. I think even
    during the 1880 or 1890's tamil songs were being sung. I think
    Nandanar sarithiram and other prasangams were at its peak.
    How come within a few decades, say from 1890 to 1930 or 40 Telugu
    keerthanais gained prominance?

    Do you or anyone in the group have any idea? Please enlighten me. Is
    it somthing like - our people are always fascinated by outside
    things than the internals. Foreign products are valued more than
    indian brands..anything on the same lines? Just wondering...
  • It's believed that Telugu keerthanas made an entry into Tamil Nadu
    only when Thayagrajar came to Thanjavur during the period of Sarfoji
    Raja. But, that might not be the firt entry, I think. During the
    period of Nayakka itself it should have been made a grant entry. It's
    clear that Marathas were really enjoy to listen the Telugu
    keerthanas.. What about cholas? Hope Ram can throw some more light on
    this issue.

    Friends,

    Reg. Thanjavur Dolls, i've started the serious question unfortunately
    it ended up with controvercy. Even though the issue was dragged to
    somewhere, the serious question is still there... "When did the
    Thanjavur dolls launched? What had made those things? "

    thanks.

    anbudan, Ramki
  • dear all
    telugus have played a great role in temil culture.
    when the original agmark tamil culture was wiped out with the demise
    of the muvendar and the installation of the madurai sultanate a
    telugu invasion re installed hinduism in this part of the country.
    some of our best temples including madurai and chidambaram have been
    rebuilt during telugu times.
    a substantial part of our population still has telugu as a mother
    toungue. so no wonder carnatic music was famous with telugu lyrics.
    arasan evvaliyO makkal avvaliyE
  • Dear Sathish,

    Below are my views which may be right are wrong.

    When we look back at carnatic music history, with the limited data we have, the music performance was more of Raaga singing or pallavi singing. There were minimal or no renditions of kirthanams. Our history has only a list of composers starting from purandaradasa, kshetrangja, tamil trinity and in the latter half of 18th century came the 'carnatic trinity'. Telugu being his mother tongue he composed several songs in telugu. But why did they become popular when compared to his predecessors whoa composed in tamil/sanskrit/kannada?

    It is because of this. The transition from composer to performer starts just after Thyagaraja. Thyagaraja is known to have innumerable amount of sishyas. Infact there were several schools like the Umayalpuram school, the manabuchaavadi school etc. The most popular earliest performers till data were Maha Vaidhyanatha Sivan and Pattanam Subramaniya iyer. Both were disciples of Thyagaraja's direct disciple based in Manambuchaavadi. The most popular musicians of the next generations like Ramnad poochi srinivasa iyengar, Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar belong to this lineage. (while the former was a disciple of patnam, ariyakudi was the disciple of Poochi). Because of this, we dont just have Thyagaraja's compositions on paper (as in just the lyrics) but we actually know the way it was done. Thyagaraja's sishyas did take pain to notate and document many of his kirthanas and thanks to people like Bangalore Nagarathnammal and Ranga Ramanuja iyengar it became public info.

    The same cannot be said abt. other composers. Today we may have Arunachala Kavi's "rama nataka kirthanais". But, hardly anybody know how it was composed. Pieces like devaram and prabandham were considered not to be fit for singing in kutcheri's. U.Ve.Sa has written a book called "sangeetha mummanigaL". In that one of the maNi is "maha vaishyanatha sivan". Being a staunch siva devotee, he would sing devaram for several hours a day sitting inside his pooja room or sitting in his house's thiNNai for the benefit of the listeners, but would never sing it in a concert, as he thought it was unappropriate. That was the mind set even in the beginning of 20th century.

    When kutcheris started becoming more professional, thanks to the sabhas formed, there were several audience with several tastes. Obviously, there was a big demand for tamil krithis. Being professionals, singers did dig deep to unearth several tamil krithis and seven before the tamil isai movement, which started in late 30's there were several people singing tamil krithis. However, tamil krithis are not readily available as thyagaraja krithis and it requires a little bit of genius like Ariyakudi, GNB, Semmangudi et. al. to bring a new krithi without compromising on the quality.

    I think Thyagaraja, for all the simple and dedicated life he lead, had a wealth of disciples, who made it a point to popularize his krithis and no other composer enjoyed such status. If not for MLV we will not have many of the Purandaradasa Kirthanas. If not for Ariyakudi we will not be waking up with thiruppavai hymns during maargazhi. In fact, there is an interesting article by Subhramanya Bharathiyar titled "sangeetha vishayam". In which, he mentions that, even in thyagaraja krithis, singers repeatedly sing only a handful like "raama nee samaana", "chakkani raaja" etc. It was only after the advent of folks like GNB, the rarer and exquisite krithis of thyagaraja came into vogue.

    Tamil krthis did take a backseat a few decades back. But today, thanks to many maestros and tamil isai movement, there is a considerable amount of tamil krithis sung as main pieces in a concert. I remember many old timers say that the entire kabaaliswaran koil would be packed when the legendary Madurai Mani iyer would sing the magnum opus kambhoji krithi "kaaNa kaN kOdi vENdum" and the rickshaw-walas would refuse to take up any savaaris when the maestro would dwell upon the lines "maanickam vayiram mudhal navarathna aabharaNangaL" and embellish the lord with his music.

    During last music season (my impressions on the last music season can be read here http://classical-music-review.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_classical-music-review_archive.html ), Sanjay Subramaniyam sang paapanasam sivan's "thanigai vaLar" as a main piece in thodi raaga. There are abt. 30 krithis composed by thyagaraja only. The same can be said abt. the Shankarabaranam sung by Vijay Shiva. My eyes were filled with tears when he sang "thookiya thiruvadi thuNaiyena nambinen", a sudhdhanandha bharathi song during the pradhosha evening. It is not that tamil krithis are not sung. But the ratio of well set krithis is say 10:1 and it is not an easy task to unearth a new krithi. The past 50 years have been only on the positive side for tamil krithis and future looks only brighter.

    All in my humble opinion.
  • I meant right "OR" wrong. karuththup pizhaigaLoda ezhuththup pizhaigaLaiyum mannichudavum:-)
  • I prefer Tamil keerthanaigal, as we can easily understand the
    meaning and sing them.

    The trend has changed now.

    After the Pancharatna composition of Tyagarajar, peopel approached
    Gopala krishna bharathi, for a similar songs. He had composed them
    all in same raga. Not many know about this.

    When Gopalakrishna bharathi, was in Mayiladuthurai, he once went to
    see Tyagaraja. Tyagaraja was in late years of his age, and they had
    a good chat. When Tyagaraja, enquired about a sing GKB, composed in
    Abhogi, GKB has said no. That night GKB, went hom and composed a
    song in Abhogi, and that was ' Sabaaabathiku Verudheivam..'.

    He sung that the next day to Tyagaraja, and they were in Bliss.
    Musicians, without jealousy and envy are hard to find.

    Long live Tamil music.


    Rajendhra Cholan!
  • Dear All
    I am a novice in carnatic music
    but i have heard that thygaraja's grandfather (maternal) was a great
    composer himself.worked in serfoji's palace.
    and he laid the foundation for a wonderful creative and artistic
    climate at tanjore court.
    is it true.
    ram can you enlighten us?
  • Venkatesh,

    Yes. Thyagaraja's maternal grandfather Girija Kavi was a poet-composer at Serfoji's court. However, not much is known abt. him to say if he laid the foundation of wonderful creative and artictic climate at tanjore court. Tanjore court was known for music right from time memorial and theoretical music peaked under nayaks thanks to the folks like govinda dikshitar, venkatamakhim etc. At the end of the 9th century came subbarama dikshithar with his sangeetha sampradhaya pradarshini, which still rocks!!!
  • there is a typo. it is 19th century and not 9th century. reg. subbarama dikshithar.
  • Hi Ram,
    This is Chandrasekaran. Hope you remember me and Uma my sister
    accompanying you all to the recent Tanjai big trip. I quote big because
    you all are frequent visitors who have lost count.
    I read your reply on GNB matter. When you quoted..
    ``The same can be said abt. the Shankarabaranam sung by Vijay Shiva. My
    eyes were filled with tears when he sang "thookiya thiruvadi thuNaiyena
    nambinen", a Sudhdhanandha bharathi song during the pradhosha
    evening..."

    Me, my sister and all my family members must have been really, I think -
    must have swept floors in some good temple in our Poorvajanmam. For
    which, we are the family members of the great Shuddhanandha Bharati.
    Unlike many of today's so-called saints, he was unique, and a
    multifaceted personality. The intorduction has been added seperately in
    the files section, as this would become tooo long a mail.
    My reason for writing this is not only the above said song, many more
    like ..

    GNB's (Purvikalyani Raag) -Karanam Kettu Vaadi, and
    Jankara Shruti Seiguvaal, Abayakarathai Parka PArtha podhu acham
    ozhindhen sivamey, Varuvano Vanakkuyiley, Kuyile unakku Kodinamaskaram
    (sung in cinemas), Arul purivaai Karunai Kadale, kadalellam kollai
    kondai kanna kanna, sakalkala vaaniye, Asai konden Vandey,(MS
    Subbulakshmi), Kuzalosai Ketkudamma, Idaya Veli thanil (NT
    Vasanthakokilam), DK Pattammal's Eppadi paadinaro, Ananda Natanam
    Adinaar, Seergazhi's - Siriputhaan Varugudaiyaa, Bayappadadiru manamey,
    Enakkena Manakavalai, Urigiduvaai Maname,Unni krishnan's - Brindavanam
    iduvo kanna vilayadi ullathai kollai konda, Sudha Raghunathan's and
    U.krishnan rendering - Kannane En KaNavan..etc.
    and many more not only were in enriched Tamil but also were very
    touching in word and meaning. Also, unlike other Ashram folks, Swamiji
    didnt capitalize on his rich forte' but gave away many manuscripts and
    songs to people left and right. But our family have been successful in
    making him live and attain samadhi in peace, in Sholapuram, near
    Sivagangai, (SPS @ SB sir visited recently with his family) and now we
    are trying all sorts to retain his lost glory and fame, and telling the
    world that many of the above works are really of Swamiji and not by
    Subrmania Bharati or any others. Also, we are successful in running a
    school for rural children upto 10th standard solely on meagre
    govt.salaries. and no external funds. Also the samaj conversion to a
    museum, the science lab, and many more projects to be taken on war
    footing. We have started conducting medical camps to the children, and
    many more regular activities after me and my brother decided to come
    back to Chennai after a long hybernation ( means- jobs in Mumbai,
    Baroda and my brother in London). Now as a joint family and also from
    support from all earning members in the family, we have also started a
    yahoo group within family members to plan and activate Shuddhanandha
    Bharati ideals and name propoganda.

    We gave cassettes to all PS group members who came for the Tanjai trip.
    All songs are part of those sung in Swamiji's school. For seperate
    keerthananjali book I can give them for any one interested whose
    proceeds will go to the school corpus fund.
    There are TAMIL songs aplenty and our family is willing to even record
    them in any poular voice or upcoming artiste with all the frills like
    orchestra, recording, audition etc. etc. Any suggestion and link to
    musicians welcome. If Ram wants to take up such cassette project, I
    will get him prior permission to do so. I remember him singing vividly,
    but within himself in the Brahadeeswara Temple. I drew close to him to
    hear the song, but could not hear fully. I knew he had great
    inclination towards Carnatic song, but was awestruck, with his blog on
    dec. festival. Any more queries - welcome! Sorry, for making PS group
    members go- off track to elaborate on Shuddhananda Bharati. The
    opportunity came and I didn't want to miss it.
    Nandriyudan,
    Chandrasekaran

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