Chozhas :: Vanavanmadevi
  • Dear Friends,

    Recent mails deal with three interesting topics :

    1. Vanavanmadevi (Thanks Pavithra - Exams over. Back in group. I have
    to check fot this answer specifically)
    2. Chozhas :: Heros or not ? Adoration ?..
    3. Historical Books List

    We can compile and put a list of Historical Books - with authenticity
    in the Files Section. May be within a week / 10 days. Good

    Chozhas Vs Pandyas : If one traces History from stone-age, nativities
    are determined regionally. Chozhas & Pandyas figure in Ramayan &
    Mahabarat! Basically they are traditional rivals. Obviously they
    are heros to some and villains to the opposite.

    We should think how heros are formed or termed... they accomplish
    what others dream about... they serve as references .. For Rajarajan
    to build Big Temple, Pallava's Kanchi Kailasanathar Temple served as
    reference! After 400 years of Suppression, Sundara Pandiyan came
    back and conquored Cholas .. Present day we see people adoring
    Chatrapathi Sivaji as a hero! By such standards, adoration of
    Rajaraja or Sundarapandiayan is not out of place!

    But Mr.Rajkumar's view is agreeable: In the context of Kalki's
    literature Vs Characters (including Kings), Characters assume
    importance. In a way, this itself is a success to Kalki himself.

    Vanavanmadevi : I used to wonder why Kalki wrote that Vanamadevi did
    not prefer to share the throne with RR - when she gave birth to
    Rajendra - the Only Crown Prince. There may be answers. I am only
    thinking aloud:

    1. Rajendra was the only son born to Rajaraja;
    2. Rajendra was born to Rajaraja & Vanamadevi @ Vanathi.

    Thiruvisalur (near Kudanthai) inscriptions of the 29th yr of RR
    mention that Rajaraja and his wife Olagamadevi @ THANDHI SAKTHI
    VIDANGI ascended Tulabaram and offered equal weight of Gold &
    enterned Hiranya Karbam (entered the Cow made of Gold through mouth
    and exited through rear!) - to avoid rebirth!

    This gives scope for a debate whether Olagamadevi is Vanathi or some
    one else. Olagamadevi has also made several offerings in Thiruviyaru
    (along with Kundavi - she bade the highest for the reclaimed lands
    from cauvery river and gifted to temple! NOT acquired by Government
    Order! That is why these Royal families are adored)-
    Thiruvalanchuzhi Kshethrabalar. One Vikramachozha Moovenda Velalan
    constructed a temple in her name at Olagapuram near Marakkanam!

    Recently there is another theory that it is indeed Oalagamadevi who
    is Vanathi! I will check with the Learned and mail.

    Nice to see new generations taking leads ... Best wishes,

    Fondly, SB
  • Hi all,

    My aim is to get good knowledge about history. I
    told my point of view. Mentor is different from
    leader. As far as I am concerned, we can accept great
    people as mentor and nobody as leader.

    I also like all the characters in PS, other chola
    kings like Karikalan, kulothungan etc. I really wonder
    about their acheivements.

    If we love a person, it doesn't mean that he is
    always correct. In that angle only I told that.
  • Hi all,
    My Name is Kanagarasu S and people call me as Kanagu. I just joined this group 2 days back. I am yet to read old debates/discussions in the archive.Hope i'll have good readings for the coming weeks...:-)

    I have thot abt SB's ques- "This gives scope for a debate whether Olagamadevi is Vanathi or some one else."

    I think there is hint for this in "PS Mudivurai" itself. In his "Mudivurai" Kalki listed out some Q/A, right?. In that refer Q/A #8.
    Kalki writes..." Vanathi kadasi varai ariyanai eramal than sabhathathai niraivetrukiral. RR udan ariyanai eriyathu Olagamadevi enum matroru arasi aavaal.".

    This gives a clear picture that both Vanathi & Olagamadevi are diff, right?

    You people have read somany historical books. But I never read any book other than PS. So, pls correct me if I am wrong...:-)
  • > 1. Rajaraja's PATTA MAHISHI - who shared UDANIRUKKAI - was indeed
    > Danthisakthi vidangi @ Olagamadevi and NOT Vanamadevi - mother of
    > Rajendra and both are different;

    This is slightly confusing. It has always been a practice in the
    chola kingdom that it will be the son of paata mahishi (the royal
    queen) who will be the heir apparent. This practice was stricly
    followed to avoid confusions and internal family wars. This can be
    deduced from a study of the entire later chola genology.

    Going by this :

    * Either rajendra should have been the son of Ologamadevi


    * The practice should have been deviated for some very definite
    reason - in case of rajendra.

    This needs further research.
  • Hi All,

    It sounds very absurd to think that Rajendra was
    the only male heir out of 14 wives of RR. Probably
    Rajendra was the eldest and others would not have
    survived long. May be RR's pattamahishi had only

    But one thing is for sure that Rajendra was almost 50
    yrs old when he became the king in 1014. Akilan and
    Vikraman have confirmed this as per history in
    'Vengayin maindhan' and 'Nandhipurathu nayaki"
    respectively. Based on this fact,Rajendra would have
    born in 964. But RR became king only in 985 by then
    Rajendra would have been in his late teens. Uthama
    chola's reign begins only in 970 after sundara chola.
    Rajendra was born even before that.

    Going by this i think kalki is correct cause in PS he
    mentions that "KudandhaiJothidar's vakku padi 2yrs
    kazhithu margazhi thiruvadirai nallil oru aan
    kuzhandhai chola naatil pirandhadhu" in "Seenathu
    vanikarkal" chapter when kundavai and vanadhi meet
    kudandhai jothidar.

    The Article "A brief historical survey on medieval
    Cholas and their relations with the Cheras (Keralas)
    of the contemporary period", states that Rajendra
    chola builds a temple in srilanka in memory of his
    mother vanavanmadevi.

    Rajendra's mother is not the pattamahishi of RR. Only
    one doubt remains now. Who is vanavanmadevi? Is she
    vanadhi or someone else?

    My guess is that chola queens have the Kula peyar
    "Madevi" succeding their original names. So may be
    vanadhi's name changes to vanavanmadevi after she
    marries arulmozhi.

  • > But one thing is for sure that Rajendra was almost 50
    > yrs old when he became the king in 1014. Akilan and
    > Vikraman have confirmed this as per history in
    > 'Vengayin maindhan' and 'Nandhipurathu nayaki"
    > respectively.

    This is pure imagination. No basis. It is extremely difficult to get
    the age of any king unless we get some accidental information from
    one of the epigraphs.
    For ex, no info is available on rajaraja's age inspite of numerous

    I'll post another mail on RR's sons.
  • Anbulla Gokul, Priya Jayaraman, Sunder - yavarkkum Vanakkam.

    I list below few details from some of the Incriptions of Rajaraja -
    Chola - 1 & Rajendra Chola - 1, which gives usefull informations on

    belonging to the 4th year of Rajaraja Chola - 1 (SII – vol v No: 982)
    we note the following:

    "96 sheep for a lamp by Udaiyapirattiyar Tambiranadigal Vanavan-
    madeviyar 'alias' Tribhuvana-madeviyar the mother of Sri Rajendra
    Cola devar and the queen of Sri Rajarajadeva"

    in which the regnal year is missing and of Rajendra Chola -1 (460 of
    1908)we note the following:

    "Gold by Udaiyapirattiyar Tribhuvana-mahadeviyar mother of the king…"

    belonging to the 21st year of Rajaraja Chola - 1 (SII vol v page518)
    we note the following:

    "Temple of Lokamadevisvara built by queen of Rajaraja Dantisakthi-
    Vitanki alias Loka-mahadevi……."

    belonging to the 25th year of Rajaraja Chola - 1 (SII vol viii page
    234)we note the following:

    "Ornaments by Rajaraja's queen Dantisakthi Vitanki alias
    Lokamahadevi, his daughter Kundavi the queen of Vimaladitya, and his
    middle daughter Madevadigal, to the shrine of Ksetrapala-deva which
    had been built by the king"
  • So Priya Jayaraman has been member for the past 4 years !

    Very good mails.. congrats.


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