Please read the last two lines .... The clue is the man compares himself as the farmer with a plough... and women as a land wet and ready... The last lines are very open double meaning(allusion in purist terms)...Please understand it and enjoy it...i cant explain it!
Vairam: I love tamil and anything that comes along with it. I enjoy all the versions, the third is my best however.
I will keep it simple and those who want to investigate can do it. I can say in a simple cue: Land is prakriti, Tiller is the Paramatma and seed is the jeevatma. The Gita also explains this, I am sure there are experts here who can read between the lines. As with any ancient literature in india, unless one understands and appreciates the philosophy behind it, the literature remains embedded waiting for it to be decoded...somewhere there are people like those who read into davinci code and there are alwys people to dismiss them :-)
9th class tamil text book, I still have it, along with treasured memories of the teacher who taught us and explained so elegantly that we would learn to enjoy and understand with time, all that is expressed in the poem!!
Vairam, thank you for sharing such treasures with us. Ravi, as they would say down south in american chaste english 'you gotta chill out yah!'. :)
Hi, All the Tamil books are online now in PDF format...somebody sent me a link recently. So people who want to relook Tamil can start from 1st Std. Text book!.... When I was in Second std I had a lesson called Kayalvili...it explains her getting up, brushing, bathing,eating, going to school and whole day routine...flash back rewind panalam nu tried looking into second std book but unfortunately portions have changed! Some how I feel you need to be an adult and should learn the meaning on your own to understand most of the Akam poems. The emotions and allusions cannot be surely understood when you are kid and a teacher who takes care that you really dont understand the intended allusions! :D ....
Vairam, of course you need to be an adult to appreciate it fully. Books have changed a lot, i saw ninth grade text book it was quite unlike anything we learnt. On the other hand, these poems and stories in those days were subtle ways of educating growing children on adult realities, there was no television or internet in those days so pondering on what it means perhaps is a gentle way to waken the adult in a child and far less intrusive that modern methods :)
My grandmother used to say the subtle practical intention behind young women chanting Tiruppavai (to get married soon) was similar, a gentle awakening of adult emotions mixed with devotional rasa,
But one great thing about Sangam is it describes every small feeling lovers have.Young Kids of school though have access to internet and use to its maximum utility can never understand it , till they grow as an adult and experience something called love. The feelings are too subtle, one has to experience such kind of feelings to really appreciate the depth of the poem.
The problem these days is every thing is so open the art of being subtle is totally missing, the fine line between being artistic and being gross is often crossed.
No wonder every scholar who has read Sangam literature says the greatness of Sangam poetry has never been surpassed in this 2000 years. The greatness of Sangam lies in its simple down to earth feelings.Probably this would be the only class of poetry in India which was so secular and concerned with lives of common people.
Kovil la vekka vendiya ambal sirpatha eduthu chicago / royal ontario museum la vecha, anga pakka varra alunga adhai virasama pesama vedanthama pesuvanga? Kal a? Kalai ya? kadavula ?
pakiravanga parvaiyile thaan irukku...
On a ligher note: Up till now, I had never approved on MJ converting himself to white :-)
I am reminded of the kannadasan lines Deivam endraal adhu deivam, verum silai endraal adhu silai dhaan, undendraal adhu undu, illai endraal adhu illai..
Sangam poetry introduction kidathadhe andha 9th class text book vazhiyaga dhaan...granted subtleties puriya naal agum, but indha madhiri treasures rukku endre theriyama ethana per irukkaanga? On a lighter note too, I personally dont' believe the plowman kavidhai was intented for any spiritual purpose, just down to earth, very appealing love poem that is all (that is enough spirituality sometimes :))
You see, kasadara karka mudiyala na nirka mudiyathu... so by logic...kasadara pannala na karkamale irukkalam :-)
>just down to earth, very appealing love poem that is all in essence, bodhai la iruntha budhi theliyathu ;-) Do not drink and drive ... naan sollala...
Ennappa, kindala, advice? Ignorant ingareenga? Ok sollittlu ponga no problem. Chumma iru is actually the highest spiritual teaching.
On a serious note, I am not ignorant as far as spirituality goes. I don't think it is appropriate to mix it everywhere and coming up with creative interpretations. As an example - It is your call if you find 'kodi asaidhanadum' as a lofty spiritual work, just fyi even Kaviarasar never listed it anywhere in his favorites, just a romantic song that is often known in western world as 'chicken and egg story, which came first. But your call if you think that lofty, dont think others are drunk if they don't !!
one thought occurred to me now.... Already discussed in Kannadasan thread, 'padaipathanal nanum kadavul than'..if you are able to create you are god...
Then think in the point of view of a sculptor who is also a creator....if he thinks its just stone he is working on, his motive is pure art, he is a creator who creates some thing which has never been in this world(like the god himself). Think about it in another angle if he thinks, he is making god out of the stone... then he becomes the god who created the god worshiped by so many... how good it would be for whim while he works ...to know that the creator of the world is getting a rebirth through his own hands!
Whether you see it as Kal/Kadavul/Kalai ... the sole reason the stone is placed in the museum is to respect the creativity of the GOD(sculptor) who created it.
malathi: that was a pun...ungala yaar sonna? soll arra is right, summa iruntha poduma. 12 varusham kazichi thirupugazh thaan varum... on a serious note: I am not mixing spirituality everywhere, but just for kurunthokai, i believe it is about the Lord n Lady of Kurunchi hills. Ellathayum spiritual overview la pakkara alavukku naan yenna gyaniya? Athuvum, ithu solara edathula thaan sollanum, athu enakku theriyum. I stop with kurunthokai.
My view, Kodi asainthathum is deja vu concept. Yaarku venumo avanga yosikkalam. KD 1000's of songs ezuthinaru, ellathukum blog create parikkara? A poet writes with his heart and more than 90% of time does not recollect what he felt at that moment, thats why they write it down. We may never what he really thought while he wrote that.
> > Whether you see it as Kal/Kadavul/Kalai ... the sole reason the stone > is placed in the museum is to respect the creativity of the > GOD(sculptor) who created it. > > Regards, > Vairam >
Hi vairam,
A stone that is sculpted by a sculptor doesnt become god - meaning its is not treated as moolavar ( if in stone) or utsavar ( if metal) just like that.... there are a lot of proceedings ( ok - you may call it rituals) - which are performed to infuse the idol with the qualities that lift if from being a mere mortal creation to the plane where it becomes fit for worship. Thats with regard to temple sculpture - its an entire subject by itself.
as regards the god of man's creation and the man of god's creation - these are concepts that have spawned entire religions. the question of who is god is different from is God there.
so what does god look like etc is for us to see within ourselves - to focus our thoughts, to look inwards etc are different schools of thought. ultimately it all comes to faith and beliefs - a fistfull of turmeric becomes ganesha - so too does a handful of clay.
But the beauty in all this is the transformation was right in front of the eyes of the worshipper and once transformed the powers were deemed to be infused into the idol. this is the power of suggestion - but i would like to disagree on the sculpture being in a museum just to honor the craftsmen - its all in the eyes of the beholder and not the location. I can vouch of this personally - a year back i had such a profound experience - a chance visit to the singapore museum....reposting below
We were greated at the entrance itself by a cut out of a chola bronze - an 11th C Uma Parameshwari. There were a couple of other chola bronzes ..incl one of Sambandar. There was also a beautiful stone sculpture of Subramaniar - chola era
Unfortunately the piece de resistance - the Uma paramershwari idol was a special exhibit and the guards wouldnt allow us to take pictures of this one alone...
The beauty of this piece was breathtaking - more than the aura of seeing the handiwork of agifted artist over 1000 years ago - the sheer mastery ofcraftsmanship left us spell bound. statue was at best 2 feet in height, but the detailing was exqusite...the grace and calm of herface and love in the smile, the lovely locks of her hair fallinginto rolling tresses over her sholders..the intricate ornaments on his neck, the grace of her poise - the gentle sway acccentuating the narrow waist, the beautiful and elaborate work on his lower garments..her hands and fingers bring life to the figurine...it was the pure mixing of artistic beauty with spirituality - the experience left me spell bound - which is what the original chola patrons would have wanted the image to do...
Hi Vijay, I am surely ignorant about temple sculpture. I spoke more in terms of the thought process of the sculpture.. though there might be so many procedures before installing a sculpture as god...the creator of the idol would have had immense pleasure while he created it.. Very similar thought process like Andal had ...happiness that the garland she had woven would be used to decorate the lord... Even till day you will see people happy when the garland they bring is used to decorate the lord in the temple. I spoke about simple emotions/happiness that people have and what kind of happiness sculptor would have had when he knows the idol he is sculpting is going to be installed in a temple.
Yes great point!! Kannadasan mudhal ella creativity uru aavadhu deiva thanmaiyinaal - very different from 'deivam' or man playing God/thinking He is God. Again not that you have to believe in God even, generally playing God is an egoistic statement that is all.
There is a whole south indian temple installed within Philadelphia Museum of Art. It was 'sold' or so I heard by a famous south indian merchant (brothers) some years ago, how they 'sold' century old art is quite a mystery but possible considering the sad state of our temples and historical monuments.
An exhibit in a museum is of course not the same purpose as a temple exhibit - but look at some of our temples, the century old pillars 'adorned' by human spittle, red dye(kumkum?:)) and waste and names scribbled on stone where the sculptor himself did not leave his..Some of them are much better off as museum exhibits atleast our future generations will get to see them in good form.
My posting on this subject (subject changed to Uliyin Osai) was before reading your mails. Touch wood. sps ======
> Hi vairam, > > A stone that is sculpted by a sculptor doesnt become god - meaning > its is not treated as moolavar ( if in stone) or utsavar ( if metal) > just like that.... there are a lot of proceedings ( ok - you may > call it rituals) - which are performed to infuse the idol with the > qualities that lift if from being a mere mortal creation to the > plane where it becomes fit for worship. Thats with regard to temple > sculpture - its an entire subject by itself. > > as regards the god of man's creation and the man of god's creation - > these are concepts that have spawned entire religions. the question > of who is god is different from is God there. > > so what does god look like etc is for us to see within ourselves - > to focus our thoughts, to look inwards etc are different schools of > thought. ultimately it all comes to faith and beliefs - a fistfull > of turmeric becomes ganesha - so too does a handful of clay. > > But the beauty in all this is the transformation was right in front > of the eyes of the worshipper and once transformed the powers were > deemed to be infused into the idol. this is the power of suggestion - > but i would like to disagree on the sculpture being in a museum > just to honor the craftsmen - its all in the eyes of the beholder > and not the location. I can vouch of this personally - a year back i > had such a profound experience - a chance visit to the singapore > museum....reposting below > > We were greated at the entrance itself by a cut out of a chola > bronze - an 11th C Uma Parameshwari. There were a couple of other > chola bronzes ..incl one of Sambandar. There was also a beautiful > stone sculpture of Subramaniar - chola era > > Unfortunately the piece de resistance - the Uma paramershwari idol > was a special exhibit and the guards wouldnt allow us to take > pictures of this one alone... > > The beauty of this piece was breathtaking - more than the aura of > seeing the handiwork of agifted artist over 1000 years ago - the > sheer mastery ofcraftsmanship left us spell bound. statue was at > best 2 feet in height, but the detailing was exqusite...the grace > and calm of herface and love in the smile, the lovely locks of her > hair fallinginto rolling tresses over her sholders..the intricate > ornaments on his neck, the grace of her poise - the gentle sway > acccentuating the narrow waist, the beautiful and elaborate work on > his lower garments..her hands and fingers bring life to the > figurine...it was the pure mixing of artistic beauty with > spirituality - the experience left me spell bound - which is what > the original chola patrons would have wanted the image to do... > > this is the image... > > http://www.acm.org.sg/exhibitions/eventdetail.asp?eventID=184 > > enjoy > > vj >
Again, neenga conceptually different people comparison panaringa... Comparing Andal with Ayana chirpi is totally wrong. Andal, is an epitome of Bhakti or She is devotion itself. She, if I am allowed to say, is greater than Ranganatha himself. As with Valli, where it is said 'Kura magal iru patham paritha sekara', devotion has that respect with the greater spiritual plane.
Ayana sirpi's love for sculpture is dazzled when sivakami is lost. Andal...Ranga is NEVER lost.
In any form, Andal's poo malai or paa malai, never die with time, but Ayana sirpi may be lost in a few hundred years. Any art alone is mortal but lives longer than any human work, however art (poo malai - paa malai etc) devoted in the service of God, is immortal.
I believe there is a vaishnava expert here to guide us on Andal, i am too small a being to talk of such a great bhaktai, even to think of her as human.
ecstatic... ethanai thadavai padithalum kannil neer perugum kavithaigal. on Lord embracing earth on his Love for her, similarly in thirupugazh there is a line in song 'Allil nerum' of Valliyur Quote 'valli maar irupuramaga valliyur urai perumale' valli here is the smaller 'la' as in two beauties, Valli, the lover is Bhumi and Deva kunjari is considered as the devalokam (spiritual plane), and the Lord embaraces both of them to his heart as one.
Lord nudging with his tusks may sound R rated but in thathuvam it is not. Infact, as I had pointed out earlier, Andal's verses if looked at one single file thought process may sound extremely erotic, with a secondry thought, they are possibly the best in kindling your atma.
as anuman said, 'kanden seethayai'.... I am a bit excited.
Many of our group members must be already knowing this, but for a novice like me its a treasure (how far I am going to use it..will i ever use it, time only will answer).
I came across www.tamilvu.org and under their library section, they have almost all the sangam literature, with.. urai...this is what I was looking for. Because Project Madurai gives only the original text but not the 'urai'...
I am yet to browse fully the library, thought will share with the group, before I proceed.
> A stone that is sculpted by a sculptor doesnt become god - meaning > its is not treated as moolavar ( if in stone) or utsavar ( if metal) > just like that.... there are a lot of proceedings ( ok - you may > call it rituals) - which are performed to infuse the idol with the > qualities that lift if from being a mere mortal creation to the > plane where it becomes fit for worship. Thats with regard to temple > sculpture - its an entire subject by itself.
While it is true that certain rituals called "prathistai" makes the idol get the Godly powers, it is also true that the God is Omnipresent. He also manifests in every form that his devotee thinks of Him. Remember the pAsuram from Prabhandham that I quoted during discussion on Ramanuja ("thamar ugandhadhu evvuruvam, avvuruvam thAnE.."). That was a Vaishnavite work. I am pretty sure that the same would have been said by Nayanmars as well. Afterall, keeping aside certain High level philosophies and the Supreme God differences, the AzhwArs and Nayanmars talk about the same love and devotion.
Just to substantiate this, are we not seeing so many sculptures in the pillars of a temple being worshipped as Gods by devotees out of love and affection. These sculptures are not consecrated. Still they go about doing pradhakshiNam or kaRpUra hArathi for these. This is what is signified in the pAsuram "thamar ugandhadhu...". So the words of Kannadasan as quoted by Malathi "Kadavul enru pArthAl, kadavuL, silai endru pArthAl silai" is exactly in the same lines.
In fact the lines of KD as quoted by Malathi, "uNdu enRAl uNdu, illai endrAl illai" is also sung by NammAzhwAr in ThiruvAimozhi,
Similarly regarding the "satha kooru", the very next pAsuram says
"parantha thaN paRavayuL nIr thorum parandhuLan parantha aNdamidhena, nila visumbu ozhivara karantha sil idanthorum idam thigazh poruLthorum karandhengum parandhuLan ivayuNda suranE"
That He is omnipresent in every water, land, sky and everything that is manifest and unmanifest is signified here. The upanishads, glorify this aspect of the Supreme God as "aNoraNIyAn mahatho mahIyAn". He is the smallest of the smallest atom and the largest of the largest thing to exist in the universe".
Taking this into cognizance, it wouldn't be unfair to say that if one sees a sculpture as a true god, it indeed becomes one, no matter if the ritualistic consecration is done or not.
> so what does god look like etc is for us to see within ourselves - > to focus our thoughts, to look inwards etc are different schools of > thought. ultimately it all comes to faith and beliefs - a fistfull > of turmeric becomes ganesha - so too does a handful of clay.
Very well said Vijay. This is exactly what I tried to describe above.
> But the beauty in all this is the transformation was right in front > of the eyes of the worshipper and once transformed the powers were > deemed to be infused into the idol. this is the power of suggestion - > but i would like to disagree on the sculpture being in a museum > just to honor the craftsmen - its all in the eyes of the beholder > and not the location.
Again another well said sentence and I was meaning this too above. While I am not greater authority than you to certify you, I only wanted to substantiate these words, by providing certain references to the spiritual scriptures. So please do not mistake me as I am trying to certify you.
Well said!! I am very much with you on this. Just to corroborate, we all know the story of ManakkOil koNda MaNikkanAr. It is know to all that God, just ignored the temple built by the king and placed Himself in the heart of this devotee. Yes, it is the BhAvam of Love and Servitude, which is important here.
Again another quote from NammAzhwar. He says
"poosum sAndhu en nenjamE, punayun kaNNi enadhuyirE vAsagam sei mAlayE vAn pattAdayum agdhE thEsamAna aNigalanum en kai kooppuch cheigayE Isan gnyAlam uNdu umizhndha endhai Eka mUrthikkE".
This situation is a similar blissful situation like Andal experienced. Here the Azhwar goes to the extent of saying that his Heart is the Sandhanam, and his Life is the Poem, and chanting His names is the Garland etc.... At this state, it does not matter, whether the Idol is consecrated or not. He (Nammazhwar) even goes to the extent of saying
"uNNum sORu, parugum nIr, thinnum vetRilai, ellam kaNNan.." and obviously we do not consecrate these vasthus. Right?
> Unfortunately the piece de resistance - the Uma paramershwari idol > was a special exhibit and the guards wouldnt allow us to take > pictures of this one alone... > > this is the image... > > http://www.acm.org.sg/exhibitions/eventdetail.asp?eventID=184 >
Sorry for taking a new question out of this. It is just my curiosity. On seeing the picture, I noticed that Uma Parameshwari was sporting a "poonal". Just curious to know, if there is any reference to ladies wearing a Poonal in older days.
> > Again another well said sentence and I was meaning this too above. > While I am not greater authority than you to certify you, I only > wanted to substantiate these words, by providing certain references > to the spiritual scriptures. So please do not mistake me as I am > trying to certify you. > > > Regards, > Venkatesh >
hi venkatesh
you are welcome - we are all learning and thanks for those extensive works. but one thing you need to know is that when you talk of alwars and nayanmaars - these were special people - they had already reached a plane - a divine sublime state - where they could see the manifestations of the lords in everything.
But to the common man he needed more tools and had to led on the path - temples, worship, rituals, the mantras - are all tools that help the not so endowed common man to see the higher light - to help him focus... its akin to a walker ( toy) for a baby or training wheels for a novice cycle learner - at first you just cant do without the supports, but once you have mastered the craft - you dont need them.
The concept of a hindu temple, its construction, placement of idols - every slab, every elevation - has a meaning - they are there for a purpose and the purpose is to help you attain the best state to experience god.
Have you guys come across some good western country music ? I guess you both are based in the US... Most of these songs carry this tender feeling in utterly simple words. Lets sample a few songs here, if you have the patience to read:
George Strait - It just comes natural ====================================
Sun shines, Clouds rain, Train whistles blow and guitars play, Preachers preach, farmers plow, Wishes go up and the world goes round.
And I love you, It just come natural, It just comes natural. Seasons change, Rivers wind. Tumble weeds roll and the stars shine. Wind howls, dawn breaks Cowboys riding' time slips away.
And I love you, It just come natural, It's what I was born to do, Don't have to think it through, Baby, it's so easy loving you It just come natural.
Fire burns, waves crash, Seeds grow and good things last, Ships sail, dreams fly, Night falls and full moons rise.
And I love you, It just come Natural And I love you, It just come Natural It just come Natural It just come Natural
Don Williams - Nobody, but you ==============================
Who, by touching my hand Makes me understand, questions my heart is asking Who, opened my eyes, made me realise Love is everlasting
Nobody but you, nobody but you Nobody else, could love me, like you do Nobody but you, could see me through Your love is true and I don't need nobody but you
Who comes just close enough And shows me that love is nothing to be afraid of Who, holds me so tight every night And shows me what love is made of
Nobody but you, nobody but you Nobody else, could love me, like you do Nobody but you, could see me through Your love is true and I don't need nobody but you
Don Williams - Lay down beside me =================================
I've spent my life looking for you Finding my way wasn't easy to do but I knew there was you all the while And it's been worth every mile
So lay down beside me Love me and hide me Kiss all the hurtin' of this world away Hold me so close that I feel your heartbeat And don't ever wander away
Mornings and evenings all were the same And there was no music till I heard your name But I knew when I saw you smile Now I can rest for a while
So lay down beside me Love me and hide me Kiss all the hurtin' of this world away Hold me so close that I feel your heartbeat And don't ever wander away
+++
I can just go on ( or may be write about 1 song per week! )... one of my ambitions is to write a treatise on Cankam poetry and contemporary country music.
As I see this message from the group's website, I see some obscure characters below for the verses of Andal. Please tell me how to read it properly. I mean what should I do to my PC, so that I can read it properly. I have most of the Tamizh fonts installed in my PC.
You are absolutely right here. That is why I did mention that, I am not against rituals. But saying that only the rituals make a stone become God, is something I am unable to digest, as for me, the "thamar ugandhadhu" pAsuram is more appealing.
As you correctly pointed out, all these are various steps towards realising one's true self and hence march towards the ultimate reality that is God.
Aaandal enaga Theenda thagatha Kadavula...oru comparisionu kooda use pannkoodathunu solluringa...
Andal than soodiya maalayai kadavul mel soodum pothu keditha santhosam pol ...ov oru thai pillayai endru edukum pothu perum santhosam adikiral ...nu kooda oru comparison panna koodathu nu solluringa...
Antha thai ketavla erukalam...nanga thaiyum Andalooda characterstics compare pannala..rendu per adaintha santhosatha compare pannuurom.... thayavu seithu simile olunga puringikitu comment panna nalla erkum!