As for me, the movie just satisfied my expectation. The 2nd half was a bit of a drag and the most irritating characters were that of Asin's and the muslim Kamalhassan. Asin was total crack and that was the biggest minus of the movie. Another thing was the Panjathantiram type of comedy midst of supposedly high intensity chase. Other than that the movie was a great entertainer. The fight sequence, I could easily say the best in the indian movies so far, almost at par with the hollywood movies. The best Kamal is that of the dalit leader Aravamudan, a character made to talk only to the point, no more no less. As Sathis pointed out, the link between the 12th century sequence and the rest of the movie is not obvious. I made an interpretation that, Kamal and Asin gets killed by the statue and gets together again by the statue :-)
Over all it was a good entertainer, historic folks of our group will be disappointed though.
When Superstar can come back to life after an hour...., yea sure..Avtaar singh can have cancer cured by a bullet. When Sivaji can hit some 200 odd men in 15 min and transact millions of dollars from being a no body with a Re.1 investment and having built an empire being a s/w consultant ...sure... kamal is way behind logistics.
What I fail to understand is why such reporters cannot see things in the same light.
Dear All There have been a flurry of activities in the last two weeks...Been busy teacjing in Paris and in a conference in Bologna Italy...
I have heard two versions of arguements Ill write my opinion on Wedenesday..after watching it..
Campaorisons have been made to Shivaji....MMKR... Shivaji was a out and out no holds barred masala....
People talk about Kamal because he has talent and is capalble of doing some remarkable roles....But I am tending to agree with most why do all of them? Only to do one more than Sivaji....Navarathiri...he didnt have highfy holywood make up man but each charector stood out on its own...I am amazed no one talked about that at all....
MMKR was good without Make up...Indiana and Avvai Shanmugi were good with makeup though a lot of expressions were lost in AV....Suganya in Indian will beg to differ cause she may well have been weraing a mask....
So thats where people come from....
I liked his Vettaiyaadu Vilayaadu where he had acted his age in a nice gripping Thriller though people said that movie was 2 decades ahead of Indian Culture and Indian Audience...Unfortunately Truth Hurts thats what happens in real world Gory ...stuff...Yes it was a bit upsetting to see two doctors as the culprits but hey they are human as well and there are flawed humans in all walks of life
I have tried hard not to reveal any spoilers in here.Apologies if there are any.
I personally think the movie is pretty good. The first five minutes of the movie where Kamal starts off narrating his views about Science and God is pretty important and forms the basis of the story. The 12th century story and the current happenings also gels well with that theory. (Of course I do not endorse that view though)
Kamal also tries to provide some insights into Chaos theory(and the butterfly effect). Only if one watches the movie in that perspective, one can understand some of the key characters of the movie and how some of the smaller acts(which although appears silly though) that they perform have an impact at the end. (Kamal might have marked 10 such characters and chosen to play the 10 characters because of this reason too and so his egoistic self might not be the only reason why he chose to play 10 characters). It is a very good screenplay trying to connect the various characters, painting them in different shades, sizes and shapes and also some times telling the story at places in a non-linear sequence. If one doesn't understand the reason behind the creation of 10 characters one wouldn't be able to appreciate their presence. Kamal as usual tries to put his atheistic/agnostic views about God and it did not really matter to me, as it would take a lot more than just a movie to change my opinion in this respect. As it is expected of Kamal, each and every minute detail on the characters has been very well etched.I also thought that some of the names of the characters in the movie were interesting(when compared to real avatars).In my opinion, Kamal as a perfectionist has exceeded my expectations easily and I beleive, as a movie Dasavatharam stands really tall.
Yes, the graphics could have been done better and they do not live up to the hollywood standard that most of the people expected it to be.
I think the amount of money I spent for the movie ticket is really worth every penny, for the value of entertainment it provided to me.I do not think the movie is that bad as it has been projected in some of the reviews.
If somebody paint the historical references made in the movie, then we our members will find out the percentage of truth behind it. We may be able to consider whether the movie can be used as a reference to history or purely fictional, entertainer and should be disregarded.
So far, it seems that the reference to 12th Century is not relevant in the movie. Request members who have seen it to post the dialogues, real life character names, etc.,
I am not a great movie buff. I seldom go to theaters or watch movies frequently. But I enjoy good movies and hate to watch silly movies All movies are for entertainment, let it be Sivaji or Dasavatharam or any other crap movie. Its produced only for one purpose - money for the producers and entertainment for the audience.
And definitely Dasavatharam is an wholesome entertainer and surely a milestone in Indian cinema. Except Kamal no one else could dare to dream such things.
Everyone says, they missed the Kamal of Nayagan or moondram pirai or sagara sangamam....when he has done all those already, why should he do the same thing again? Everyone accepts that Kamal is an outstanding actor and he has portrayed best of his roles, then why should he do which already he is good at? Surely any skilled person will try to do something different which has already not been done. Microsoft's windows 95 was a mega hit. Does this mean, they should not have ventured into any other OS of the later years? Should they be selling only 95 till date because they were good at that, at that point of time? Silly argument, i would say.
Its all parinama valarchi. If it has to be termed super ego, let it be. He has the stuff to be an egoist. After all he is human.
We should be magnanimous to appreciate the thought process and hard work went into this at the same time comment on the flaws. If Kamal made us to cry in Mahanadhi, doesnt mean he should do that in every movie. Watch the movie as an entertainer and surely its worth it.
And if I want to derive philosophy out of it, Kamal, knowingly or unknowingly has done a wonderful job by giving beautiful philosophy n this movie.
Dear Dr Sri, I did mention Navarathiri as a classic in my response. Navarithiri is a true showcase of Sivaji's acting talent, it is very difficult to choose which of those 9 roles he really excelled in, they were all one better than the other and the movie truly did not have one dull moment.
The reason why Navarithiri stands apart, the actor once again did what he was good at - acting, and left other things to people who excelled in them. Second, a strong story line and no other distraction for the audience.
Satish, nobody disputes your liking the moviel- liking a movie is purely someone's taste, there is nothing in it to be defended about..
I disagree with you that 'super ego' is a 'parinama valarchi', it is in fact an immature way to grow. Yes Kamal has done many roles and we can't expect him to do similar roles. But that does not mean he can do everything either, acting is a talent, same way script writing/direction/everything is a talent some people are blessed with. A good script writer need not be a good actor and vice versa. A similar example to what Kamal did is what the late NTR did in telugu - his Narthanashala made in 1953 with a great team (SVR as Kechaka and Savirti as Draupadi) is a great classic and is even used at some universities abroad for indian mythological studies. NTR tried to remake the same movie with himself playing all the key roles - Krishna, Arjuna, Kechaka etc. The movie flopped miserably and was quite unbearable.
Growth is possible if one is realistic about one's own talents and capabilities. Laurence Olivier and Peter O Toole in the later days did custom stage appearances and taught a lot of young actors. Sivaji did not venture beyond his own acting capabilities but did some great very mature roles. SV Rangarao cautiously directed couple of movies and stopped soon after.
The comparison to Rajini movies is the same thing that used to happen between MGR and Sivaji fans. Am not venturing there.
Sorry to bring this topic again. As I said earlier, the movie is a milestone in Indian cinema and has a lot of philosophy in it. I didnt spell out everything that i was thinking about the movie.
Today I stepped on this comment by someone in www.imdb.com (international movie database) and this reflects most of the things which I was thinking.
Very interesting post, thanks Satish. I have not seen this movie and so i do not choose to judge too much. But to my mind, you can fit any darn tamil movie into chaos theory!!! I mean reverse engineer the story to say this is related to that, you will get it. I have seen some fake spiritual gurus do the same with Karmic theories, i mean come up with hugely contrived explanations especially on puranic stories (eg Vali was someone in his first birth, Sri Rama was someone else they are balancing karma, this that).
Kamal is a very smart guy, really he has introduced these big concepts like he is doing something great while telling a regular movie story. It does not hurt people to think, so I don't think that is anything wrong. It does take a Kamal however to make people think that these concepts can be pondered on with the aid of his movie!!
Butterfly effect,in essence, means that small variables in the intial state of a system can result in calamities/unexpected results during a later stage. We, project managers, are hammered this on regular basis to catch up with the issues/defects at the start of the project else pay the price during delivery. But I think for all the pseudo-intellectual explanation, I dont think Dasavatharam is a 'butterfly effect' movie. Its just a plain thriller that is executed well. I would think '12B' as a butterfly effect movie (which is a copy of 'Sliding doors') which diverges at an earlier point and a seemingly innocous decision to board a bus results in drastically different results. To connect the first 20 minutes of the movie (which BTW is the brilliant part of the entire movie) with the rest, the mail says this "Kamal does tell to Asin in a dialogue that idol which gets sunken back then gets struck between the tectonic plates under the sea and causes tsunami" May be I didn't hear it right when I watched it. But the above sentence is the most, absolute BS that can be said and I believe Kamal is not stupid enough to say such a thing. I mean, the writer has no idea of tectonic plates or the subduction process that creates a Tsunami. He/she assumes everyone to be the same and postulates something that is nothing but horse crap. I am not a Kamal fan (primarily because of the intolerable intellectual pretense of his fans in presuming him to be something other than what he is i.e a good actor and someone who works hard, ref. 'ulaga nayagane' song, hubris, anyone?). But I found the movie to be a neat entertainer and having some interesting concepts, new to tamil cinema. No unnecessary songs, biggest relief no Vivek or Vadivelu. I agreed with Jeyamohan's review posted sometime before in this forum. Its just a pop-corn movie and trying to paint it as something else is like trying to understand aliens after watching the 'IJ and crystal skull'.
Hi All, The form of screenplay technique used in the movie is by itself an example of Chaos, The technique is what is reffered to as Non Linear Screenplay, Sujatha (aka Rangarajan) had written about this in one of the kelvi pathil in KP in 2006. The ability to correlate Chaos to most of our life is by itself a challenge and an art
I had an opportunity to be present in one of the discussions of ponnin selvan, when they were trying to use movie magic to write its screenplay, thought that was a great example of chaos!!
Another friend in this group had written about intellectual and pseudo intellectual stuff, being a thalivars fan (and having seen every single movie from mannan till sivaji and hopefully kuselan too, on the first day), it is vasishtar vayal brahma rishi when i say that Dashavataram is a good movie.
When one goes to a rich buffet it is not neccessary to eat every single item there, you eat what you like? or rather when you go to a gold mine , the one who uses a shovel to dig will get the shovels quanity of gold, the one who uses a spoon will get the spoons quanityt and one who uses the nail will get the nails quanity of gold.
oh....padam pakkamaye Dasavaratham and kamala appadi hard criticism of Dasavatharam, I thought you are writing after seeing the movie. ungalukke koncham overa illa?
Yes. Thats why i was wondering why people didnt like this movie. In india entertainment = hero + (glamorous) heroine + 5 songs + 1 villain + 5 fights (hero winning over 100 people single handed)..typical formula. But this is definitely unique movie which has never been attempted in Indian cinema. Whether Kamal really had chaos theory in mind or not, the story and script is good and above all one of the movie which makes you think even after you leave the theater.
Everyone has his/her own interpretation of the movie and thats the success of Kamal's script. This is exactly what Kalki did in PS. left the readers to think and derive their own conclusions. I think Kamal should be given due credit for this attempt.
A simple philosophy well knitted - every action of ours, knowingly or unknowingly, affects some one, whom we might never know. Thats why our culture says - always think good, do good and be good.
Someone said (in this group or outside, I am not sure) - Kamal is becoming a theist and this movie is a reflection of his self search, like Kannadasan et al :)
ithu enna vamba pochu..As I said earlier, I rarely watch movies, and I am a bit choosy. If I like a movie, atleast so far, it will be a real good movie with good reception from various quarters. May be, now I am proved wrong.
promote panni enakku enna aga poguthu...If someone tells you that PS is a crap and its not at all a good historical novel (actually Prabanchan said so), how most of this group members will feel. Thats the same feeling I had when people said this movie is not good. PS-la illatha ottaya....We have discussed enough of it. When we can accpet that PS is a masterpeice, with all its faults, why not this movie is my question? Ofcourse like and dislike is individual taste, I dont question that...but even if a group says that PS is not a good novel, the truth is something else. Thats what I tried to project when I replied.
Satish, What made your emails look like 'promos' atleast to me, was that it seemed to think highly of kamal than the movie, unlike Muthu or some others who pointed out obvous flaws in his approach even though they liked the movie. Kamal is not some pathetic dude in need of credit he has made his millions and will survive regardless of whether peopel like his movie or not.
What you said on PS, what brought us together is our love for PS and its author with all its ottais. So whether we critque or not we like someting about Kalki that is all. Perhaps a kamal rasigar mandram would feel same about his work but unfortunately we are not that.
Lastly if you comment on movies you watch being 'good' that is purely a personal thing. My taste appeals to friends and people I know that is all,need not be to all.
Anyway nothing personal on my side. Sorry if your feelings were hurt in any way.
Did you ever read all my mails? In the very first few mails I did say what are all the things that was not good in that movie. Almost in similar lines with others.....but I am questioning my communications skills now....am i not clear in what I am conveying...or is it that you reply to mails without reading (like commenting on the movie without watching :) ) just kidding..
Satish, I regard this as a classic case of an email debate..not just me rarely people read every word and syllable we write, it is usually the subject predominantly that sticks in people's minds.
I may not have read your first post, my comments predominantly have been on Kamal, much less on the movie since I did not see it. If I remember right one other person said so too, yours have been on the lines of Kamal not getting credit, this that (more on the person, less on the movie). Perhaps that is really why I ended up talking more to you, and less to others!!
Regardless it is always a good idea for all of us to keep revisiting our communication skills.
If I say/write something without listening/reading what others say...is it called a debate??? As far as i know debate should take into consideration what others say :)
we have beautiful words in our land - vadham - prathivadham....without vadham there is no prathivadham...
Again, nothing serious..just like that...trying to correct myself if my understandings are wrong....please dont take me wrong..
The movie is alright, with a right masala of action, comedy, romance and visual effects. The film and Kamal may get national awards, if political conditions are favourable in future.
There are more dialogues supporting theism than atheism; it is really funny that some went to court to stop release of the movie without even seeing it. This is nothing new, as all those who oppose supposedly controversial books, films or articles never get acquainted with the originals. The whole scene was dignified and impressive, with majority of the local population observing a pained silence during the last procession to immersion (except a couple of stray incidents).
My cribbing is about the title; Dasavataram has a definite connotation and meaning and it must not be indiscriminately used to denote anything adding up to ten. Of course it is anyone's guess what will be the reaction if movies are named after holy symbols of other religions.
A yet to be made film starring Napolean is named as "Pallkondapuram". The author Mr. Padmanabhan, who got the Sahitya Academy award in 1970 for the novel "Pallikondapuram" has objected to the use of the novel's title for the film and has sent a legal notice.
What will be our stand if a movie on Veerappan's exploits is named "Ponniyin Selvan", the hero of 1500 members of this august group? Veerappan has also drank Kaveri water.
> > What will be our stand if a movie on Veerappan's exploits is named > "Ponniyin Selvan", the hero of 1500 members of this august group? > Veerappan has also drank Kaveri water. > > Sampath >
Please note that there is atleast a connection to the count when Kamal titled it Dasavatharam. Also I did not find anything derogatory in terming it so. On the contrary I feel that your above example is a little far fetched. Definitely Veerappan cannot be termed Ponniyin Selvan and you know this. So there "will" be heartburns definitely.
On the contrary, rather than worrying about the title being Dasavatharam (of course it was not in a derogatory sense), if one is interested in the proper representation of the religious symbols, I feel that we need to take up the case of the Comedians making fun of the "thiruneeru" and "thiruman" and any other such religious symbols. I see that these are used in a more derogatory sense in movies than being titled Dasavatharam.
So my humble opinion is let us not lose the focus on real problems, by looking at something that, in reality, is not a problem at all, considering the derogatory remarks,
I disagree - this is worse than using "Ponniyin selvan" for Veerappan. In that case, it would have been just inappropriate, but here, it is wrong and erodes the historic meaning we attach to words.
"avatharam" cannot apply to anybody. Literally, it may mean "reincarnation", but the term per our religion/mythology has applied only to divine incarnations, which happen for a exalted purpose.. for ordinary mortals, it is just punarjanmam :)
Like many other words, the word "avatar" has been hijacked into English and used in other contexts.. Airbender, Second Life avatars..
But Kamal should have known better.. Fletcher an avatar? ugh..
In addition, he has created confusion in kids - my 5-yr old daughter is wondering why she cannot see the movie if its about Dasavatharam : ((
Okay, let me agree with you on your disagreement. But why are you silent about the more derogatory comments on our direct marks like Thiruneeru and Thiruman? Dont you think that they are more derogatory and that, in a literal sense you dont find anything derogatory in using the word avataram
Also as you rightly pointed out, as long as we do not do anything to get rid of the "englishized" usage of avatar, why should we be making a mountain out of a mole hill here?
I am really sorry, if my comment looks like rubbing on the wrong side. But my intention is to say that there are much more serious defamations going on and we are not protesting it, then why only this?
Hope you get my point and sorry if my words have hurt you.
Rahul, if anyone ha an opinion there will be counter opinion. It is wholly unfair to dub counter opinions as kutram kandu...whatever . I must confess also that I have noticed grouping of people - probably members who have known one another as friends and one lines up supporting anoother, one person even took offence and left a while ago. If we connot hav counter opinions this is only a news group not a healthy discussion board and it may very well be so no harm. But to allow only some people to have opinions and others to read is imbalanced. that is all.