) Gandhi's freedom struggle: if you really see the methods of operation of > gandhi you would be puzzled that he had acted once in a decade. His major > mass movements are in 1920, 1930 and 1942. If you see in between years, you > would notice that Gandhi would have gone on pause mode. T
Hi muruganandam. a wonderful analysis of gandhi's action. gandhi's methods were new and being tested in the field for the first time. even congress men did not trust their efficacy all the time.
yes gandhi alaway acted in one mass movement once a decade. it was to gather strenght and push the british out in one go. he failed twice.
infact i read a very good book on the political impact of the salt march. the writer accuses the salt march of being a failure for gandhi had to go to the vice regal house and plead for the release of millions arrested. also he says politically the energy spent on the salt march put the entire freedm movement on hold for 10 extra years.
with world war two gandhi realised it was time for a final trust.
gandhi always played on the concience of the britishman. when the british told their own people that the fight against nazis was for freedom the same principles applied to the indian scenario too.
Hi Muruganandams second book is on " gandhiyai suttapin..." covering the trial of godse.
incidentally his first book soon to be released is on " feroze gandhi"
did you know gandhi's grand children in a show of forgival visited gopal godse in pune after his release. however they found a rather unrepentant gopal.
oh ...now are we applauding ghodse :-) Again, gandhi's family members may have actually hated him... i dont blame them either, what did he do to his family... But.... only his family have the right to comment about that, outside of them it would be unethical to talk on his personal life... We are allower to talk about Mahatma Gandhi, we talk about an unrepentant Ghodse... let me ask one thing to many people who believe in God here, is it easy to get a 'anthima smrithi' ? Hey Ram or Rama Rama... how many people die with that name on their lips ? Just a thought on why he was a mahatma.
believe in God here, is it easy to get a 'anthima smrithi' ? Hey Ram or Rama Rama... how many people die with that name on their lips ?
Hi,
views differ - mine certainly did - after i read freedom at midnight..but it was mainly due to mahatma's role post independance - please read the book and his feat of stopping the violence in bengal. its first point view of Lord Mountbatten...he talks of not having enough neutral corps to ensure peace in the three vital spots - lahore, amritsar and bengal. so he sends half his troops to lahore and the other half to amritsar...not having enough to send to bengal he sends his one man army - requests mahatma to go to bengal...
also on your para above, check below post....so near an event and so much controversy....and above all makes me wonder at cholas...1000 years ago...they left near perfect clues to their deeds...just that we dont hvnt studied them enough yet.
Godse shot Gandhi three times. Pitaji heard Gandhi utter the words, "Hai ram [Oh God] ... Hai ram ... Hai Ram" as he hit the ground.
Instead of attacking Godse, Pitaji, along with Gandhi's nieces Manu and Abha, picked up Gandhi's body and rushed him to nearby Birla house. Pitaji carried Gandhi by the head.
TIME: But surely it takes more than good publicity to create a Gandhi? Godse: There is another thing. Generally in the Indian masses, people are attracted toward saintism. Gandhi was shrewd to use his saintdom for politics. After his death the government used him. The government knew that he was an enemy of Hindus, but they wanted to show that he was a staunch Hindu. So the first act they did was to put "Hey Ram" into Gandhi's dead mouth.
TIME: You mean that he did not say "Hey Ram" as he died? Godse: No, he did not say it. You see, it was an automatic pistol. It had a magazine for nine bullets but there were actually seven at that time. And once you pull the trigger, within a second, all the seven bullets had passed. When these bullets pass through crucial points like the heart, consciousness is finished. You have no strength.
When Nathuram saw Gandhi was coming, he took out the pistol and folded his hands with the pistol inside it. There was one girl very close to Gandhi. He feared that he would hurt the girl. So he went forward and with his left hand pushed her aside and shot. It happened within one second. You see, there was a film and some Kingsley fellow had acted as Gandhi. Someone asked me whether Gandhi said, "Hey Ram." I said Kingsley did say it. But Gandhi did not. Because that was not a drama.
The next moment I fired at Gandhi. Gandhi was very weak, there was a feeble sound like 'aah' from him and he fell down.
Those who were close to me saw the weapon in my hand. They rushed away from the spot. Gandhi had fallen to the ground, I was standing and the crowd had formed a ring around us.
hi Venu what happened to you? who was applauding godse. it was a piece of trivia told to vijaykumar who mentioned godse's trial. another info is gandhi's grandson and gopal godse appeared on the same t.v show? when gopal godse tripped gadhi's grands on held him. it turned out to be a photographer's delight. venketesh
> Again, gandhi's family members may have actually hated him... i dont blame them either, what did he do to his family... > But.... only his family have the right to comment about that, outside of them it would be unethical to talk on his personal life... > We are allower to talk about Mahatma Gandhi, we talk about an unrepentant Ghodse... let me ask one thing to many people who believe in God here, is it easy to get a 'anthima smrithi' ? Hey Ram or Rama Rama... how many people die with that name on their lips ? Just a thought on why he was a mahatma. > > > ----- Original Message ----
> please be specific, as these surnames could be confusing. > > venketesh
hi venkat,
thats why i put in the links as well...these are def not my views, nor do i stand for any of them - these are interesting / differing view points. i am no authority in this and am just presenting them as is....
now we need to have a std disclaimer for the group as well....vj
not at all you had given a sequence of articles and suddenly an interview with godse cropped up.
a person following your text might have thought that it was nathuram. nathuram never gave interviews and even his testimony was banned. did you know this gopal godse's son was married to savarkar's daughter. venketesh
I read somwehere that Godse even though had very good respects for Gandhi, had to take a harsh decison as Gandhi was about to agree for cessation of Indian hyderabad also to pakistan.
In the interest of nation in the larger perspectice that harsh, tough decsion of assasination took place
Gopal Godse claims nathuram brought his hands together in respect for what gandhi had done to the nation. but then it was such a turmoil there at the spot of the asasination. there are so many views onto what actually hppened. one group claiming no last words were uttered and one group claiming a bihari gardner actually chased nathuram and pinned him down to the ground. even the police fir is a utterly chaotic document. kalyanam a south indian P.A of gandhi wrote plenty on the last day but another group claims kalyanam was not even nearby. one question remained. why was gandhi not taken to a hospital when he was declared dead only much later. also another impotant event that took place that day was margret burke white the lay who took all those best last month photos of gandhi tried to photograph the freshly dead gandhi, but feroze gandhi who was in delhi shooed her away. so we dont have any pictures. nathuram fiercely said he had nothing to do with savarkar another co acused and savarkar was acquitted. but 40 years later " the Hindu" cme into possesion of letters and documents mentioning both had been very close. its a very interesting period in history. once again very few deatails both clouded by hindu mahasabha or nationalistic attitudes.
Godse is a staunch follower of gandhi, and infact participated in freedom struggle inspired by gandhi..
And he is a staunch brahmin.. and he is not a extremist freedom fighter too..
HIs decisions are rational, and properly reasoned out. THere is a website which had put all his arguments, that he proposed during the trial..
Personally, i feel, gandhi as a politician had done lot of long lasting harm to our psychos and nation.. HIs double standards in terms of hindu muslim riots is still, a blot in our history..
I think, all these mails written were to highlight only one aspect, dont look at things only in one sided, please see the other side as well. YOu have been seeing only the good of British and the ills of Indians and thats why you call this mail as a controversy.
During my college days, I got an oppurtunity to participate in an eloqution competion held in Wardha, conducted by the Gandhi seva trust. Topic was about Gandhi. Thats the first time I got an oppurtunity to read about Gandhi, and ofcourse Freedom at Midnight was my reference. I read that book for almost two weeks, weeping as I read through the pages. I got so attached to Gandhi that my friends started teasing me 'pseudo Gandhi', meaning I am making a drama claiming myself a fan of Gandhi.
Later, when i happened to see Kamal's Hey Ram, I got a new dimension about Gandhi. Though it was shocking, on further analysis, reading something about why Godse killed Gandhi, I started realising the other side of the coin.
With the information I have, I respect Gandhi for his greatness, the ahimsa and sathyagraha, the will power he showed, the dedication in getting India's freedom etc, but when it comes to Hindu-Muslim unity and Gandhi's approach towards it, I do have a bitter taste about him.
These are facts and we should accept it as it is. Claiming it as controversy or contradiction is hypocrasy, because facts are facts.
Gandhi as a freedom fighter - a national leader for the freedom movement was the greatest we can ever imagine. Gandhi as a personal man - i reserve my comments, i feel unethical to comment on that. What his sons say are their views. Gandhi as a spiritual (not religious) - he was highly evolved, selfish may be, but very highly evolved. Gandhi as a politician or cross religion patron - he was not convincing, he was trying to force the hindu dharma from Gita to the moslem world, it would not work.
Ghodse does not say - I know Gandhi said ahh...i heard him loud n clear. Hey Ram or Rama Rama etc... how the hell did it come from ? Anti Gandhians can always support Ghodse for his words. Come what may, what Ghodse thought as a reason is different, but he IS a murderer and a murderer of the nations greatest freedom fighter. There ends the story. Hey Ram or Rama or Ram Ram what ever be it... it has the sound of Rama in many versions... in a weak man's tome ghodse standing 1 meter away and his mind ringing on murder the odds of him hearing rama in a feeble tone can be sounding as aah.
Gandhi was against hindu's ? I would object to that, Gandhi's biggest mistake was trying to provincialize hindu model of life everywhere, it wont work. Only a true hindu can decipher and write about the bagavat gita. There are aethists, there are non hindu's. There is nothing wrong in being either, its one's choice, to try to bridge-in was the difficult thing, for a evolved person. Again, I am not saying Gandhi is a saint. There were great saints such as Sai Baba or Shiridi or Kabir who tried this unity - did it work ? It wont atleast for the long haul. It never has, but that does not mean hindu and moslem and christians cannot co exsist. We all can and we all will.
I dont think I can believe the one man version of 'ahh' vs many versions of Rama (hey ram, rama, ram ram etc). In today's world, for a human, unless Rama or Muruga owes him money, its difficult to produce that name at the very end.
gandhis last moments were described by the people standing closest to him in the most differing ways. not assumptions based on godse's version. what i am saying is based on a full scale research for a set of books we are planning on gandhi. we are having a book on the salt march by a eminent writer who re enacted the entire march at the age of 70. muruganandam ofcourse has started his work on the godse trial. we hope the book will be explanatory to many who dont know much about those two three years. I think we will do a book on these private life aspects too. I dont think you cannot divorce a public and private life of a person who is the father of a nation.
on gandhi's personal life, he himself tried to be an open book and beleived that "caesars wife should be above suspicion" but this dark secret of him, his obsession with a married woman who he be wanted to be the guiding spirit of the freedom movement. eople have a right to know and right to discuss. you just cant wish it away. venketesh
Hi venu i think its just not worth the time to to read your long mails with high sounding words fixed opinions. it tests one's patience. others have dropped out of trying to converse with you and so shall i. you certainly are not a man of few words and have a few pages to write on everything and anything. your condescending attitude towards everything else borders on funny. its a new experience to counter such a person in this group. venketesh
If Gandhi and Nehru had not insisted much, India would have been a HINDU country (like Pak becoming muslim country)instead of being secular as now which have lead to minority appeasement for vote banks even after 60 years of independence.
No wonder conversion of hindus to muslim had been rampant in Pak since independence whereas vice versa do not happen in india.
Bye M.A.Eswaran
>Personally, i feel, gandhi as a politician had done >lot of long >lasting harm to our psychos and nation.. HIs double standards in >terms of hindu muslim riots is still, a blot in our >history..