Dear All, First of all very sorry for my late reply. Since I was continuously out of station I couldn't reply in time.
I thank Mr.Udhankar for introducing me to this group. He asked me to discuss about the formation of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Nangavaram (Great Nicobar) and Adam's bridge to this group.
Let me come to the latter issue first - Adam's bridge. After a short discussion with Udhankar I went through the details about the Adam's bridge (Ram Sethu). I found an article by Ms.Vandana published in People's Democracy which addresses all our doubts. Then I decided that it'll be worthy to give the article as such here. Some of you may not agree with the political/ideological criticism mentioned in that article but apart from that I feel the scientific evidence cited in it is very fair and correct. please go through the following article.
*Ram Sethu And Sethusamudram Project*
*Vandana*
DUSTED out of the attic, 144 year old project first envisaged by Commander A D Taylor of the Indian Marine in 1860, Sethusamudram Ship canal project (SSCP) has evoked mixed reaction. Seen as an opportunity for development by attracting cargo vessels to ports in the Eastern Coast, particularly Tuticorin port, the project is viewed by some as long over due. Others citing various environmental issues as well as that the project would become uneconomical due to large scale sedimentation witnessed in this region of ocean consider it as uneconomical. In the midst of the debate a new twist has been smuggled in by the BJP and the Sangh Parivar to communalise the issue. Alleging that the move for dismantling of the Ram Setu, a natural shoals in the region called Adams Bridge, 'is the conspiracy of Congress, the Left and Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam', Mr Ashok Singal, president of VHP issued a threat of agitations by VHP and BJP if the project is not stopped forth with.
In fact the project was claimed to be the handy work of almost all the parties in TN. AIADMKof Ms J Jayalalitha, MDMK of Shri V Gopalasamy, DMK of Shri M Karunanidhi each claimed credit for bringing the project to TN and ushering in development. Until recently even BJP too was in the bandwagon saying that it was during the last NDA regime that the project was given a go ahead.
Pegged at about Rs.2,250 crores cost, the Sethusamudram Ship Canal Project (SSCP) aims at dredging the shallow ocean and crating an artificial canal that could provide passage to draft ships and cargo containers. SSCP will link the Gulf of Mannar and Palk Bay in the southeastern coast of India. The total length of SSCP would be about 260 km, covering Palk Bay, Adam's bridge and Gulf of Mannar regions. The project envisages dredging a width of 300 meters of this stretch to provide a continuous navigable route cut through Adam's Bridge, a natural chain of shoals to avoid circumnavigating Sri Lanka. The canal will have an average depth of 12 metres enabling 10,000 to 12,000 GRT (gross registered ton) vessels to pass through. At present for the ships to port at Tuticorin, they have to go around Sri Lanka cruising additional 360 miles and wasting about 36 hrs.
Right from the day the project was inaugurated it has witnessed hostility from various quarters. Opposition ranged from much anticipated 'no development' environmentalists, inevitable unhealthy political opposition for the sake of stealing the thunder out of the ruling party and dispassionate scientific scepticism that cautioned about the potential mass sedimentation in the region and fragile eco-system in the region. While it is important to address the genuine concerns and find a balanced development path that meets the need of short term immediate needs of the people of the locality as well as long term sustainability, frivolous opposition is injurious to development and rational public debates on developmental policy.
BJP and the Sangh parivar have once again come off its true colours. The aim is not to engage in rational debate on policy. The threat of agitation, sans stoppage of the SSCP, is not based on rational scientific studies or concerns arising out of it. Rather, the opposition stems from communal agenda, 'the SSCP would disturb and destroy the bridge built by Lord Ram, mythical Ram Sethu of Ramayana' being the sole issue.
To buttress their ludicrous claim they have once again resurrected false and forged story circulated by the Sangh Parivar earlier. Sangh Parivar affiliated news services stated in 1992 that US agency's space borne cameras had discovered the remains of the mythical bridge built by Rama across the Palk Strait. Further it is asserted that the NASA had concluded that the bridge to be man-made from the 'bridge´s unique curvature and composition by age'. Arguing that the legends as well as archaeological studies reveal that the first signs of human inhabitants in Sri Lanka date back to the primitive age, about 1,750,000 years ago and the bridge´s age is also almost equivalent. As Rama's rein was to have taken place during tredha yuga (more than 1,700,000 years ago) and the alleged age of the 'bridge' match. The SSCP would disturb this 'historical' and 'holy' structure. This in essence is the claim of Sangh Parivar.
Uncritically citing this news that appeared in the Internet sites sympathetic to Sangh Parivar, PTI had reported the same. As the news was catchy, the media uncritically lapped it. Soon however the media woke-up to the fraud when the matter was verified with NASA. Writing in Hindustan Times on October 17, 2002, its Washington correspondent S Rajagopalan wrote that 'NASA poured cold water on the claims' citing NASA official Mark Hess categorically stated that 'Remote sensing images or photographs from orbit cannot provide direct information about the origin or age of a chain of islands, and certainly cannot determine whether humans were involved in producing any of the patterns seen'. NASA distanced itself from the story and stated that it made no claims whatsoever regarding the age or nature of the shoals in the region.
One wonders why Sangh Parivar had to take recourse to NASA's images wh
Infrastructure plays a very important role in the economic progress of the nation. No country can think of economic progress & development without the development of efficient infrastructure. Especially in age of globalisation where international goods & commodities are to be transported from one country to the other, efficient infrastructure is the key to the success.
Sometimes in order to win some you need to loose some, even it were the bridge constructed by rama, cant it make way for growth - for heavens sake there are a million others sites / temples which could do with all this help ( if they could just get some of these high flying politicians to go down and sweep all the goat shit and bat droppings from the dehilapidated madapams, rama would be better served). I quote Singapore's Minster mentor mr Lee in his interview on channel newsasia during 2006 - " politics is not about populism, politics is about governance".
Shipping tonnage handled by Major Indian Ports in 2002 is 62,24000 (Gross Registered Tonnage) while the world average by major ports is 18,65,04,700. Conservative estimates state that India has about 300,000 seamen which puts her only behind the Philippines, China and Japan. But despite this most indian business suffer from short sightedness of our beaurocarzy -
The approx cost of transhipping containers for major ports in the region compared to say chennai is below
Singapore ( sgd 115+115) Colombo Usd 92 Port Kelang Usd 72 Chennai Usd 38!!!
Yet, chennai as a t/s hub is still a distant dream - this despite privatisation - proves that its not just cost, efficeincy of operations etc that drive the business - but infrastructure and fore thought...while our governments thought of building ports to tackle current demand ( which due to red tape led the the port projects getting delayed by so long) that by the time they came online the capacity was already over stretched. Whereas the governments of srilanka, singapore and malaysia thought ahead and built for growth. Take below gross stats and summarise for yourself.
PSA Singapore has 47 container berths and 134 quay cranes at its four terminals: Brani Terminal, Keppel Terminal, Tanjong Pagar Terminal and Pasir Panjang Terminal. Annual capacity to 32 million TEUs.
Malaysia,Port klang North port - three terminals, 10 berths, 24 gantry cranes, 4.6 mill teus West port - three terminals, 9 berths, 24 gantry cranes, 6 mill teus
Compare to above chennai was ranked 99th in 2005 5 berths, 7 quay cranes, 829,307 TEUs in 2006 - one terminal ( second terminal has just been awared to PSA ) and ennore terminal proposal has still not taken off
Rank Port Country TEUs(000s)[1] +/- from 2004 % change from 2004
1 Singapore Singapore 23,192 1,863 8.73 2 Hong Kong People's Republic of India 22,427 443 2.02 3 Shanghai People's Republic of China 18,084 3,527 24.23 4 Shenzhen People's Republic of China 16,197 2,582 18.96 5 Busan South Korea 11,843 413 3.61 6 Kaohsiung Taiwan (Republic of China) 9,471 0 0.00 7 Rotterdam Netherlands 9,287 1,006 12.15 8 Hamburg Germany 8,088 1,085 15.49 9 Dubai United Arab Emirates 7,619 1,190 18.51 10 Los Angeles United States of America 7,485 164 2.24
To lighten up
The worlds largest ship- It the Eiffel tower was laid on its side it could easily be carried on board
It is worth discussing if we have anything more concrete on this. While discussing also we ensure harmoney among group members and national interity is our priority along with Desa Bakthi..
The latest is ASI has modified certain mentions to mytholigical data in its affadavit to SC... Madam Soniayji did intervene in helping finalising the Affidavit.
Now the government has withdrawn both the affidavits and the hearing is postponed to Jan 1st week. Till then, hopefully, the palam is safe.
I have given below excerpts from a statement released by Sri Sri Ravishankar yesterday. It is relevant for our group, as it relates to history.
Sampath
Sri Sri Ravishankar denounces Centre's affidavit on Ram Sethu Bangalore, Sep 13: Renowned spiritual leader and founder of the Art of Living Foundation Sri Sri Ravi Shankar today denounced the Centre's affidavit before the Supreme Court on the Ram Sethu issue stating that there was no historical evidence to establish existence of Sri Ram.
In a statement issued from Germany, Sri Sri Ravishankar said that ''Ramayana and Mahabharata are called Itihasas. Itihas means it happened. This means that Sri Ram did exist as recorded in the Ramayana. The ancient seers had made clear distinction between Puranas and Itihasas. Puranas are mythological, symbolic stories and Itihasas are that which actually happened''.
He said one could not dismiss Sri Ram as a mythological character just because a lot of miracles were reported in his life and there are no scientific evidences to prove them. ''There were unproven miracles in the lives of the religious figures of other faiths'' he said adding ''if we dismiss Sri Ram as fictitious character, then we have to dismiss all the miracles in the lives of Jesus, Moses and Mohammed as myths'' he added.
If we need scienetic evidence, then how to prove that
1)Jesus died on Friday and came back alive on Sunday
2)Jesus was born to Virgin Mary
3)Various miracles shown as happened in "Quran"
Probabily if the govt touches such emotional issues with other religions, it will be dubbed as the govt playing with minority's sentiments and rights and if the govt does it with "Hinduism" it will be portrayed as "secular" govt
Mr.Sampath not allowed to me discuss what was our plan on adams bridge 37 km - 500 width and 50 meters depth. when people start directly comment, witho out our objectives of finding pn archealogical studies on the particular sites with the help of there own machineries.
Now under the court directions ,ASi and other 3rd parties going to do the same.
My intrest was that, missing land our sangam's period. I respect our ancestors says
please click for entire studies witjhout any report on archealogical studies from the sethu project
funny of the government and our great scholors are that they never pointed out and applied for archealogical studies on particular area with the culture department.
according to the public government should do every thing. according to the government public should pointing out the scenorio
I agree it is a golden opportunity to undertake a study when dredging is done, costly equipment is made available, divers are provided, and you have chance to collect samples of dredged material. If you remember, my objection was the reference email from Dr. N. Ganesan you had appended to your message (18947). If that message is the reference for study, then the study needs to be questioned. If you had mentioned about your project, without quoting the message, I would not have responded.
Lot of water has flowed since then; I hope your programme proceeds as per schedule and yields valuable data. The Sethu is a political dynamite and delhi bosses will exert great pressure to get the answers they want.
Both in case of Rama Sethu and Ayodhya, the ASI has not followed true scientific spirit.
Fortunately, our forum is free from politics and contentious issues. This is not the right place to discuss such issues.
As much as I trust and believe in Rama and Ramayana, I do not believe in the Ramar palam proclaimed as now the original. I believe the real Lanka during the Ravana time is under water. This may sound blasphemous to many who hear, but I believe the currentl Lanka was also a part of the Bharatha Maha kandam as to thousands of centuries ago. The lanka taked by Ramayana is a harcode island, far off from the tip of southern India.
Why I believe so...
Lanka, Ravana's land, viewable only by Sampati from the mountain top. Even angada who can jump 2000 yojanas would not be able to reach the island and it was possible only by Maruthi who could do atleast 8000 yojanas in one leap. Going by this standard alone, either the land mass between the ends where the monkey's stood and Lanka is totally not visible. I am sure people who have visited Danush kodi will feel other wise on the view part.
A cue to be taken from Thirupugazh, in a song about Kathir Kamam(which belonged to a part of the Skanda territory hence the great temples of Kandi and Kathir kamam). Uduka thugil vendum is a brilliant song about Kathirkamam. The 2nd half of verses say, Kudakku sila thuthar theduga.. (go to the southern most tip until to find Her) was the command from Sugreeva, hence start forth Hanuman Angada , Jambhavan etc, Hanuman ends up finding her and burning lanka... while his return journey, he takes a break at Manikka gangai and seeks the Blessing of the Lord who stands there in a formless entity (documented in Kathirkamam too) and the Lord of all battles between G vs E to prepare for the great War.
After his tail was on fire and the lankan army after him, he could not have rested inside Lanka to do this bath and prayer. Defies logic.
Going back into Ramayana: Ravana possesed the moola bala sainya which was the greatest demon army ever, housed under his kingdom. That was not going to be yoked until Ravana cannot handle the opponent. That army , was in center of the universe under the core of our earth, which I do not believe to be current Lanka.
The only thing I can support to protect the 'bridge' is to prevent the natural structure of the place.
I can be termed a neutral secularist though I am a very devout hindu.
BUT whether rama built the bridge or not, its enshrined in the hearts of millions. lets not question the beleifs of the other religions EXCEPT when it involves taxpayers money. does the govt check up on the history of mohammed the prophet before subsidising the haj trip for lakhs of people? venketesh
we are trying to give archealogical evidence of our anicent litreatures on kapaadapuram,pakruliaru and kadal konda thennadu of pandya kingdom.
all ready on coastal from alagarkulam to musiri plenty of evidents are aviliable on archealogical studies.
i am allready in touch with R.Madivanan,Micheldonino,Ponnambalm raghupathy ,velu pillai,Prof.Nachimuthu,Mr.Adiyaman marine archealogy tanjore university,Silatripathy NIOT Goa ,Alok tripathi cheif of Indian marine archealogy,Mr.santhana gopalan IAs, R.Balakrishnan IAS and other scholors who are trying on archealogical evidence for our our draviadan civilization .
As a part of kalingatamil relations since pandiyan period with karvela (ist century BC),we from orissa trying our level best to find evidence not only from tamilnadu but also with srilankan friends and scholors on kadal konda thennadu.
Tere are two questions to point a. What really is Adam's bridge or Sethu samuthram. b. Existance of Rama (as churned up and cleverly subsided by the Congress itself).
Question a, may be easy to prove, even by pointers in Hindu epics, forget delving into archealogy.
Question b, is definitely and clearly NOT related to question a. The truthful answer to question B in today's world is better hidden than discovered. Once the real discovery starts, it can possibly hint on confusing the state of minds who are not geared to understand the reality of Ram. One should start with the ancestors of Rama and the rules and conquers and mairrages and clans of them. Raghuvansha ruled for most of europe to end of asia. So where was Rama born ? Who are we ? What do u mean by India ? I would be interested in seeing where all we look for answers, after all one should look only where one lost their keys... That is not in Sethu project...
This maps to the cluster of warring lords and the other thread of 'One country' so called Bharat.
Congress in its usual ignorance stirred a hornet's nest not knowing the impact. Let the war begin and let the Lord begin his rule :-)
Nice one. Bala sir, ric, if your study fails to turn up material evidence ..what would the government do, does it man the bridge was never built, rama never existed. this is where the government missed the wood for the trees....the question today is adams bridge built by rama...so the correct line of thought is to check if this is a man made structure or not. end of discussions, unfortunately this has got mixed up due to a diahorea of words and constipation of ideas at the highest levels.
For the sake of growth, for economic prosperity of the country...for a larger good, small sacrifices need to be made. after all we are talking of a structure that is submerged and in a location where hardly anyone can visit .....for all the people shouting rama namam from their roof tops, why dont you first start going to temples regularly, reading religious texts, learn to recite hymns....first understand what is turely hindusim and if in deed you want to protect your heritage, go to a nearby temple and clean the bat dropping and goat shit...give some oil to light the lamp etc etc. let your children learn to respect elders and our tradition .... hinduism will be better served.
Mail posted By Our Dr.T.satyamurthy sir In Temple cleaners group cut copy paste for our friends
Ramar Sethu and ASI
I had the opportunity to be an Archaeologist in Archaeological Survey of India since 1970, and recently retired and would like to bring out the following facts about Ramar Sethu Issue. To my knowledge no archaeological expedition of any type either on Shore or off shore was conducted to document the facts about the Ramar Sethu Bridge. Neither there is any official publication on the type of Remains there.
I was shocked to see the Affidavit filed by ASI in the Apex Court. It was based on secondary resources from some other Agency. None of Archaeologists, especially my old colleagues could have gone to that level to file a casual Affidavit in the highest court of the country. To my solace, now it is learnt that the officials involved both are not Archaeologists but Administrative Officers. One is an Assistant Director and another is Director Administration. The latter is from Indian Revenue Service and entered the Survey on Deputation few months back and bypassed the Senior Archaeologists of ASI and misinformed the Apex Court. The decline of the standard of ASI is not a sudden one, but for the past two decades Archaeologist is not allowed to head it. Due to some flaw in the Central Recruitment Rules amended during 1980s, no Archaeologist is made eligible to be the Director General and IAS personnel lead it one by one with out even basic knowledge on History or Archaeology.
They represent the Nation in many International Bodies like UNESCO on Archaeological matters and misrepresent the facts many times. This time due to sensitivity of the Subject they were trapped in the Apex Court. No Governement including BJP ever attempted to post a technical DGA. We hope atleast now the Government will wake up to restore the lost glory of the Survey.