I happened to read a small book in Tamizh "Sriraman Ceylon-ku Chellavillai"
This is a book from the "Secular People" and it talks about so many things.
In that it quotes many people who have arrived at the conclusion that Lord Ram didnt go to Ceylon and the Srilanka / Kishkindha mentioned in Ramayana are somewhere in Madhya Pradesh.
I do have a book written in Tamil which talks in detail about this. Let me find out the availability of English translation of the same. If I can get one I will send you a copy of the same. In the book the author has given a couple of references - People who have done some extensive research on this area. Will list that out in a couple of days. Lets see.
I also agree that Srilanka is far away from Ayodhya but what about the Ramanatha Swany Temple in Rameswaram where Lord Sri Rama performed a pooja. He worshipped Lord Siva there before even starting the construction of Bridge.
Hanuman was bit late in bringing the Shiva Linga so he made a ling out of the sand available in beach and performed the pooja. In the Ramanatha Swamy Temple @ Rameswaram there are two lingams. One is the Moolavar which lord Rama worshipped and also the Lingam which Hanuman had brought.
Do we have a Pre Historic Shiva temple in and around the place - Jabalpur? Any folk lore happening in that place? Need to discuss ...
There are lots of difference of opinion on this. Some history students feel that Rama was a hero, who took the Sama Veda or few Veda know how which was named as Janavi about Earth Science.. But a section of learned persons approched Rama so that he can kill Ravana. Ravana is a Dasavadhani, who is very strong in his mind and learning capacity learned and applied the Vedic theory in health. At that time Agathya was there who spread this Ayur Veda in South India which was also known as siddha Medicine or Alchemy.
But Ravana was born to a sage and a queen of South Indian King who ruled south east India.
A PhD thesis submited in 1951 at Kashmir University sataes that Ravana and Kubera are South Indians.
To my knowldge and other history students I wish to hear from our so caleed learned Pandits what Rama Did for the society, except fighting with Ravana.. Where as other Kings did so many things for the welfare I wish some one to establish the fact.
I Mahabharatha also it was a fight between two kingdoms. The Bhagavath Gita also mentioned in Zorathushtra as "Ahra Mazda" the lord of the SKY. This Zodiac is bigger than all and it is resposible for our births and the birth of Planets. This SKY is called as Bhishnu or VISHNU.
The Chunk is none other than the South Pole and Chakra is North Pole.
For the benifit of earning money and threatten the people that they should obey the stories were created in the name of God.
The taxes collected by temples which rulled the Villages were more than 200% per 3 months. There are many evidences for that in the form of inscriptions.
The God is the inner soul of all and if he go in to him he will find a different world which they call Swarga or Heaven or hell.
The Dhakshina Moorthy, the Bhairava etc., are the hidden names of Treating Blood disorders. this treament methods were told in story form.
The Sloga of Dhatathreya mentions about the parts of body , the veins, the bones etc.,
What Rama did for the society Or Whats the use of Ramayana and Mahabharatha to this society is a separate topic by itself.
In this thread We will stick to "Did Lord Rama go to Ceylon or not" What are the evidences for and against this. Kubera is south Indian is new to me. Thanks for the info.
There are lot of indicators in the Ramayana that Lanka was an island in the sea, not a lake. Sri Rama worships the lord of the ocean to help the oceans part and built a bridge. Hanuman sees Lanka as a 'shining jewel' amidst the ocean. Ravana kidnapped seetha and flew 'south' from where Sri Rama's ashrama was.Sri Rama also crosses scenic territory where Sabari lives which is remarkably similar to Kerala before reaching the tip of country and crossing into Lanka.
Yes Lanka was very far from Ayodhya but they travelled the distance in 13 years, not short span of time. They probably covered half and reached mid india and lived there before Ravana took Seetha.
It would be interesting to see how this other theory explains all the situations.
There are other parameters also, ishvaku empire ranged from persia corners to mongolia, how can the logistics work that way at that ea / generation.
when Skanda purana states that 300 lakh yojanas is the distance between earth and siva lokam, it is a 1000 yojana jump maximum for angadha and he could not clear the ocean.
Ravana's moola bala sainya (by physical description) alone can fill the entire landscape of current ceylon and spill over to kanya kumari :-) , so that is logically difficult to percieve.
Hanuman on his return after seeing Devi lands at Kathirgama to seek blessings of Lord Skanda as the war is certain and as the entire clan of deva's were bon as his kin, he needed the blessing of the General of Devas to go in to war.
If Katirgama is in ceylon then Hanuman's jump cannot be from one shore of lanka to other :) that would be going behind his own tail :)
There is more, the story of Ramayana in indonesia / sorrounding islands etc is more than what meets the eye and the idea of no land between lanka and antartica is a huge question.
That is the spot where one talks about missing places such as Lemuria / Veeramahendra puram... i personally believe, the final resting place of Ravana's lanka.
Can anyone tell what good the current govt. did for the people?
I bet no one can. So when we cant tell what the current govt. is doing for the welfare of the people, doesnt it sound weird to ask what good Rama did for the people? Sorry...I cant just control laughing... :)
Well, perhaps it comes from the age old belief of Rama Rajya being the ideal rule so what it really was like? We have reached incomparable extremes of corruption and nepotism so all ideals do seem funny anyway.
> > Hi, > > which Government ? > > You are telling the Central Government ? > > That is assessed and expressed by the peoples mandate two Weeks back.. > > Are you telling of the State Government ? > > Look at the Roads in Tamilnadu. Look at CTVs distribution. > Look at Flood relief. Look at the criticism of Opposition. > Look at the Government reactions. And compare this with Orissa man- > made calamities or Bihars natural calamities. And the relief made > available for people. > > And why this Government subject come now ? > > In a subject related to Lankan affairs dragging in any Government is > not at all correct.. > > and for criticising the government in general there are several views > and individual views do not count and may be this is not the place > too. > > ga >
Whichever govt you want to take. The topic started with the question, what good did rama did for the people. Sounded really crazy to me because when its difficult to find out the good done by the current govt how can one find what good a king did atleast 10000 years back. The date of Ramayana is still a question. People just give an arbitrary date as 5000 or 10000 years. But if you calculate the years according to the vedas/puranas Ramayana happened atleast 1,70,0000 years old and the question to find out how he ruled so many years back is .....what can I say.
Whatever you have listed is the basic duty of the govt. and cannot be termed as good for the people. And sorry again, I could not control laughing when I read your comment on color tv. is it a welfare measure? what good is it doing to the people? Ok sorry..lets not get into this rubbish now and lets stick to the point.
And this is not related to Lankan affairs. The thread is on Rama.
Dear Udanx, Wish I had more info for you, do know that the Jabalpur area is where 'Tripura' is supposed to be, [can't get much further back in time than that!] and was the area of the Kalachuris of Cedi, also near the area where Parasuram [a devout SAIVA I think, tho a V. Avatara] killed so many Kshatriyas. I'm off to India tomorrow so no time to research it now, got to pack. Kathie
1.Ramayana Lankapuri is not the present Srilanka.Lankapuri was located ina landmass offpresent coast of Kerala-Karnataka which was drowned during the great deluge, 2.Karnataka-Mysore and its surroundings are the places ruled by Valli/Sukreeva,
The above situation is similar to old Athi-Sangam Madurai in Kumari Kandam,which got submerged andits representation is the present Madurai in Tamilnadu.Eventhe present Madurai is not the Kadai-Sanga Madurai.This is located insouth east of current Maurai,which became insignificantdue to changes in theRiver Vaiagi down streamflow.
> I realised Dear Ravi that you have also highlighted the same > possibiliies of exploring the LANDS GONE UNDER THE SEA WATERS .... > Means you are postulating the REVERSE .. instead of confiining RAMA to > north of Vindhya, much BEYOND and EXPANDING his coverage by many > folds.. ! > > Birds eye view ? > Dear Sps
Lemuria / Veera mahendrapuram and Iravanan Ilangai, ellam same spot, is my humble opinion.
Rama's area of coverage was much wider than we can think, for I read some place that on his way from lanka, he landed 1/2 way at maduranthakam. Again, I am not able to recollect the book where I read but it makes a bit of sense to my theory that ilangai is definitely not the same spot.
Infact, I personally think Ilangai is closer to africa, where the cradle of life genrated.
There is a place in current day Sri Lanka called Seetha Eliya. This is the place they believe Seetha stayed (or was held captive) while she was in Lanka. I think there is a temple also there for Seetha. There was some controversy about Sinhala Buddhist organizations not wanting to promote that place for tourism, fearing that it will become a major tourist attraction and hence eventually interfering or dilute the buddhist beliefs or something like that.
I had been near that place to the hill station of Nuvera Eliaya but couldnt make it to Seetha Eliya due to lack of time.
There are also several other places in Sri Lanka associated with Ravana and Hanuman and Rama etc. My Sinhala friends have also told me that there is a place where the vegetation is different from the surrounding place and attribute it to Hanuman bringing the mountain and planting it there. I dont know know how far all this is scientifically tested.
Anyway, with such strong beliefs and places being revered for thousands of years, I think its pretty much in current day Sri Lanka that it all happened, although its possible that region was geographically different then.
There are such beliefs going very strong in ceylon. While the first incident may have happened at a separate place, the 'vision' could have gotten at a different location. It is normal that the spot where a vision is granted becomes celebrated as the location itself. Again, maduranthakam Rama temple is one such place. Rama / Seetha and Lakshmana are there without Hanuman. As Rama is said to have given the vision to Sage Vipandakar as Sri Karunakara (Rama). The place hence forth was called as Maduranthakam (prior to that it was Bagularanyam). Now we all know that Rama could not physically stop by due to the dead line of Bharata (instructing Hanuman to go ahead however) the temple here does not have the Siriya thiruvadi on spot.
The story of early 1st sankam Madurai being moved to current location is being sung in many folklore, the first being in kumari kandam.
I have also seen some of those spots mentioned in ceylon stated to be Iravana's asokavana or the holding space of Pushpaka vimanam. It does look eerie but fails to impress me as a spot where the real thing happened.
Neraya time aagum...ezutha I mean, its a long yet thin string of connectivities. Darwin's confused ideology to the Kishkinda kingdoms, as always it is some co-relational study.
It is my belief that the time lines given for Ramayana etc is messed up. While people say that Rama is a myth as they cannot construct grounded proof of his life, I would say.... saviya tholacha idathile thedama velichama irukira edathile thedina kidaikuma ?
Ravi, am a little confused...by vision i suppose you mean the vision Valmiki had to write the epic. Valmiki did not live a long time later, he co existed with the end of Rama's reign, atleast if we beleive that the twins were raised in his ashrama. So why would there be so much difference between the 'vision' and where the actual story happened?
The way Lanka is described in the ramayana clearly points to 1 a place separated from mainland by a reasonable expanse of ocean ocean 2 an island which is shaped like a jewel (the typical jewel shape is a tear drop) 3 There is some evidence that the bridge remains as of now could have coincided with supposed dates of the epic.http://www.indianexpress.com/oldstory.php?storyid=17736.
Lanka we must remember is not exactly a pro hindu or pro Rama country, for them to preserve the places relevant to us. Non indian versions of the Ramayana venerate Ravana in fact, not Rama.So how can we possibly draw any conclusions based on how it looks today? I am tempted to belive as Sandeep said that the location is same but perhaps geographically it was farther away than it is now. Is there any evidence strongly that indicates not?
Ravi, I understand..the point there is the misrepresentation of the word myth..myth is not a lie, myth is an allegory. If someone calls the Ramayana a myth we have to rethink taking offence, it only means they story s an allegory to certain things which are still deeply meaningful.
It is undoubtedly interesting to debate the. timelines and the many issues surrounding it. And am all for it if evidence does emerge strongly that the epic happened exactly as Valmiki wrote it. But unable to think that it might not exactly have happened that way is similar to thinking I cannot enjoy PS because obviously things and people did not happen that way during RRJ's reign, which is true. The lessons and respect we have for Ramayana should not be connected to whether or not it really happened, matter of fact it becomes much harder to digest certain parts of the epic if it did and assuming it was a story with timeless values is much easier.
Dear SPS: As folklore and legends spread from one area to another, there is a tendency for any local population to create associations to a very famous puruna.
Dear Malathi, I take your information on the location of Lanka. I was just throwing out a strange hypothesis. If Rama et. al. were in Dandakaranya for 13 years, it makes 'Sri Lanka' much more believable. Thank you for taking the time. Kathie ps I bought some 'Drupad' in Bangalore.
Dear Kathie welcome back, so good to see you again. Hope you had a good time in India. I was just wondering about sending you some music cds will write to you about that offline.BTW just curious what is 'Drupad'?