I heard that Ilayaraja composed all the five songs of a movie, forgot which one, in just 20 mins...and the movie was a super duper hit for the songs..
Today it takes almost a year for a music director to compose 5 songs, that too with all the latest gadgets...
And again coming to the 'marudha malai maamuniye' song, the producer Chinnappa Devar was nearby while composing the song, and Marudamalai being Devar's favorite (I think Devar decided to go to chennai only at Marudamalai), Kaviarasar gave the second line, 'Devaring kulam kakkum velayya'...Devar was fully pleased.
I think we have enough in our archives written by R.Venkatesh.
I must confess my ignorance as far as IR melodies go. I do know quite a bit on Kaviarasar related anecdotes. The marudhamalai maamani song used to be a personal favorite of MAdurai Somu and he ended every concert unfailingly with it. The 'devarin kulam kaakum..' line was accidental, not intentional. KD was out of money to perform his last daughter's wedding which was one week away. The usual practice was for the producer to pay the song writer after all songs were penned and set to tune. There was some time left for Deivam songs - he accidentally wrote the line Devarin kulam kakkum velayya, which pleased chinnappa devar so much that he offered 1 lakh on the spot and the wedding went off with great pomp and show.
Most of KD's songs have hidden meanings - Sivakaami maganidamum is referece to Kamaraj, Nalamdaana is for Arignar Anna, Poyille pirandu is for his girlfriend and actress Devika, Neeyum Naanuma kanna is for his nephew Panju Arunachalam, and so on.Will write more tonight.
On the late Kunnakkudi, as Venkat said he was never accepted and acknowledged by the classical music community - although he was very creative he was also an extremely good classical musician, occasionally even the hardened critic Subbudu acknowledged that.Salutations and may his soul rest in peace.
SPS...Semmangudiyaa kakkava..I have the greatest respect for him as the doyen of classical music..but he was not really liberal, he was even against MSS singing bhajans in her concert as she started her career. Ilayraja picture roomla vechurundarama...sari nambaravanga nambalam. Another great soul no more with us though so no point critiquing him.
I was sad when I read that you cant appriciate carnatic music. Its a different world. Please do learn and you will also enjoy. "Isai Yendra Inba Vellam" -- Thats true. I am a novice I am no expert and I havent learnt carnatic music -- All Kelvi Gyaanam.
After singing "Chinna Kannan Azhaikiran" for Kavikuyil movie. Dr.Balamuralikrishna appriciated IR that this is Reetigowla at its very best.
"Aaanandha Raaham Ketkum" from Paneer Pushpangal -- Simmendra Madhimam at its best.
The best part is that, in the same he would have composed two songs in the same raga and you will feel that they are different.
I am not sure of 8 degrees in music, but he the first Asian to perform in the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in London. This is not the Tiruvasagam Symphony which is available in the market. This is RPO.
Aah Raja the Great... it is truly wonderful to listen to his creations and one can appreciate it at so many different levels.. carnatic classical or western.. here is something I had written on a Guitar forum on Madai Thiranthu.. this might not be everyone's cup of tea but just to give you a flavor for how we can all appreciate Raja in our own way:
Anyway, this is a post I made to the guitar forum and discusses the tamil song Madai Thiranthu and its chord construction/progression etc. I doubt it will be of too much interest to people other than those who follow tamil songs AND play some instrument..
I thought that I would start off by posting the chords to the song "Madai Thiranthu" from Nizhalgal..
I play the song in the A#maj Scale. I don't know if this is the original one since I worked out the chords for this a few years ago, but it still works. If this is not the original scale, you can always move it around.
Ok.. the A#maj scale consists of the following notes:
A# C D D# F G A
The corresponding chords are:
A#, Cm, Dm, D#, F, Gm and Am-dim
(I apologize for being a little pedantic here but I have found that it usually helps to understand the scale first before going on to the chords).
The other thing to note is that you could call this the A#maj Scale or the Gmin Scale. The Gmin is the relative minor of the A#maj scale. (On the fretboard, you can identify this by going down three semitones (half notes) to find the relative minor of a major scale). The notes and chords remain the same except that you would start from G instead of A#. On second thoughts, seeing how the song shapes up, I would rather call this the Gmin Scale.
Anyway, let me give the chords first before a brief discussion:
Wow Arun, I wish I could follow. I am a classical music singer myself but no idea on instruments. I very much like the IR melodies mentioned ..Also true that tamil film world has had its share of classical music greats before IR also - Some of KV Mahadevan and Subbaraman's pieces are very memorable.
Now I understand what we mean by 'sound greek and latin' :)
I am just a fan but you can keep talking about Raja on and on.... I remember Barathiraja's comment on Raja's song...'If you close your eyes and listen to Raja's music, you can visualize the music'. Thats very true. You can visualize the music of Raja...
Arun, I learnt classical music from movies too!! I had a strong aversion of the way classical music was taught - rigid ways with little creative force and hero worship of musicians,strong caste factors - so I learnt from movies and after grade 9 attended classes and learnt formally. Some generic fyi on old tamil classical songs in case you are interested...
G.Ramanathan, S.V.Venkatraman(SV Sekar's dad who gave music for MSS's Meera) and CR Subbaraman are called the Tamil Thirai Isayin Mummoorthigal in those days.
Subbaraman composed music both in Telugu and Tamil - Devadas is an evergreen hit, although you have to tolerate Ghantasala's unbearable Tamil pronounciation to enjoy the songs. Perhaps one of the most famous numbers of Subbaramaan was Kadhal Kanirasame in PU Chinnappa's clear voice - A tamil take on Nada Thanu manisam (Shankarabharanam). I can't recall more on CR right away. G Ramanathan was just amazing, also acknowledged to be MSV's guru. Ambikapathy, Madurai Veeran,Uthama puthiran, Sampoorna Ramayanam...Wow what a list and most of them classical treats. Who can forget the Kaanada based Mullai malar mele from Uthama puthiran or even the Mukari based duet in Ambikapathy (anyone used Mukari that way??). The Ragamalika song in Sampoorna Ramayanam,or the MLV song to Aadal Kaaneero (a gorgeous Padmini's dance) in Madurai Veeran.
There are amazing directors in other languages as far as classical music goes - telugu in particular. Ghantasala and Pendyala in Telugu (Ghantasala's Mayabazar and Lavakusa are treats in Tamil too).I can go on and on on this for a very very long time.
IR brought back the common man to classical music - we have to give him credit for that, and his creativity/innovation is perhaps unmatched.But we have had a glorious past much of which unfortunately is very forgotten.
Thanks Malathy for that history lesson :) I have Sampoorna Ramayanam.. didn't know it was by Ramanathan.. I love the "Jagam pugazhum puNNiya kathai" song from LavaKusa.. is that by Ghantasala? I think Ghantasala has a more profound impact on Telugu film music than on Tamizh.
Arun, I apologize I think Sampoorna Ramayanam was KVM. GR was Madurai Veeran, Ambikapathy, Uthamaputhiran etc. Yes Lavakusa was Ghantasala at his best inspired by his guru KVM. I mean you can just let the movie run,close your eyes and enjoy the music it is so amazing. Sandegamum Yenamma in Hindolam, and Eedu inai nammku yedhu in Dhanyaasi, you could listen to them all day. Jagam Pugazhum is great but ranks below these numbers. If you get a HMV Lavakusa CD or cassette (tamil) I would highly recommend just to see how he has used many ragas and many singers.
Yes he was basically telugu but in those days they made all movies bilingual so much of his music is in tamil also. Mayabazar, another one, the mohanam based Aaha inba nilavinile is one of the best movie mohanam compositions. And Kalyana samayal saadam based on African samba music is another treat.
KVM..how can we forget him, with all these guys? KVM was Ghantasala's guru also and partially did music for Lavakusa. Maharajan Ulagai AAluvan (Karahapriya from Karnan, cut in the movie), was an absolute work of genius. In his latter years actually he moved totally to telugu since taste for classical music in tamil was near gone (until IR came on the seen again).
A veritable fount of information!:) Thanks for all that. I always wondered why KVM didn't do more movies in Tamizh.. Shankarabharanam was KVM right? Great songs!
The thing about IR was that he made songs based on classical ragas but made them in such a way that it was easily hummable by the masses.. amazing.
I have high regards / respects to all the music doyens. But in my opinion one cannot put the work of IR in simple words, as mentioned in your mail. He took the "BEST" from every form of music - Carnatic / Hindustani / Western Classical. He used this knowledge and fused them together when he composed songs.
For a man from Pannaipuram village who never had any formal training in music, learning different forms of music when he had no money in his pocket, analyzing them and picking the best of every music and applying them to film music ... This is some thing very great. This is easier said than done. If I start explaining them it will become a over dose of IR to this forum. For me other musicians great people /doyens and this man is a LEGEND.
Udanx, I have no problems with anyone calling IR a legend or for that matter appreciating how much effort it took for him to reach where he was.
Also to remember - olden days musicians did not make a fraction of money that IR did.Many of them did not even have their name mentioned in the credits occasionally. KVM helped many younger musicians without his name mentioned - including MSV and Ghantasala. Ghantasala in turn helped several people like TV Raju and even SP Balasubramaiam with no credit at all and he sang many of his own songs since he could not afford playback singers, he was a very good singer but in spite of that. In fact it was SPB who erected a statue for his guru/master as he called him very recently. Ghantasala died of throat cancer and insisting on singing even until the very last day. Mohammed Rafi up north was very similar. Rafi used to send anonymous money contributions in fact to struggling young playback artistes.
There is no one person or one anyone who is above and beyond others. Kalai ulagam is a contribution of multiple people.
Malathi, We are talking about talent not about the philanthropic activities of people in the Cine field. I do have the highest regards for people who do all this ... That too with out a hint of publicity that they are doing that. But thats not in the main stream discussion of this thread.
Also earning money thats also not counted as there are other music directors who have made loads of money which IR can never ever think of.
So lets lets discuss music alone
1. Talent / Exposure to music / Chances of learning music when they were young / Surroundings ... 2. Knowledge of music (Carnatic / Hindustani / Western Classic) 3. Application of what they learned 4. Innovation / Experiments in their field
Having said that I am a great fan of Mr.MSV / Mr.KVM. I have not analyzed Mr.KVM very critically to some extent Mr.MSV. Again I will tell you the difference in cricketing terms (In which I am at home) In olden days Leg Glance or Flick is played when the ball is pitching on leg stump and leaving the leg stump. Playing that shot is not everybody's forte. Few played it well.
But it was GR Vishwanath who re-defined the flick / leg glance. Even if the ball pitches on off stump and moves towards middle stump he would flick the ball and it will run to boundary. He would do this effortlessly . Improvisation at its best. Defying the grammar of music I have given examples in my earlier posyt.
Similarly late cut between Wicket Keeper and 1st slip / 1st slip and 2nd slip / Slip and Gully. All these need little variation in his hand grip, open the face of the bat and timing. Similarly moving from one Raga to another Rage and then coming back to the rage where he started -- IR is a master in that.
Vishy use to play shots in a area where there is no fielder. The bowling captain would move a fielder to the position where Vishy scored runs. Immediately Vishy would play a shot into the place from where the fielder was moved. IR would compose on Ragas which others would not even think of.
Dear Udanx, yes I like this debate!! I am not that familiar with cricketing techniques although I really like the game - but I get what you are trying to say. I will respond to you in detail tonight, as cannot write as much as I'd like to from work.
Udanx, I mentioned philanthropic acts in honor of those because of their dedication to music even when very little money was involved. You cannot discount the money factor since composing music is very hard work and very difficult to do when money involved is less. Please enlighten me on who are the music directors who made more money than IR? Perhaps Rehman now. But In Tamil atleast - IR in his heydays made more than even top notch Hindi directors. My uncle was in income tax and every year his house was a prime target for their raids. They found currency even in his puja room, under the deity. It is a true fact.
Now let us move on to creativity. One thing - the fusion music that we are talking about is not special. It is one form of music, that is all. Thinking it is higher/lower than traditional music is like saying abstract art is better than realism, or cubism is better than impressionism. No. All are art forms and there are artistes who are good at each of them. IR's forte undoubtedly is his creativity and innovation. Violinist L Subramaniam and Sitar maestro Ravishankar have produced great fusion music - there are people who like them and people who don't. L Subramaniam is not greater than Lalgudi or TN Krishnan just because he produced great fusion music.
Yes IR made semi classical music more hummable, hmmm, perhaps. He came at a time when classical music was taking a real beating and all music directors including MSV were past their time. That combined with his natural genius made it click. The common man always appreciated classical music provided it was sung right - MKT's euphoric Manmada leelayai vendraar was enjoyed at every street corner in Tamil Naadu, by the same common man!!
I give full marks to the fact that IR'background was very humble and he did not have training or exposure to music. Yes definitely he stands apart in that regard. But regardless of how much of training and exposure you have , making a break in movies is very hard and even harder to sustain. In other words nobody makes it just because they are talented - with or without background.
More on specifics on music later, or it will be too much for one post!
Udanx, Hai Hai, why woudn't anyone be so inspired when they get the kind of payments he got??? IJokes aside, it is impossible for anyone to make music unless they enjoyed it and were good at it, am not discounting that - but what I mean by hard work is the sheer logistics, getting the orchestra and singers to play the way the director wants, completing the songs in said time, and so on. IR's songs, many of them starting sounding similar because of the demand and pressure, a creative director acknowledges these difficulties and limits his projects. My point jumps back in from the window :))
Yeah at one point of time he didnt' have a lot of money, at one point of time most film personalites did not have a lot of money - movie stars, music directors all of them especailly in those days. Ghantasala came to Chennai with one shirt , 2 rupees and one leg with a limp due to a gunshot in a freedom struggle.MSV lost both his parents and suffered great poverty before he made it. Just saying he is not the only one with humble origins saar :))
I did not dispute his taste in classical music or anything personal like having concerts at home. Using classical ragas is common with every music director since the dawn of time -Almost all his predecssors did and did so extremely well. Edhavadhu oru ragam edungalen, pappom? You said sindhu bhairavi right? Starting with MKT's vadaname chandra bimbamo(sivakavi, GR), Rajeswara Rao's Mayame Naan Ariyen (Missiamma), MSV's yennai yaar endru (paalum pazhamum), Sitthamellam enakku siva mayame (Thirvarutchelvar) - how many sindhu bhairavis you need? Balamurai, Semmangudi, ellarum greats dhaan. Aana kakka pudikkal asaamis to the core. To me anyway that is not important. IR knows some classical music and has some great compositions. People before him also had their share of that, whether or not the Balamuralis and Semmangudis accepted them is immaterial. That is all.
Kadasiya let us get it straight. Ungalukku IR mattum dhan pudichurikkunna that is perfectly fine. Everyone has their favorites and undoubtedly the guy is a great musician. The main point I disagree with you is that his predecessors were somehow secondary or inferior to him. Every man's sucess is a combination of talent and right timing. He had both. Lots of his predecessors have done yeoman contributions to the rich world of music. We have to honor and accept everyone in the hall of fame. That is all.
Ennoda email rules follow panreengalo illayo, paravallai. Aana half mirugathoda manushiya modha naan virumbalai, logical illaya??:) Apparam varra sattham definite IR music madhiri irukkaadhu, ellarum odi do vaanga :)) Good day!!
Sabash Sariyaana potti. But what interested me in the topic is the true joy to the creator in the composition.
- Is it his personal joy on creating a masterpiece ( in sculpture - i would say the kind that the ajanta artist would have felt - his art was not much exhibitionist but reflected perfection),
- Is it the reward he got for his work ( like the mallai artist - hosted by the artist kings of the great pallava clan)
- Is it the appreciation he got for his work - worldwide acclaim - sadly no sculpture signed his work - the fame went to the king or the donor. so cant see parallels there.
A direct question that rises from this is, why did the superb art of sculpture vane - lack of talent, lack of motivation,lack of patrons /reward, lack of appreciators.
If we can identify the above, maybe we can try and find the cure.
Ilayaraja made MSV made Tamilians listen to Tamil songs.. Ilayaraja made South India listen to Tamil Songs and Rahman made India listen to Tamil songs :)
Like Newton said, we see farther because we stand on the shoulders of giants.. an IR would not have arrived without an MSV and so on :)
Arun; Small correction--Rehman made the world listen to Tamil songs. There's a Nicolas Cage movie (i cant remember the name) which uses the Roja theme music. I was watching on Star Movies and was shocked!! I checked the credits and dint find Rehman's name there. Earlier there was an opinion that our music directors copied thier Western counterparts...now look whats happening.
I am sure you would have heard about the 4 qudrant matrix projected for any problem in any management workshop. Money on the X axis and talent on Y axis. We can ignore HT/HM (high talent, high money) - HM/LT (high money, low talent) groups. It is only the HT/LM (high talent, low money) group which needs patronage for full realization of the group's potential. What is to be done with LT/LM group?
I think there is no debate at all if you agree that everyone contributed in their own way (including ARR) as many others said!! You said quite clearly you thought IR had 'legend' status while others are 'just greats' and that is the point I dispute.
Yeah one tune seems similar and he used the same raaga...talk of rehashing..of course he had to meet deadlines, producer enna paithyima, he is paying out of his nose :)) I mean it is a known fact against IR admitted himself that he was overcommitted and could not deliver the quality he wanted. He even went as far as saying he wished he never came to movies, in a kumudam interview.
Everyone used raagas, most people made it as a rags to riches story. One of the reasons why classical music detiorated so much is due to athiest movement and many classical music singers/directors happened to be brahmins. In fact the common man's image of a classical music singer itslef is a kudumi mama. During its worst times you could not even watch movies with lot of songs in a theatre. IR arrived at this time. He had immense talent to go with it and he made it. End of story.
Udanx, I will go through the excel file and respond to you on the ragas. I never disputed IR's knowledge but only said most music directors did have considerable knowledge of classical music.
Also, most usage of ragas in movies is diluted. Including IR they always do a lot of mix and match, we can only say what is closest. IR did more movies/music than most others, so obviously his count may be higher.
There is no shortage of usage of ragas by veteras - in particular G Ramanathan, Ghantasala and KVM. They have also used ragas that IR has not tried. In other words it is not a comparison and elimination game. I will post more info on the specific ragas you said later tonight. In general - Let us respect, enjoy the music and then hero worship the people, if possible not hero worship at all - that is all.
I am Sorry madam.I just quoted what you said in the previous mail. You had written IR knows some classical music. Which is wrong statement and more over its a strong statement. He has very sound knowledge, so much that Critic Subbudu had lot of respect for him and has appriciated him. That's what I said as "Vasihtar Vaayala Bramma Rishi Pattam". I know, now you will say even Subbudu is partial / also one sided / kakka pudikkaravar! Correct-a? If that's is the case, then we will stop arguing this point (IR is well versed in Classical Music) here itself. I need a black and white answer from your end in the next mail. Not a grey answer neither here not there.
Coming to the number of songs IR has in his kitty. When you talk to people who call themselves as IR fans ask them their favorite. I am sure they will say "Poo Malaye Thol Serava" / Udaya Geetham Songs / Or if you insist on even earlier songs they may come to Jonny. But let me tell you when you look at his career from Annakili to Moodupani (His 100th movie) he has tried / experimented many ragas during this period. I will say post 85 were all hit all his experiments were 76 - 85.
Coming to the Tier-1 / Tier-2 concept I do agree that MSV / KVM are all there in Tier-1. But I do have a ranking there in that Tier. I didn't reveal that. Do I need to say who is 1st rank in that Tier-1? Again we may start discussing why 1st Rank to IR and why not MSV / KVM.
Thats what I said in my previous mail - All of them have the same set of Ragas. But why didn't it strike MSV and KVM to do the experiments which IR did? Applying the same concept again and again is a ordinary thing. Being curious about new things and ideas, trying them out in film music by applying his imagination. This is just like a scientist. All others greats of previous generations are good teachers, not a scientist. But this man is a good scientist. So I give this extra credit to this man and I place him up on the top. Above all the greats of yester years.
Remember Kamal once said about IR, you should not call him "Isai Gnani" rather you should call him "Isai Vignani" Now you may question Kamal's knowledge in music. Kamal once broke his leg and was out of film shooting for some time. He utilised that to start his music classes and his teacher was Dr.Balamuralikrishna.
Again coming back to Ragas handled by other greats show me one in Kanakangi - First Ragam in Melakarta. IR has composed "Mohan Yennum" song in Sindhu Bhairavi.
Great work! Please complete it. Enakku isaignanam onnum kidaiyaathu. Try to complete the work and share with people like me, atleast we can learn something from your work.
Dear Vijay, Would you agree with me that stone sculpture {and also bronzes} deteriorated in quality after the 11th century? When I walked by the Shilpa stalls in Mallai a couple of winters ago, I was unhappy to see how stiff, wooden, uninspired the murthis were. Where has the 'prana' gone? I know they have to follow strict rules of proportion and gesture, but still. . . Do you agree? I do admire some of the later Gopuram murthis, though. They still have lots of inner energy. Kathie
Good debate...Everyone has their talent and we should respect everyone. My order of preference for music always goes from b/w movies to IR and then only to the latest movies. Whatever said and done, IR is IR and we should accept that. And I felt some of Malathi's words are harsh towards IR...
I remember IR himself saying that, he delivers only a portion of what he thinks in his mind, because by the time he gets a music in his mind, and recollect and write it as notes in the paper, he misses most of the them. Because music is a continuous flow and very difficult to keep pace of the minds speed. So if only a portion of his creativity has shaken us, what will be the full force of his thought process??
Recently in one concert, SPB narrated their experience of a song recording in Bombay. The orchestra was local and IR, SPB and team were there to record a song. After the recording is done, one of the local orchestra talked with SPB and scolded IR with bad words...dont ask that person to come again, he is giving very difficult notes to play and better you too dont come back, because you are ruining our income by finishing the song in one take....
As Udanx said, no one can match the mood that IR can create. As I said, IR music can be visualized. When I heard a song from Pithamagan before the movie was released, I was thinking that it should be a climax song and could feel what the song situation could be and the same I could see when the movie was released.
And on Hey Ram, Kamal said, the music is history, never happened and will never happen - L.Subramaniam was the music director, composed the songs for Hey Ram and almost 80% of the song shooting was completed. Then due to some reason, L.Subramaniam moved out and due to personal friendship Kamal requested IR to take over. All the filming done for the movie was a loss as they have to shoot the songs again with IRs music. IR coming to know of this, said, dont throw it away, show me the picturisation of the songs without the music, I will compose the new songs, with the same lyrics for the lip movement of what has been shot already.... and thats how it was done...I dont think anyone will have that guts to do such a thing and the music of HeyRam are pretty decent...
Talking of ARR - I was a die hard fan of Rahman once. Though he is a great music director, I have my reservations, when he reuses the same music again and again...Tamil songs remade into Hindi, then again into english...also read a review on his album,'Vande Mataram' - if this is his dream project, why cant he create a new piece and why is he reusing the song from Karuthamma?' very valid point....
And ARR's songs used in hollywood movies - The movie 'Inside Man' has 'Chayya Chayya' full song as its title song,with due credits to ARR. It was pleasure to see a Hindi song played as title song in a hollywood movie and that too the music director is a Tamil....what else to say..
Udanx - we are beginning to talk a little in circles nenakkaren..Excuse my usage of the word 'some'. IR knows classical music very well. Podhuma? Point taken. My point - he is not the ONLY one who knew classical music very well. I think I told you creativity/fusion etc was his forte - granted. But creativity/fusion is not the only way you rank a music director. I cannot talk as fluently as you do in cricket lingo. Let us use something more basic. Perhaps food?
There are two ice cream shops famous near where I live. One is a regular one, sells good home made ice cream in standard flavors. Vanilla, Strawberry, Chocolate, Pistachio, some others. Wholesome regular flavor. If you have visited Gujarat, the home of dairy in India you would have some idea. The ice cream there tastes so different from other branded products. This shop is like that. The other shop is a creative freak. Totally mix and match all types of flavors. Mango Pineapple with Avocados and pecan toppings, Lavender Peppermint with pistachios, Chocolate bananas with red chillie sprinkle toppings (or something like that). Some of these flavors are great, some are well..somewhat questionable. I like red chilies, bananas and chocolate, but not in the same bowl. So do so many other people. Yes the regular flavors get very boring at times but lots of people like just a regular bowl of ice cream nothing fancy. Can we compete on which ice cream is best? One guy gets awards for wholesomeness, the other guy for creativity. That is all. Old timers get awards for wholesome regular classical music, there are no debates on which raga is used, it is direct, simple and easy. IR gets award for creativity and usage of rare ragas. If I don't like chillie chocolate ice cream I don't like people messing around with Mari Mari ninne, it is good as it is . You might like it and also go for Kanakangi while I settle for a regular Kambodhi. Since when did classical music become an experiment in exoticism?
On variety just some statistics. G Ramanathan had 54 songs in Sivakavi, each one a different raaga. Ghantasala had 29 in Lavakusa, again each one a different raga (many were cut in the movie to sustain the limit and interest of the tamil audience). MSV made songs with many interesting creative variances - Enge nimmadhi to date used the maximum instruments as orchestra, Ponal pogattum poda, the least. So everybody has their share of 'medals'? Sariya...
This debate gives an interesting opportunity to compile the stuff I already know and learn more. I will send more details tonight.
Udanx, also I forgot that whole Subbudu/Kamal thing. Subbudu was an ocean of knowledge in classical music. Kamal knows a lot about movies. But both are master bloopers. Subbudu was asked towards his later years on who was his favorite movie director. Take a wild guess whom he said?? IR makes songs like pazhaiya kaalam, ARR does not make music at all - my preference is Deva. Deva the copycat king, in my opinion he does not even rank on the list of music directors worthy of discussion!! Subbudu continued his Deva puranam for a while actually, kumudam i think. Maybe another magazine also but I remember how he stunned the whole music world when he said that.
Kamal, I think I have bashed Kamal enough so not trying any further. Rendu perume Vasishtar illai - yaarukkum Brahmarishi kuddukka. Vittuduvome, please :)
This is a nice discussion. But i dont think ARR is getting his due especially for what he has achieved in such a short time. He's in the industry for less than 20 years? Even IR had to reinvent his techniques (not music which was and is divine) after Roja. Tamil music, tamil cinema owe a lot to ARR simply for making an effort to globalise. Regarding him redoing his own tunes, come on, its his own tune...he's not taking IR's or MSV's tune!! If he feels Karuthamma song would have suited Vande Matharam then he can do it, its not IR's tune, is it? And Vande Mataram was a stunning album which made the phrase Vande Mataram comfortable to a whole new generation.
And the guy is inredibly shy during interviews. There was this interview in NDTV and the host was really agitated as ARR was only giving answers in "mmmm" and all the while looking down. This was sometime after Roja and then after some years they had another one which was only slightly better.
IR, MSV are all incredible south Indian music directors. ARR is of another level. A true product of globalisation.
Below is my list, work in progress. I start with editing yours Udanx and it became too tough. So am making one of my own, preferably alphabetical raaga wise and including yours too (hope that is ok). I will include rare ragas as much as possible but I am not getting into complex variations or cocktails regardless of which music director did them. I am a grade I classical music learner and do not boast of knowing such nuances that well trained ears can catch :))
I am enjoying this much, hope everyone else does as well. This weekend I wil post it as a spreadsheet with audio/video links wherever possible. Below list is just a start.
Malathi
Raaga Songs Movie Director
Bhageshree Angum Ingum Avargal MSV
Nilave ennidam nerungaadhe Ramu MSV
Kaaviyam Paada Vaa Idhayathai Thirudaadhe IR
Kapi Dhyaname Enadhu Ashok Kumar GR
Kadhal Roja (anupallavi and saranam) Roja ARR
Idhu kuzhandai paadum thalattu Oru thalai raagam TRajendar
Indha Pachaikillikoru Some MGR movie(Yesudas) MSV
Ponmagal Vandhal Sorgam MSV
Chozhanin magane vaa Nenjukku needhi MSV
Oru kunguma chenkamalam Aradhanai IR
Closest Classical song Enna thavam seidhanai
Jagadhodharana
Keeravaani Aadadha manamum undo Mannadhi mannan GR
Manram Vandha Thendralukku Mouna Ragam IR
Mannil Indha Kaadhalandri Keladi Kanmani IR
Pattu Padava Then Nilavu AM Raja
Omkaramai Vilangum Naadham Ambikapathi GR
Neeye unakku endrum nigaranavan TMS
Suddha Dhanyasi Vasantha Kaala Kolangal Needhi or Vidhi MSV
Endi muthamma Aaru pushpangal MSV
Pahadi Poo Vizhi vasalil Deepam IR
Veera Maata Kausalya devi petra Lavakusa Ghantasala