I think, lot of disussions were already made in connection with the saint who is shown in the Big Temple paintings. Recently i got to know that there was one hindu saint who basically from North India, act as a Guru to RRC. So, it's still doubtful who was the Spiritual Guru of RRC?
1. Karuvuraarar 2. Nambiandavar Nambi 3. North Indian Saint.
any idea?
anbudan, Ramki
"Civilization is that mode of conduct which points out to man the path of duty" - Mahatma Gandhiji
does everyone need a spirutual guru? did rajarajan for his warrior attitude need one.? he was not extra religious than his family or times warrant.
definitely not- that he spent all his life building temples. for every temple he built his great aunt and uncle uthama built ten. and his grand uncle kandarathiththar's poetry is in the 12 thirumurais.
even the finding of the thirumurai being attributed to him seems to be doubtful. (does anybody have deatils about nambiyandar nambis time in history?)if he did not do it then nambiyandar nambi was not a contemprory.
of course today we attribute the shape of the big temple to his philosophy of the linga and mount meru but in recent weks we have observed the shape or size of the big temple is in no way unique. many buildings in india plus or minus a few centuries have similar structures.
karuvurar inspite of other's denials seems to have been a contemprory. perhaps the only saint who describes tanjore during its heydays.so if it was anybody , its karuvurar.
Thanks for the detail. I'm also surprised to see the period of Nambiyandaar Nambi. It's quite doubtful that RRC & Nambiyandaar Nambi worked together to combine the Thirumurai. It must have done during the period of Kandarathithar.. i mean Sundara cholas period. Because, Sundara chola was the only kind who was interested in Tamil literature. So, Nambiyandaar & Rajarajan might have combined the same in written format. Even during the period of Kandaraththithar, Thirumurai was popular in so many temples especially in the temples situated in the bank of Cauvery.
It seem that RRC turned to Spiritual only after attaining his age around 50.. i mean after completion of his 20th year rule. Isn't right?
I just want to know who is that North India saint? :)
Dear Ramki, RRC's Guru - 'Isaana Siva Pandithar'.. He belongs to 'paasupatha' group in shivate. Those days lot of groups in praying Shiva. "Kalamuga, Paasupatha,etc". RRC guru not Not Karuvur Thevar. There are inscription to support this. Ref. Big temple Inscriptions No.90will explain more about this. Ref. http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=184
> did rajarajan for his warrior attitude need one.? > he was not extra religious than his family or times warrant.
Most certainly Rajaraja had a guru and was initiated into the paasupatha saivism. You will see a change in his attitude after the initial conquests. The later wars of his time were lead by Rajendra.
Focus on conquests - then focus on administration - and then comes total focus on religion.
I can write a whole essay as to why rajaraja has to be considered religious - but I'll stop here.
> even the finding of the thirumurai being attributed to him seems to > be doubtful. (does anybody have deatils about nambiyandar nambis time > in history?)
Again I disagree. Refer Kundanthai Sethuraman's "Thirumuraigal Thoguththa kaalam" essay. Raajaraja's titles were not just fancy biruddas - it is more like that of mahendra's. Hence the title "Thirumurai kanda chozhan" certainly has a sense. Remember rajaraja's interest in MEI keerthis not POI keerthis. Nambiyandar nambi lived in Rajaraja as well as Rajendra's times - as per kudanthai. His complilation extended for long time.
> karuvurar inspite of other's denials seems to have been a > contemprory. perhaps the only saint who describes tanjore during its > heydays.so if it was anybody , its karuvurar.
Karuvoorar does not seem to have lived in the period of rajaraja - again quoting kudanthai sethuraman.
-Here we go again one who disputes karuvurars presence during rrc and rjcs times has not read thiruvisaipa where he describes tanjore in its heydays( which was for a very short time) either karuvurar had a wonderful sense of imagination or he must have witnessed the kumbabishekam sps tells me the difference between the kumbabishekams of big temple and gkc is 25 years ort less. very much possible for a man of religious attributes to live. the absence of a kalvettu does not mean absence of a man.
here I quote one stanza of thiruvisaipa and its translation swetha sent this to me long back,( the translation is in thuuya english and the original in thuuya tamil- bear with me
Princes whose royal umbrellas are like the clusters, Of kongu-flowers, throng the streests, Of walled Thanjavur dight with lofty mansions And as their crowns rub one another, Rubies aplenty fall from them An incarnadine radiance mantling the city Lo, the crescent in the matted crest of the Lord Forever diffuses a cool luculence So, what may the import be of the act of the Lord That rides an argent Bull And goes in a procession - shaded by A margaritaceous umbrella Whence issues a silvery white lusture Like unto moon light?
> Princes whose royal umbrellas are like the clusters, > Of kongu-flowers, throng the streests, > Of walled Thanjavur dight with lofty mansions > And as their crowns rub one another, > Rubies aplenty fall from them > An incarnadine radiance mantling the city > Lo, the crescent in the matted crest of the Lord > Forever diffuses a cool luculence > So, what may the import be of the act of the Lord > That rides an argent Bull > And goes in a procession - shaded by > A margaritaceous umbrella > Whence issues a silvery white lusture > Like unto moon light?
I can't find meanings for the words luculence, margaritaceous. Would you be kind enough to give me substitues so I can better understand the glory of Tanjavur.
Hai vidya did I not mention it was thuuya english perhaps victorian I will try to translate it and send it to you. athnaal thaan full poem anuppavillai. mandai kaanchudum. venketesh
Margaritaceous: Like a pearl.. Luculence: No such word.. closest word is luculent which is an adjective and means "clear in thought or expression" = lucid I think the translator took a poet's liberty to coin the noun form of luculent and hence got luculence.
Venkatesh, >>> vidya did I not mention it was thuuya english >>> perhaps victorian thuuya translates to pure, so I thought you were clarifying that no Thanglish was being used.
>>> I will try to translate it and send it to you. >>> athnaal thaan full poem anuppavillai. >>> mandai kaanchudum. Thanks to Arun Krishnan, there is no need now.
BTW, you wrote >>>here I quote one stanza of thiruvisaipa and its translation >>>swetha sent this to me long back So I assumed that Swetha did the translation. I gather from your response that this might have been done during Victorian times. Please share the translator's name and the book (if one exists) you are quoting from.