Museum exhibits – stolen artifacts? (10 posts)

  • Profile picture of sampath_srinivasaraghavan sampath_srinivasaraghavan said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Quote: Most of the world’s great museums, including the British
    Museum and the Louvre, tell lies of omission about the objects they
    display within their walls, too.Some excerpts from The New York Times
    article on the Metropolitan museum. The above quote is also from the
    same source. Full piece is available
    athttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/opinion/01waxman.html?pagewanted=1&_
    r=2&th&emc=th

    Sampath
    Museum exhibits – stolen artifacts?

    Who should own the treasures of antiquity?

    The debate about the ownership of artifacts in museums continue. Very
    rarely do the museums give the history of the acquisition of pieces. The
    issue is that by buying stolen objects, they encourage the looting of
    cultural heritage.

    The governments of Italy and Turkey have filed lawsuits to force the
    return of plundered and looted artworks. Egypt has threatened to suspend
    excavation permits if iconic artifacts are not repatriated. Greece has
    built a new museum in Athens in large part to justify its renewed
    demands for the return of the Elgin Marbles from Britain.

    For the most part, the world’s great museums, like the Metropolitan,
    have responded only when under direct threat and, even then, they do not
    acknowledge wrongdoing.

    A stunningly beautiful vase by one of the greatest artists of ancient
    Greece, it came to the Met under dubious circumstances in 1972 —
    court records say it had been excavated by a gang of tomb robbers in
    Italy. After a long, embarrassing fight, the museum sent the krater back
    to Italy last January, which then displayed it as part of an exhibition
    called “Nostoi,” a nod to the ancient Greek epic about the
    heroes’ return from the Trojan war.

    The Met’s galleries and Web site are mysteriously devoid of recent
    facts about the provenance of many artifacts. Most visitors have no idea
    how the treasures on display in the Greek and Roman rooms, the Egyptian
    antiquities department, or the Byzantine, African, Asian and Oceanic
    collections came to be housed in the museum.

    As the American consul in Cyprus in the 1860s, Cesnola kept 100 diggers
    busy in Larnaca; his house became a kind of museum. Cesnola smuggled out
    no fewer than 35,573 artifacts — passing them off as the property of
    the Russian consul — for which the Met paid $60,000.

    How did it get here? In 1922, as the Greeks and Turks warred over the
    port of Izmir, the column was spirited away by American archaeologists
    along with hundreds of other pieces and sent to the Met. When the
    hostilities ended, the Turks protested and the theft (or rescue,
    depending on one’s perspective) became an international incident,
    recorded in State Department archives. After much negotiation, the Turks
    ceded ownership of the column in exchange for the return of 53 cases of
    antiquities, also stolen from Sardis.

    For years, the Met also kept secret its purchase of the Lydian Hoard, a
    spectacular group of 363 gold and silver treasures from the time of King
    Croesus, bought from smugglers in 1966, 1967 and 1968. It was not until
    the Turkish government sued the museum and seemed likely to win in court
    that the Met gave in and returned the pieces, in 1993.

    Most of the world’s great museums, including the British Museum and
    the Louvre, tell lies of omission about the objects they display within
    their walls, too.

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Sampath, museums are legally obligated to give the history, i am nto sure of the origins of such a brazen article but i do know it is the law and it is also combined with the fact that anything over 100 years belongs to any country even if it was plundered or looted.

    Will surely get back to you on this,

    Malath

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    I have posted the US Laws on Museum art as given by Metropolitan museum in the states. I have a log in and so not able to post the link.

    Just fyi clarifiying further L’

    1 The original statement was ALL museum art is looted which is completely false.
    2 There are controversies all the time, and will continue on art esp that over 100 years and where it belongs.
    3 As I said before – much of indian art atleast is preserved in western museums with greatest respect and in much better condition than in the parent country – what would you prefer?

    Malathi

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Here is one more link of stolen art returned

    http://www.forward.com/articles/3642/

  • Profile picture of sampath_srinivasaraghavan sampath_srinivasaraghavan said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Every criminal is innocent till proved guilty. English law.Museum law:
    What we have is ours, irrespective of how we got it; onus is on the
    nation/institution/individual to provide proof of ownership.The preamble
    of the policy document mentions at the beginning the acquisitions in the
    collection of the British museum that are covered, by purchase, gift or
    fieldwork. There is no mention of acquisition by way of loot, booty or
    conquest. However, by all standards and common consent, most of the
    objects in the British Museum have been acquired as booty, by looting or
    conquest. Since there is no mention of these modes of acquisition, one
    may presume that those illegal modes of acquisition come under
    fieldwork.http://www.elginism.com/20080516/1114/

    May 16, 2008The British
    Museum’s de-acessioning policy

    Posted at 3:27 pm in British Museum
    , Similar cases

    Kwame Opoku looks at the British Museum’s de-accessioning policy
    & concludes that once an item
    is in the museum it is very difficult for it to leave the system at a
    later date – no matter what the reasons.

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Sampath, Ok, i will take your side of the argument and let us assume ALL museum collections are looted. Let us also assume all that is somehow restored to India. What guarantee do you have that it will be maintained even 10 percent as well as it is abroad? How many temple treasures and works of art are languishing in temples and poorly maintained homes? How many can afford the scientific treatments needed to keep ancient documents and works of art in place? Sometime ago somenoe even posted a link on how Saraswati Mahal is struggling for funds to keep up the treasured artifacts intact.

    There are loopholes in every law and every process. The 100 year old law of taking art work out of any country is also a highly debatable one. But nevertheless it exists.

    To accuse every museum in every part of the world of ‘loot’ (with the assumption that we need it back and we will keep it) is writing off our treasures for good. Please try to appreciate the effort and respect with which these are maintained, regardless of which part of the world that is.

    Malathi

  • Profile picture of ravi_eds ravi_eds said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    What about the one on top of the British crown, now that we are behind all that was looted, lets get that too ;-)
    Museum la vecha thaan thirudu pona propertya?

  • Profile picture of sampath_srinivasaraghavan sampath_srinivasaraghavan said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    Where did I say that all museum collections are looted. I started with
    this statement -” Some of the museum stuff is definitely obtained by
    unethical means, knowingly or unknowingly from looters, smugglers,
    carted off by zealous archaeologists as trophies or for financial
    gains.”
    The second part is really tricky and unethical. The argument “You can’t
    maintain it, so we seize it and display it in a glass case or exchange
    it or sell it for profit as we have appropriated ownership” is difficult
    to swallow. One can stretch the argument ” you parents are poor and
    can’t take care of your children; so we will take them to US/UK and
    provide the best environment, but the child is legally ours.”

    The solution is to provide financial/technical support to the
    nation/family to bridge the gap to keep the resources.
    Will the museums transfer the ownership and take the exhibits on lease
    on payment after adjusting for preservation and maintenance?
    If finders become keepers and become owners after 100 years is
    international law, then the law needs revision.
    There was a news item that most of the Iraqui treasures vanished
    during/after the attack. We have to wait to know their fate!
    This is my view!
    Sampath

  • Profile picture of injamaven Kathie said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    The Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, was given a tremendous collection
    acrued
    by the Sri Lankan, Ananda Coomaraswamy. Who knows how he obtained his
    holdings? What saddens me, is that most are in the basement
    storeroom. . .
    I really must ask to see them. Many early Mathura images are here in
    Massachusetts. Isn’t that surprising?
    The West is happy to have them, and has the facilities to keep them in
    temp-controlled facillites. Should we send them back to, say, India
    Museum, Kolkata; or to previously called Prince Albert Museum, Mumbai?
    What do you think?
    Kathie

  • Profile picture of injamaven Kathie said 2 years, 3 months ago:

    are you referring to the Koh-i-Noor?
    stolen from the last Punjab Maharaja, Ranjit Singhji?
    kathie

    >

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