Toilets (20 posts)

  • Profile picture of intellisurfer intellisurfer said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    I had always this fascination on this subject. As a person with amateurish interest in History, I like to know the sanitation of our ancient people. What kind of toilets they used, how did they wash, was all “business” conducted near lakes and river beds? If some conducted “business” inside forts, towns and cities; then how was it cleaned and drained.

    Though I have read the “Internet” about these, most of the info pertains to Europeans; and one has to dig real hard to find things about Indians.

    Sorry, if this subject matter disgusts you.

  • Profile picture of svprsk svprsk said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Read this…interesting…

    http://www.sulabhtoiletmuseum.org/fact.htm

    *ARYAN CODE OF TOILETS – 1500 BC*
    *Ancient India Manusmriti Vishnupuran*

    Code for married people: An elaborate drill for defecation is prescribed in
    the most respected Aryan scripture – “Manusmriti Vishnupuran.”

    – Before going to the toilet the scripture prescribes elaborate drill.
    – Before going for defecation one was to chant the following mantra from
    Narad Puran :- “Gachhantu Rishio Deva
    Pishacha ye cha grihya ka
    Pitrbhutagana surve
    Karishye Malamochanam”

    – Before going for defecation it was prescribed that the sacred thread
    should be rolled to a smaller size and be put on the right ear.
    – The head was to be covered with a cloth. In the absence of cloth, the
    sacred thread was to be brought over the head and was to be hung on the left
    ear.
    – Then while observing silence and facing north in the day and south in
    the night one could defecate.
    – While defecating one was not to touch water.
    – After defecation the water pot was to be held in the right hand, left
    hand was to be used for cleaning.

    Ablution code: In Vishnu Purana some rules are laid down for post
    defecation stage.

    “Aika Linga guda trin dashabamkare mrid,
    Hastdve cha samaranyascharana cha tribhistribhi”

    It says, while defecating the orientation of the face should not be towards
    “Sun”, “Brahmin”, “Fire”, or “Moon”.

    – After defecation the “Linga” (generative organ) is to be washed once,
    “Guda” (anus) to be washed three times, the left hand to be washed ten
    times, and the right hand seven times, and both the feet to be cleaned with
    earth and water three times.
    – After defecation the water pot was to be held in the right hand and was
    to be used for cleaning.
    – The “Linga” was to be rubbed once with earth and the “Guda” rubbed
    three times with earth. Then both washed with water. This was to ensure that
    there is no odour left in the body.
    – After this one should pick up water with right hand. One was advised to
    pick-up fist full of earth. This was to be divided in three parts. With the
    first part it was laid down that the left hand be cleaned 10 times and the
    right was to be cleaned with the second part 7 times. The third part was to
    be used to clean three times the water utensil.
    – It was also laid down that both the feet were to be washed with water.

    The following shloka gives the philosophy of protecting environment by
    adoption of elaborate defecation practices,

    “Dashasthana pritjay mutram kurya
    Jalashay Shathasthan
    Parishartha triya nawan Chaturgunam !
    Dharashauch na kurvita shauchashudh
    Mabhipsta ! Chulukairaiv Kartabya
    Hashtatshudhi Vidhanta !”

    – Urination ought to be done at least at a distance of 10 cubits from the
    source of water. Defecation to be done at a distance of 100 cubits from the
    source of water.
    – At least 40 cubits distance is to be observed while urinating near a
    river or a temple and defecation at least at a distance of 400 cubits.
    – Urination and defecation ought not to be done in running water or
    river. Water should be taken in hand and washed away from the river.

    For different classes: Manusmriti has also laid specific rules for the
    specific section of the society, it says:

    “Aitchhouch grihasthana,
    Divuegun brahmacharyanam !
    Trigunavanaprasthanam,
    Yaitna cha chaturgunam !!”

    Separate rules are laid down for those who are sick or infirm, the following
    shloka makes it clear -

    “Diva shauchalaya nishyardha,
    Partha pado vidhiyate !
    Aarte Kuryad yathashakti
    Shaktaa kuryad yathochitam !!”

    For those who observe celibacy or have renounced the world should observe
    the rules differently.

    – Those observing celibacy should observe the rule twice more intensely
    than the married ones.
    – Those who are in “Vanaprastha” should observe three times more
    intensely.
    – The saints should observe the rules four times more intensely than the
    married ones.

    The above means that all the above rules are for urination and defecation
    in the day time. In the night the frequency of wash etc. is reduced by half.
    If one is travelling the rules are further reduced by half. If one is sick,
    the rules need to be observed as per capacity.

    2009/11/23 intellisurfer

    >
    >
    > I had always this fascination on this subject. As a person with amateurish
    > interest in History, I like to know the sanitation of our ancient people.
    > What kind of toilets they used, how did they wash, was all “business”
    > conducted near lakes and river beds? If some conducted “business” inside
    > forts, towns and cities; then how was it cleaned and drained.
    >
    > Though I have read the “Internet” about these, most of the info pertains to
    > Europeans; and one has to dig real hard to find things about Indians.
    >
    > Sorry, if this subject matter disgusts you.
    >
    > thanks
    > GRS
    >
    >
    >

  • Profile picture of worldofganesh worldofganesh said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Apppappppaaaaa very interesting. 2 much. Not that 2… Too Much :) )

  • Profile picture of svprsk svprsk said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Read this too…

    http://www.ancientindia.co.uk/staff/resources/background/bg17/home.html

    Bathrooms in every house with chutes leading to drainage channels.

    Bathing platforms with drains were often situated in rooms adjacent to the
    wells. The floors of the baths were made of tightly-fitted bricks, often set
    on edge to make a watertight floor. A small drain cut through the house wall
    out into the street directed the dirty water into a larger sewage drain.
    Drains and water chutes in the upper storeys were often built inside the
    wall with an exit opening just above the street drains. Tapered terracotta
    drainpipes were used to direct water out to the street.

    Many houses had distinct toilets, separate from the bath areas. Commodes
    were large jars or sump pots sunk into the floors and many of them contained
    a small jar. Sometimes the sump pots were connected to drains to let the
    sewage flow out and most had a tiny hole on the bottom to allow the water to
    seep into the ground.
    Drains were made of burnt bricks and connected the bathing platforms and
    latrines of private houses to medium-sized open drains in the side streets.
    These open drains flowed into the larger sewers in the main streets which
    were covered with baked bricks or dressed stone blocks. Separate garbage
    bins were provided along the major streets.

  • Profile picture of intellisurfer intellisurfer said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Thanks. A lot talks about personal hygiene. What about the hygiene from a societal perspective? Were they concerned about how the public/common sphere was kept clean? thanks again.

    I take lot of care not to thrust modern/contemporary norms, practices and values to our past. So if I ask questions, they are not judgmental, just curious ones.

    >
    > Read this…interesting…
    >
    > http://www.sulabhtoiletmuseum.org/fact.htm
    >

  • Profile picture of injamaven Kathie said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Did I miss something, or is nothing said about what to do with
    the feces?
    In Changa, GUJ all was left in an attractive line along the side
    of our road each morning.
    Kathie

  • Profile picture of intellisurfer intellisurfer said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Thanks. Any word on how things were done in South India?

  • Profile picture of svprsk svprsk said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Our Vastu Specialist has to tell!
    because there are mentions about toilet locations in Vastu Sastra. Anybody
    has idea when the vastu sastra was written?

    Regard,
    Satheesh kumar R

    2009/11/23 intellisurfer

    >
    >
    > Thanks. Any word on how things were done in South India?
    >
    > regards,
    > GRS
    >
    >
    > — In [email protected] ,

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Kathie, coming back after a break, did not expect to jump in on this dicussion :) )

    Anyway in olden days ash made from burning cow dung was used to cover up and discard faecal matter. There were people who came in every day in the morning with bags of ash and gathered up the faecal matter from each household – they were called ‘thottan’ and ‘lacchi’ (names for profession). Of course these were poorest among the poor and often deemed untouchable with hygeine as excuse. My grandmother created great stir in the brahmin community when she asked our ‘lacchi’ to take bath and come into the house for a navratri day event. In areas with more anglican influence there were septic tanks way back into 60s itself. In other areas the ‘lacchi’ custom was in vogue even until late 70s.

    Malathi

  • Profile picture of intellisurfer intellisurfer said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Looks like your olden days is matter of few decades or centuries. I am looking little beyond that, say 1000 years ago. Or for that matter 2000 years ago? What were the conditions before the Europeans arrived?

  • Profile picture of injamaven Kathie said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Dear Malathi,
    Your grandmother must have been quite a woman!
    Kathie

  • Profile picture of nvpathi nvpathi said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    //
    In other areas the ‘lacchi’ custom was in vogue even until late 70s.
    //

    In my hometown (Rasipuram), I have seen them even during mid 80s. Even after
    that I saw them cleaning the public toilets till early 90s. This custom
    disappeared only from mid 90s.

    Not sure in this thread anybody else mentioned it, Jeyamohan’s “Oomai
    chennai” story describes how the servants helped cleaning the british
    officials..

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    Yes our ‘lacchi’ used to say their family went back 6-8 generations doing the same job.

    Plumbing and water inside homes happened only after anglican invasions, before that people relied on public waterways and wells in their backyards. There are not that many creative ways to dispose human waste when there is no running water – either one used areas near rivers or the system of human disposal in homes.

    Kathie, yes my grandmother was progressive. Her answer to those who called toilet cleaners untouchable was that any human who cleans my waste is not untouchable – he/she is God incarnate.

    Malathi

  • Profile picture of intellisurfer intellisurfer said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    It is my theory that the scavenging/cleaning the toilet system came because of the Britishers. That is one reason I wanted to find what kind of toilets/bathrooms we had 500,1000….yrs ago.

    I read that with the advent of toilets in the European cities during Renaissance; people used to throw out waste water/products out their window. IIRC, “throwing the baby with the bath water” was an expression that came around that period.

    I have Alberuni’s India book. He mentions people who were outside the caste system – he mentions about 7-9 guilds – who I consider doing some of the dirtier jobs (in any period). One of them was killing/skinning animals (leather products). But I do not recollect reading anywhere about people cleaning toilets being mentioned in any traveler’s narrations.

    The above aligns with the possibility that people used the lakes and river banks as an open toilet – thereby requiring nobody to clean the waste.

    So with the advent of modern toilets, a new set of people began doing the particular job and they got entrenched in the existing chaturvarna. Just my theory.

    People, do correct me if I am wrong.

  • Profile picture of ravi_eds ravi_eds said 2 years, 5 months ago:

    any human who cleans my waste is not untouchable – he/she is God incarnate – That is a very interesting line.
    Motherhood is such too right, as fetus does what we speak here, inside the her. Yet she accepts it and loves her child as much.
    Earth is also termed as Mother coz she gives all that she can, yet accepts what we junk on her too.

    Read somewhere online that Harappans had the first toilet (western that too ;-) )

    waking up from hibernation (Detroit is cold)…
    - R

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