Ramanujar (20 posts)

  • Profile picture of mprakas mprakas said 4 years ago:

    All

    I do not have the background or knowledge either to venture into
    the Vaishnavite/Saivaite discussion here or to reopen the same now.
    Last week, I purchased ‘Tirumalai tirudan’ (Divakar)
    and ‘Ramanujar’ (Drama by Indira Parthasarathy). I think there are
    enough discussions on ‘Tirumalai tirudan’ but had a few questions on
    the drama by I.Pa.
    The drama is writted purely from the social/reformist perspective
    and identifies Ramanujar as one of the great reformer of that era in
    so much as opening up the Vaishnava temples for people of all castes
    and bringing the untouchables into the vaishnava fold.
    Here are my questions.
    1. How much of it is historically true?
    2. Before the reformist/dravidian movements of last century, were
    the vaishnava temples open to all castes? This sounded kind of
    unbelievable as I was under the impression that this is not the
    case. But if it is not, is there any historical authenticity to the
    fact that Ramanujar opened the temples for all castes? Why/when was
    it discontinued?
    3.The character ‘Naaluran’ occurs in both the drama and the novel.
    Is he a historical character? Is there any evidence that he was the
    persecutor of Koorathazhwan?
    4. There were references to Ramanujar bringing the
    untouchables/panchamars of the Melkottai into the vaishnava fold.
    Where is this Melkottai? Is this the case even today?

    Moderators, very obviously this is off-topic. But have raised the
    questions anyway. Please feel free to delete the same, if found
    contraversial.

    Muthu Prakash R

    http://sibipranav.blogspot.com

  • Profile picture of sps10142004 sps10142004 said 4 years ago:

    Dear Muthu Prakash & Friends,

    Today is REVERED SAINT SRI RAMANUJAR JAYANTHI ..

    Always this coincides with (KALADI – AADHI) SANKARA JAYANTHI too !

    Pranams to the Great Saints ..

    Greetings for Religeous harmony.

    sps

  • Profile picture of sps10142004 sps10142004 said 4 years ago:

    — In [email protected], “Muthu Prakash R”
    wrote:
    > 4. There were references to Ramanujar bringing the
    > untouchables/panchamars of the Melkottai into the vaishnava fold.
    > Where is this Melkottai? Is this the case even today?
    ================

    MELKOTTAI IS NEAR ( KARNATAKA ) Sriranga patnam …
    (I am yet to visit) ..

    I recall an interesting episode ::

    NACHIARKOIL is located at about 3 Kms south from Oppilaiappankoil
    (Kumbakonam).. Kalgarudan located here is famous.. (pls ref
    Archives).
    Thaayar is prominent.. next to her Srinivasan. Balaraman,
    Anirudhran – Purushothaman are also in the sanctum – apart from
    Brahma..

    Thirumangai Aazhwar has hymned 100 verses here..
    about 10 on Thirukkulam (temple tank), about 10 on Kodimaram
    (Dwajasthambam) like-wise.

    The main door was ( kept ) closed when Thirumangai visited and a Bee
    (from the Garland of Srinivasan traversed between Thirumangai and
    Thayar) because of which the Door was opened…

    These exchanges only formed basis for ARAYAR SEVAI ( Srirangam
    Ranganathar visiting Uraiyur Naachiyar and Ranganayagi getting
    upsetting and NAMMAZHWAR (like the BEE) transversed !! ( We know
    that Thirumangai is of later period to Nammazhwar))

    There were two Vaira mudi (Diamond) in Naachiarkoil and one has
    fallen at NILAKKOTTAI when Garudan carried Thaayar … and from then
    onwards NILAKKOTTAI VAIRAMUDI SEVAI was becoming Prominent… !!

    These details were not given by the Temple Bhattars ..

    But by the Temple Watchman (elderly) MURUGAN who is ardent student
    of (Late) Kannan acharya (of Kumbakonam !) whom I met even last week!
    His son runs the Flower shop in front of the Temple !

    Dear V. Venkatesh .. for more details / corrections pls.

    anbudan /
    sps

  • Profile picture of vinjamoor_venkatesh vinjamoor_venkatesh said 4 years ago:

    Muthu / SPS,

    Indeed whatever you heard/read about Ramanuja opening the temple for
    all the “Thirukkulathar” (Yes, that is what he termed them as… as
    belonging to the Divine Family, to give them the morale boost for
    all the sufferings they underwent) is very true and is history.
    Almost all the historians who had done a research on Ramanuja’s life
    history has confirmed this.

    Looks very rosy. But Ramanuja had to struggle a lot against a very
    dominant Brahmin society to get this done. Though in his mind, he
    was always wanting to do this much earlier, he could not achieve
    this until the Thirukkulathars played a major role in bringing
    back “Selvapillai” to Melkote from the clutches of a Delhi Sultan
    ruler. He waited till this incident and then using this help from
    then as a pretext to silence/convince (yes, “silence” the perennial
    trouble makers and “convince” the neutrals) the opposing Brahmins to
    allow the Thirukkulathars into the temple.

    The fact that Ramanuja was always thinking of this is clearly
    visible from the Thirukkoshtiyur episode, where he gets the Mantra
    Upadesam of Thirumanthiram (Om Namo Narayanaya) from Thirukkoshtiyur
    Nambi, who in turn cautions Ramanuja that this has to be kept a
    secret, and passed only to another “able” successor (the
    qualification for “able” was not the caste, though) as otherwise
    Ramanuja would go to hell. But Ramanuja broke the promise and
    climbed up the Gopuram of Thirukkoshtiyur temple and called all the
    interested people, irrespective of their caste or gender, and gave
    the Thirumanthira Upadesam to all. This is glorified by Manavala
    Mamunigal in his work “upadEsa ratna mAlai” where he says…

    “..pArulagil Aasai udaiyOrgaLukkellAm AriyargAL kURum endRu, pEsi
    varambu aRuthAr pin”.

    The lines are very informative. “varambu aRuthAr” denotes that he
    broke a lineage which was maintaining the secrecy for this Manthram
    and for who did he do it? “pArulagil Aasai udaiyOrgaLukkellAm”!!

    This infuriated Thirukkoshtiyur Nambi and he summoned Ramanuja and
    asked him as to why he chose to put down the caution as he would now
    definitely go to hell. For which, Ramanuja, very calmly with all
    humility, said “swAmin, if I were to go to hell for this reason I am
    ready for it. But all the other souls in the world who heard this
    will definitely get mOksha, right?”. Thirukkoshtiyur Nambi was
    immensely moved and realised the great soul in Ramanuja and embraced
    him and said “em perumAnAr neer”, meaning you are my God! What an
    Emperumanar. And to crown all these, it is said that Ranganatha,
    being pleased immensely with the social reforms and religious
    reforms of Emperumanar, termed the entire Srivaishnava sampradhayam
    as “Emperumanar Darisanam”, meaning the “path”(Darisanam) shown by
    Emperumanar.

    This act itself invited some angst from some of the racially
    inclined Brahmins (I know that this is a very strong term, but the
    facts are always strange and even undigestable), but was able to
    contain them with his ever growing popularity and clout. One great
    example of using the popularity or clout, exclusively for
    constructive purposes.

    After this, with the Selvapillai episode, he finally managed to get
    all the Thirukkulathars into the temple. He also included all the
    castes into the Srirangam temple, and also gave certain duties to
    everyone. “Thennarangar selvam muRRum thiruthi vaitthAn vAzhiyE”.
    This is how Ramanuja’s glory is sung every day by the
    Srivaishnavites in the temple.

    I know that I wrote more about Ramanuja, than about the Nachiyar
    Koil. Let me come to that now. I dont know much about this temple as
    I had never visited this. But the Perumal of this temple is said to
    have done the “Panchasamskaram” (Sangu Chakram Impressions)or
    the “dIkshai” for Thirumangai Azhwar. One can see even today, the
    Moolavar having the Sangu Chakra moulds (not the one that every
    Perumal has)in his hands.

    Regarding Thirumangai Azhwar date being later to that of Nammazhwar,
    it seems that KAN Sastri differs in this view. He holds both to be
    contemporaries, though neither makes a reference to others,
    directly, in their works. I am trying to get this article, but am
    not able to get it.

    For the records I only until the Nammazhwar being a Bee, part as
    indicated by SPS on this Divya Desam. I dont know about the other
    legends. Will get back to you soon on them.

  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 4 years ago:

    :
    >
    > NACHIARKOIL is located at about 3 Kms south from Oppilaiappankoil
    > (Kumbakonam).. Kalgarudan located here is famous.. (pls ref
    > Archives).
    > Thaayar is prominent.. next to her Srinivasan. Balaraman,
    > Anirudhran – Purushothaman are also in the sanctum – apart from
    > Brahma..
    >
    who is Anirudhran. somebody important in vaishnavaite mythology?

    venketesh

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 4 years ago:

    As far as I know Aniruddh is Sri Krishnas grandson. May be some saint also.

  • Profile picture of thiru thiru said 4 years ago:

    Vasudev, Sankarshan, Pradyumna and Aniruddha together were the four
    parts of the doctrine. Here Vasudev is The Supreme God and the Creator
    of the universe. At the beginning of the kalpa (period of time) when
    Lord Vasudev creates an universe along with the unmanifest basic Great
    Illusion (Prakruti), He also creates Sankarshan, a particular embodied
    soul. The mind manifests through the union of Sankarshan and the Great
    Illusion. The mind itself is Pradyumna. It is from Pradyumna that
    elements and their components.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

  • Profile picture of dmaloo dmaloo said 4 years ago:

    Very well said, thank you.

  • Profile picture of vkasirajan vkasirajan said 4 years ago:

    Great! I’ve been going to temples without knowing basics of Hinduism… Does anyone conduct classes on Hinduism principles these days?

    — On Sat, 5/10/08, Humble Groups <[email protected]> wrote:

    From: Humble Groups <[email protected]>
    Subject: Re: [ponniyinselvan] Re: Ramanujar
    To: [email protected]
    Date: Saturday, May 10, 2008, 12:25 AM

    rel=nofollow>http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Avatar

    > R.venketesh wrote:
    >> :
    >>>
    >>> NACHIARKOIL is located at about 3 Kms south from Oppilaiappankoil
    >>> (Kumbakonam) .. Kalgarudan located here is famous.. (pls ref
    >>> Archives).
    >>> Thaayar is prominent.. next to her Srinivasan. Balaraman,
    >>> Anirudhran – Purushothaman are also in the sanctum – apart from
    >>> Brahma..
    >>>
    >> who is Anirudhran. somebody important in vaishnavaite mythology?
    >> venketesh
    >>

    Be a better friend, newshound, and
    know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ“> Try it now.

  • Profile picture of sps10142004 sps10142004 said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    WE – AS GROUP – DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO FOLLOWING VIEWS – UNLESS SUPPORTED WITH EVIDENCE.

    PLS NOTE OUR POSTINGS ARE SEEN WORLD WIDE.. AND SUCH HISTORICAL THINGS NEED TO BE WELL SUPPORTED WITH EVIDENCE …

    WITHOUT SOURCE THIS AND RELATED MESSAGES WILL BE DELETED.

    sps

    ==============

  • Profile picture of rramachandran_1951 rramachandran_1951 said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    Here is the Sourse

    See friends when we are searching for a news we are landing in other deatails which is natural.

    When we are searching History we should be away from religion and caste. Thats what i feel.

    The news I mentioned is available from
    REV. Henry Heras, Studies in Indian History (The Araidu Dynasty of Vijaya nagara) Vol 1; P.G.Paul Publications, Madras 1927. Foot Note Page No 533.

    Will submit the photo copy within a month.

    Hope you will bear with me till then.

  • Profile picture of selvaraj49 selvaraj49 said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    Dear sirYes,Ramnujar was a Saivaite by birth.His wife was Gandhimathi.She hated Thiru kachchi Nambihal,a staunch vaishnavite and  Ramanuja got irritated and drove her out of his house.His first guru ,Yadava Prakasar was also a saivaite.As per Aalavandar’s will ,Periya Nambihal,brought him to Sri Rangam converted him to Srivaishnavism.Thirukoshtiyur Nambihal refused him to accept him as his desciple since he has his own doubts about Ramanujar’s origin.His Siththi’s(his mother’s younger sister) son,Govindan, was serving in the Sri,Kalahasti sivan temple.Ramanujar also converted him.He gave him the title Embar.There are so many evidence to prove that Ramanujar was from a staunch saivaite family.For your information Ramnujar’s prathama guru Periya Namihal Thirvarisle(samadhi) is in Pasupathikoil,very near Thanjavur.(Pullamangai is also here) Sri Perumal  bestowed upon me the task to discover that holy place.N.S

  • Profile picture of sps10142004 sps10142004 said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    Dear Sir,

    very nice.

    definitely we can educate ourselves through such a source.

    will try to look for this book also.

    regards / sps

    =======

  • Profile picture of tmsunder tmsunder said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    Dear SPS-

    This is a healthy topic you should allow free knowledge exchange within group members, not to say who or which among us is great or small.

    Sri Ramanuja is one of the greatest Hindu philosophers who propagated ‘Visishtadvita’ principle as we all know. He belonged to a generation where distinction of Saivaism and Vaishnavaism was not made onlyby birth. He was born in a smartha Brahmin family that believed in both Shiva and Vishnu worship,and a’advaitin’ based on the principles propagated by Adi Shankara. Ramanuja’s philosophy distinguished the self from supreme and accepted Shri Vishnu as the ‘param porul’, a different approach to salvation from the theory advocated by Adi Shankara who believed self and supreme are the same.

    To say Ramanuja was a Shaivite is to say Siddhartha Gautama Buddha, Guru Nanak or Mahavir were Hindus first and Jesus was a Jew. He was a pioneer and a renaissance Hindu philosopher who is a pride of our culture and civilization. For those who believe in his teachings he is a supreme Guru.

  • Profile picture of sps10142004 sps10142004 said 2 years, 6 months ago:

    Dear Sri TMS,

    view of one member ::

    “” Ramanuja was a Buddhist, and he converted to Hinduism. His real name was Ethirajan, meaning ettu+rajan; that is to say he was a protagonist of the eight fold tenets of Buddism. “”

    view of another member – adding rightly we are SEARCHING History ::

    ” …Which read Ramanujar was studying in Sankar Matt in Kanchi and that he assisted Sankarachariar in taking a oil bath… ”

    here is a source :: REV. Henry Heras, Studies in Indian History (The Araidu Dynasty of Vijaya nagara) Vol 1; P.G.Paul Publications, Madras 1927. Foot Note Page No 533.”

    SPS MAILED ::

    very nice.
    definitely we can educate ourselves through such a source.
    will try to look for this book also.

    Now dear TM Sundaram Sir,

    U mailed ::

    ” This is a healthy topic you should allow free knowledge exchange within group members, not to say who or which among us is great or small… ”

    Where comes the need for this observation ?

    When my view is put as that of a Moderator – definitely there is collective view inherent in that – kindly take it for granted. not individual view.

    That accounted for seeking SOURCE for a statment involving – Sri Ramanuja is one of the greatest Hindu philosophers who propagated ‘Visishtadvita’ principle as we all know and WE ALL AGREE TOO.

    When a Source Surfaced I mailed :

    ” definitely we can educate ourselves through such a source.
    will try to look for this book also. ”

    Means not curtailed any discussion !!??

    Hope I clarified.

    regrds/ sps

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