[Hai Madan and well done Kamal (52 posts)

  • Profile picture of sridhar_rathinam sridhar_rathinam said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Dear Kamal…

    Well done … a real saataiyadi for Madan and I think he deserves it for those who havent read Madhans original

    http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=482

    Its here and a reaally good response from Kamal

    Kamla has this been send to Vikatan thats more importnant…

    Mrs Kalavathy

    I shared the same sentiments which you and karthick shared till I encountered all the stallverts in our group …If this isnt histrory what is???

    I think as a tamilian I feel Madan deserves to apologise to Tamils as a whole for belittling our culture …our poets and our kings

    Well done Kamal

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  • Profile picture of corecirculator corecirculator said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Hi,

    The link does not work. I am interested in reading the
    original article.

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  • Profile picture of sridhar_rathinam sridhar_rathinam said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Arul
    if you go to varalaaru.com its in the list of articles
    the original Q and A is there as well

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  • Profile picture of adhitha_karikalan adhitha_karikalan said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Dear SPS, Sri and others,

    Thanks for bringing this to attention of the group and
    your kind words. I havent checked group mails for past
    couple of months. Yesterday i was told about these
    mails.

    The letter was handed over to Vikatan in person by Ram
    and vikatan passed it to Madhan. Also, it was given to
    Mr.Iraiyanbu when he met Dr.Kalaikkovan last week in
    Trichy. At that time, Iraianbu said lot of rejoinders
    were received from readers.

    We dont think vikatan will publish them. They already
    refused to publish our letter on Udaiyaloor
    pallippadai.

    Dear Kalavathy madam and Nandhakumar,

    There are lot of solid evidences to write tamilnadu
    history. It is us who refuse to look at them. Do you
    mean the works of K.A.Neelakanda Sasthiri,
    T.V.Sadhasiva Pandaraththaar, M.Rajamanickanaar,
    K.R.Srinivasan, etc are not authentic? They also used
    the same so called ‘not recorded efficiently’
    evidences. After their era, lot of new findings were
    out and we have much more data to write our history
    perfectly. Those new findings definitely give better
    information than indian summer and mangoes. If
    possible, please read ‘Kaala aaraaychi’ by
    Dr.M.Rajamanickanaar to understand how the chronology
    is fixed for tamil kings and literatures.

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  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    >
    > We dont think vikatan will publish them. They already
    > refused to publish our letter on Udaiyaloor
    > pallippadai.

    people are rather hesitant to publish a contradictory view.
    there has been enough discussions in ponniyin selvan group last week
    to literally demolish the CHOLA PASS THEORY mentioned in a very
    knowledgable article in Varalaru.com
    will varalaru.com publish our views which are contradictory to theirs?

    venketesh

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  • Profile picture of snandaakumar snandaakumar said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Hi Kamal,

    In no way, I am denying or turning a blind eye in the richness of our history & culture.

    A simple question on the Udalayur pallipadai, why cannot we as a group file a PIL saying that JV is publishing a wrong news item there by misleading people? This can definitely pull them up. The information on this PIL can then be sent to competitors of JV and Vikatan group. what say?

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  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    -Hi

    I dont think madan was sarcastic at all. its a sub concious cry of
    anguish.
    the more I think of it the more I think he could have been right

    dont forget nanda. mandan has his own achivements. his one book
    vanthaarkal vendraarkal has sold more copies than all the titles of
    all the historians kamal mentions. thats no mean achievement.
    his contribution to history is that he took it into the houses of the
    common man. if you read the books of these historians you will
    understand they are not for the common man. referenced and cross
    referenced. madans book was the simplest presentation of an era.
    I am sure he would have jumped on an opportunity write a good book
    about the cholas and it would have been a bigger best seller. but he
    has realised one cant. and as one of the sharpest minds in todays
    society we should read more into his answer.

    his reference to mangoes on jahangirs breakfast table was a challenge.
    they have recorded even the king’s breakfast. what do you really know
    about your kings.
    on the contrast our bunch of historians still quote poetry and
    hearsay stories and co incidences in words( like chola pass) to
    substantiate. we dont realise how funny it is to a TRUE historian.

    frankly we cant write more than a page on each battle of RRc.we dont
    even know when he died. we assume the year when his edicts stopped
    appearing. a similar study of such a great king in similar year ( for
    example william 1 of england) has enough matter to write a dozen
    volumes.

    and the contradictions. even the paintng assumed for long to be RRc
    above the big temple is being identified as somebody else by the
    esteemed historians of this group. whereas the copper plates say he
    was old enough to sacrifice the kingdom for his uncle a stone edict
    in thiru koviloor suggests he may have been just a baby when his
    father died.

    pazhuvettaraiyar is a big man for us because we love PS. but it is
    just a chance that you got their lineage intact.and there have been a
    thousand clans like pazhuvur. but the major things are still
    unanswered.
    I can tell you, inspite of all the rheotoric on behalf of the
    varalaaru team you cant write an authentic book about RRC with more
    than 24 pages with evidence available and can be coraborated by other
    sources. even that may be difficult.
    SEASONS PUBLISHING did a book on kings of india and while all other
    kings are written about with solid evidence the author had lifted
    RRc’s story from ponniyin selvan.
    if we start seeing history as a science just like physics and
    chemistry it will not allow us to have a needless sentiment. this
    sentiment is what helps a lot of people go around in the clothing of
    historians.
    venketesh

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  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Stone edicts as evidence

    in a few temples around thondai nadu we have chola inscriptions of
    Raja raja in the walls of the inner sanctum.
    photos of them have been published in our group photos section.
    also there is an edict in each of these temples by one ‘
    THIRUBUVANACHAKRAVARTHI GOPALA THEVAR”
    have you people heard of him? do we take hime to be a emperor just
    because his edicts mention him as lord of the three worlds. he was a
    local chieftan in the naik period.
    it was then that i realised some edicts could be as sychophantic as
    poetry.
    venketesh

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  • Profile picture of rahul_pentiumiii rahul_pentiumiii said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    hi;

    this reminds me of the scene in Imsai Arasan, where Vadivelu is posing for a
    painting of himself but with the body of a wrestler. He says “Varalaaru miga
    mukkiyam amaichare”. The kings of those eras would surely have exaggerated a
    lot when describing thier victories in kalvettu and poems. They would have
    noted down thier victories but would have conveniently forgotten to mention
    thier failures.
    I would like to know whether all Kalvettus are like this or how do we
    authenticate that the kalvettu is historical account and not an exaggeration
    by the sculptor to win gold coins from the emperor?
    If we are not able to trust kalvettu,poems then on what do we base our
    theories upon?The Copper plates? Doesn’t this mean Madan is right?
    Would it be possible for the people who are writing against Madan in this
    group to prove that thier theories are based on findings which are more
    authentic than poems and kalvettus? Can anybody list them?

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  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    > If we are not able to trust kalvettu,poems then on what do we base
    our
    > theories upon?The Copper plates? Doesn’t this mean Madan is right?

    >
    some copper plates I remember from which chola lineage is determined
    traces their history from the sun.
    true all our atoms came from the sun. but isnt that too much.
    we cant even directly and honestly connect the early cholas with the
    later cholas. the gap is 500 years.
    its not the medium that counts, its the sponsor.
    whether its copper plates, or olai suvadi or kalvettu the man who
    sponsors the writing gets a lions share of the publicity.
    kamban himself compared major charecters in his ramayana to sadayappa
    vallal who sponsered his daily expenses.

    recently i attended a book release function.
    Vaali’s poems on karunanithi. 5 poets recited their poems on the cm.
    pa vijay, palani barathi and vaali included. for somebody new to have
    beleived the 5 poets would have made them feel the tamil world is
    surviving only because of his endevour.
    I thought in this modern age this sychophancy works. how it must have
    been in those days.

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  • Profile picture of sn_in sn_in said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Madan was definitely sarcastic. Especially when he
    mentions about poets that they praised the kings for
    money and drinks when there is no need for Madan to
    hang on unreliable evidences. There is a solid
    evidence in these poems that the king and the poet are
    contemporaries and this is big lead to find
    contemporaries.

    Natarajan.

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  • Profile picture of sn_in sn_in said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Venkatesh,

    Listing the challenges in a pesimistic way, is it not
    Madan’s way?

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  • Profile picture of satish_arun satish_arun said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    Natarajan sir,

    Why do you take it as a pesimistic approach? Why cant we try to
    answer these question? I am no way possess any knowledge in this
    subject compared to the stalwarts in this group, and I do have a lot
    of confidence on our rich and long lasting culture and history, but
    when it comes to writing it down, we have to accept some
    shortcomings.

    We should admit that we dont have all the evidences to write Tamil
    history. WE do have a lot of them but they are still not making the
    ALL the needed stuff. I look it on a different perspective. I have
    told this to Venkatesh a lot of times…our history is closely tied
    with Religion. As per our religion nothing is stable and everyone
    accepted it. Everyone had high regards for god and not for humans.
    Thats why none of our ancestors showed much importance to human life
    by recording the history, but recorded the lives of saints
    (eg.periya puranam) and sang the glory of god (tirumurais)…

    Regrds,
    Satish

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  • Profile picture of abhivencat abhivencat said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    > Venkatesh,
    >
    > Listing the challenges in a pesimistic way, is it not
    > Madan’s way?

    Hi Natajan,
    if you stir up your memories you will know this topic did not arise
    after madans answer.
    we spoke about this earlier. you and me.
    in kanchi hotel chingelpet when we had all gone on that trip last
    year during the lunch we had the same argument .
    i almost remember the words. the discussion was what do we really
    know about RRC.his birth? his death? and the time in between.

    well, what do we think are RRcs greatest achievements?
    i as a staunch shaivaite woul rate finding of the thirumurais in
    chidambaram as no 1.
    an architecture lover would rate building the big temple.
    a ponniyin selvan fan would rate his sacrifice of the throne to
    uthama as his greatest achievement. pinnacle of sacrifice is how the
    translated version of PS calls it.

    we all however agree that these three are the greatest achievements
    possible in one man’s lifetime.

    yet they too are clouded in doubt and contreversy.
    BIG TEMPLE why should the upper chambers be incomplete( RRC was a
    perfectionist- rememeber). why was this temple and tanjore almost
    abandoned soon after RRC’s death.
    THIRUMURAI- there are so many theories as to the finding of
    thirumurais. now historians claim the event itself is a legend or
    that rrc was not involved.
    SACRIFICE FOR UTHAMA- there are kalvettu evidences in thirukoviloor
    suggesting that RRC could have been a baby when his dad died. this
    could perhaps explain a lot of things on what he was doing during
    uthama’s reign.he was propably a kid.

    its not that we dont have a history. we have a great one. but then
    the lacuna in explaining them hurts.
    you are a historical fiction writer too. how easy do you think
    gathering info is?

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  • Profile picture of rahul_pentiumiii rahul_pentiumiii said 5 years, 1 month ago:

    hi;
    looking at the lighter side of things its really quite funny that the king
    who the time to build some of the biggest structures in the ancient world,
    conquer far away lands dint have time to just sit down and write about all
    this. All he had to do was spend a month or so during his final years in
    writing or sculpting his life. I find this very very wierd.
    He dint even have to do it himself he could have got somebody to do it.
    Looks like even RRC did not know how great he was and how the future
    generations would admire him.

    The same mistakes are being made even today. Lets compare the ancient
    empires to the business empires of today. Almost every European or American
    businessman or CEO (the really famous ones and the not so famous ones) take
    time out to write books about how they got there, thier life, etc. Jack
    Welch, Gates, Ricardo Semler, Sam Walton, etc. This way people learn about
    thier exploits, mistakes, etc.

    Can you name one Indian businessman who has written a book of his exploits?
    Recently Kokila Ben launched a photograph collection of Dhirubhai Ambani’s
    life but nothing else. Even the incredible Mr. Narayana Murthy has written
    very little about his life. Maybe im not aware of a few biogrpahies on
    Indian businessmen but the truth is the cupboard is bare when we cmpare with
    the Eurpeans and Americans. Thank god Dr.Kalam took time out for recording
    this. Even in Indian cricket Sunil Gavaskar has a biography and maybe a few
    other cricketers but absolutely nothing from some of the most incredible
    talents like GRV (i cant remember reading even an interview from this
    artist), Chandra, etc. Looks like we haven’t learnt anything from our past.

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