Artcle about Raja Raja in Vanakkam Malaysia
  • Respected members,

    I recently came across the above article, which is trying to sling mud at Raja Raja Cholan by highlighting some 'atrocities' he may have committed. Although it appears to have been written by someone with a strong anti Saivaite, anti Brahmin and left leaning views, it does appear to be well researched. Some of the allegations may indeed be true, but may have been par for any king or country in those days.

    However, as it is directly attacking Raja Raja, I think learned members of this group have a duty to give a categorical reply. Otherwise, the factual elements of the article will gain credibility even if they are false. I would like to know your views, please.

    Kind Regards,
  • Respected members,

    I recently came across the above article which is trying to sling mud at Raja
    Raja Cholan by highlighting some 'atrocities' he may have committed. Although it
    appears to have been written by someone with strong anti Saivaite, anti Brahmin
    and left leaning views, it does appear to be well researched. Some of the
    allegations may indeed be true, but may have been par for any king in those

    However, as it is directly attacking Raja Raja, I think learned members of this
    group have a duty to give a categorical reply. Otherwise, the factual elements
    of the article will gain credibility even if they are false. I would like to
    know your views, please.

    Kind Regards,
  • Ennum ethanai nalukkuthan ippadiye kadai vittuk kondu iruppargal.

    Sanga Ilakkiyangali padikkamale oru sanga kalak karpanaiyai uruvakki adhil midandhu kondu irukkirargal.
  • sir,
    there were similar arguments about cholas and RRC (as in vanakam malay...)in the famous novel of sujatha(late) " kandhaloor vasanthakumaran kadhai".
  • infact Sri Balakumaran also has such fantacy. But the fact is different

    I am not arguing for or against any one. My argument is one should not judge past with the current situation. Those brahmadeya people were much different had a very strict and simple life.
  • there is one book by EMS NAMBOODRIPAD(CPM leader- late) history of india. he also says the cholans were ruthless dictators, imperialists and colonialists. it is quite possible and we must be open to discussions. when i was in kerala many keralite historians viewed cholans as no more than vandals. they say cholans weakened keral and led the region to instability. this has facilitated the arab and european colonisation of kerala. the dreaded "ettu veetu pillaimar" regimme" was modelled on the nobility-beurocrats of chola country. the feudal system of kerala continued well into 19th century until the communist uprising. that is cholan destructions could be corrected only after 1000 years. cholans are viewed in similar vein in srilanka too. these two regions were directly bore the brunt of cholan hegemony.

  • Earlier i too had a view that - Cholas should have helped Uttarapada to contain invasions. I too felt that Cholas weakened Bengal and Far east which ultimately ended Indin culture there.

    But later after discussions with people and understanding the situation with further studies I changed my views.

    There issues are not because of Cholas but the Country's poor understanding of the invaders initially.

    aichand onwards till Ettappans - we did that.

    Second mistake wasnot learning from the past and planning just the survival for the day. Jaichand lesson was not understood by the people and repeated by Ramaraya and he too endedlike Jaichand.

    Somewhere from 14th C onwards the religion lost it's flexibility and adoptability and turned very rigid. Vijayanagar did tremendous help for the culture to survive and without Vijayanagar India would have suffered much damage, but Vijayanagar had a side effect ofmaking thereligion rigid. But the situation was not the same earlier. Using the current situation to read the past is not right.

    We may take some points here and there and accuse Cholas but please think what could have happened with out Cholas and Vijayanagar. Problem is not with Cholas but the resultant laid back attitude of the country.

    Last couple of weeks i have been contemplating similliar subject and it is very clear that4 people have protected India and took it to its heights back from the fall. The first 3 are,

    1. Sri Vidyaranya
    2. Samartha Ramdas
    3. Swami Vivekananda

    All the three were wandering Monks who changed the destiny of the Country.

    The 4th, Mahatma Gandhiji is the continuity of this tradition and he is also more Spritual than political.

    It was Sprituality that protected/protecting the country and when that is in danger - the country shakes.

    That is why we should clearly understand our culture/Religion and should not write things which we do not know fully. Such writings make children misunderstand the culture and lead to further detoriation.

    The requirement is currently a spiritual leadership and the primary thing required from us is not writing things that we ourselves have not understood.

    The Author had made such attempts w.o reading the sangam full and early Pallava copper plates.

    There are some reports of Kalabras as followers of the sanatana dharma

    You may feel that on one side i am advocating Government control of Temples and disagreeing with others and on the other hand want the spritual tradition to be intact. But my view is unless the over all spiritual scene is improved and people understand and tradition , it is better to keep the temple with Govt.
  • cholas also weakened the srivijaya kingdom in malaya and that led to arab colonisation of southeast asia.
  • Sir,

    Do you mean,

    Rjc attacked them,

    just for the expansion of his empire?
  • Well said, Sankar. I wish to add only a couple of points.
    As for as reconstruction of history is concerned, one must be careful
    and selective. I put all information into two compartments - facts and
    interpretation. We must always look for adding more facts (and dates as
    per the original calendar and not Julian) and not take the
    interpretation seriously as it is coloured by bias, political conviction
    and sometimes, by sheer malice.
  • sirs,

    the following quote from an article of tamil arts academy, which gives the
    nature of the cholas,

    The inscriptions of Raja Raja Chola II, (1150 CE) found in many parts of
    Tamilnadu, specifically mention that their goal was that every individual in
    their country should feel satisfied that he had a full, free, independent and
    happy life. "Ellorum tanitanniye Vaalntanam ena manam mahilndu", says his
    prasasti. They also wanted to rule in such a maner that there was no hatred or
    bickerings between one life and the other; and one man and the other and that
    they should all live freely and happily with each other.

    It is clear from the above epigraphs, that the Chola monarchs kept in their mind
    the right of every individual to lead a full and free life. They seemed to have
    been conscious that to usher in economic or social equality was an utopian
    ideal, but it was their duty to create practical simple conditions in which
    there will be no hatred between one individual and the other or between one
    section of the society and the other. The emphasis was that such a feeling
    should arise in the mind of every individual. In other words, individual freedom
    was not only recognised but also assured.

    what about these words,
  • difficult to give factual informations. it is possible only to estimate. it is only true that the spoils of war were used to construct the temples in cholamandalam. money from the karnataka campaign was used to pay huge sums to the maravar army and they were living in grandiose style( ref: udayar novel). viswakarmas were very rich and powerful. brahmins and saiva vellalahs were given the status of nobility. isai-vellalahs were made into temple servitude and the devendra kula vellalahs lost their civil rights. they lost all their land rights and were made to toil in the land. social structure was made more stratified. during the kalabrah regime the devendra kula vellalahs were rulers or atleast possessed lands. this was removed by the cholan regime.

    i cant give factual evidence. but this is what i hear from the people in the very heart of chola land(chidambaram). it does not appear to me as exaggerated and looks quite true.

    i live with the unconscious dimensions of the people here. i see that in their minds. i hear them say that from their paraprexes, slip of the tongues, body languages and the etiquettes.

  • Mr, shankar Sir,

    You seem to be pretty sure of the culture of BRAMADEYA CITUZENS. if you have sighted any dgcumentsnplease provide them.

  • The way of life is prescribed by the veda's karma kanda...which I think was
    considered to be the ultimate by the poorva meemamsaks.

    Sri Chandrasekarendhra saraswathi swamigal has given a detailed description
    about this in 'Deivathin Kural', i think first part, though not sure.

    The brahmins led a very tough life, starting their day at around 3-4 in the
    morning with back breaking rituals till late evening. The rituals are spread
    across - self and the society - including teaching not just Veda's but also
    all other fields/sciences including agriculture/business etc. Guidance
    should be given by brahmins to person from every walk of life, to do thier
    profession and duty well.

    Just to quote one example of how tough it was - the agni that is lit during
    the marriage, which should be used for all vedic riturals should not die out
    till the person dies. The same agni is used to light the pyre of the person
    when he dies. Day and night the fire should be protected, adding the fuel to
    it and its a life long process. So the brahmin and his wife can never leave
    their home unattended - for lifetime. This is tip of the iceberg. Above all,
    they should not save for their next time meal and thats why the society took
    care of them for thier livelyhood which was patronized in the form of

    Given the definition of brahmin - I would say, in todays world, there is not
    even a single brahmin.
  • There are a few ( Max may be around 5000) still left out.

    They are spread across TN/ karnataka (50%) - Mostly on the banks of Cauvery and Thampraparani, patronised by Kanchi and Sringeri mutts. The rest all across - UP/Bihar/orissa/Gurat/MP/Maha

    I am fortunate to have one as my family priest - who now moved to the banks of cauvery near thiruvaiyaru.

    Very rarely he moves out for functions that too marriages in my house. During that time - max 3 days, his wife will takes care of the fire. Women have many rights in this worship.
  • Yet another accusation against Cholas (off course Chalukyas also), responsible for severe decrease in elephant population.

    See this link

  • " This is the main reason why African elephants tend to be tuskers (with
    tusks), while Indian elephants tend to have only 10% of its male population
    as tuskers(with tusks) and why the Indian elephant has been decreasing in
    size for the last 1000 years (the average Indian elephant today is
    approximately 6 inches shorter at the shoulder and half a tonne lighter than
    its ancestral counterparts): The ones left in the wild were mostly the
    weaker, smaller males that most probably would've been beaten out in mating
    competitions if the stronger males were still around in the forests, instead
    of the battlefields of India. "

    Non sequitur - it does not follow...

    Many Asiatic elephants may not have tusks, but there's no evidence that
    there were all that many tuskers in ancient times either. As for the smaller
    size compared to their African cousins, that's like trying to find a reason
    that rhesus monkeys are so much smaller than human beings. These are two
    different species, that split into separate paths several million years ago,
    and have faced different evolutionary pressures, making one larger and the
    other smaller. A thousand years is *far* too small a time-frame for
    evolution to act in the way that this guy claims.

    In fact, as far as I know, the biggest drop in elephant populations has been
    in *this* century - there are only about 50000 individuals left...

    And, as seems to be the standard for such discussions, he doesn't cite a
    single one of his claims; "most biologists" - *which* biologists are "most"
    of them? Did he conduct a survey or something?

    I have no doubt that 200 years of war will cause massive amounts of
    ecological damage, but if you make a specific claim, please back it up!

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Top Posters