1. NE India is a very delicate place in the global world of politics. China has been attracted towards that region for a very long time. This no doubt makes the region and the people living there as pawns in the hands of government. After all it is in India's interest to take care of its territory. 2. But the Christian missionaries do not seem to really spread any harmony out there: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_terrorism_in_northeast_india.htm
Essentially it is the control of people through numbers for both political and religious gains.
ulfa or bodo seperatist movements are more regional than religious
even nagaland where the church frequently mediates between the movement and the state the issue is not a christian independent state, but regionalism
history records seccesionist movements have in many cases been other than religion. language, cultural identity and regionalism as well as a non caring central government are primary reasons. bangladesh is one succesful example of a country splitting on language issue.
Yes, there are certainly more reasons than just one reason for things to happen especially separatist movements. The foreign money that is flowing in for certain 'causes' does not augur good for helping the already plagued people.
Be it the Bhutanese Hindus or any other kinds in that region, Foreign Christian Missionaries are using the place to their advantage. Are they to blame for the existing conditions. Not. But they are fishing in the troubled waters and causing more havoc than anything else.
Like I said, it is politics too. The land is geo-strategically placed. And it is doomed to play a role.
Well, I have bee looking at providing some links to substantiate my thoughts that religion - Christianity in particular - is cause of some problems in NE India. So here are some links on Nagaland:
There is nexus between Christian missionaries and Maoists in Orissa and elsewhere.
And last but not least, please search for "10-40 window" and you will understand the systemic pressure India has to encounter; imagine the strain this puts on the fabric of our society. No doubt Kandhamal type incidents occur more frequently when the native (a.k.a Indic) people voice their concerns.
What do they say in tamil "kuniya kuniya dhan koottuvanga"!!!
I agree. Many CEOs, Presidents, GMs to workers , auto drivers, to teachers toHousewives to Panwala. all express strong hindu feelings while talking privately but afraid to open their mouth in public.
It is more in TN, AP, Kerala. Karnataka to some extend is ok.
The collective opinion vs Individual opinion is so different. It may be a Vijayanagar /Dravidian party impact. North had No Vijayanagar and hence felt the pain.
The Hindu Munnani of TN is far better. Nothing that sort in AP.
it is a fear psychosis that these people are trying to build
the head of a rss run school group in chennai which has "temple cleaning" as one of its "socially usefull productive works" tells me "christian and muslim boys actually less OB" in that activity.
funny. in a land where a mosque an be destroyed and a missionarie's family can be burnt aliv somebody from the majority community should be afraid. the fears are as imaginary as your presidents, ceos and auto drivers.
> > It is more in TN, AP, Kerala. Karnataka to some extend is ok. > > The collective opinion vs Individual opinion is so different. It may be a Vijayanagar /Dravidian party impact. North had No Vijayanagar and hence felt the pain. > > The Hindu Munnani of TN is far better. Nothing that sort in AP. > > regards >
I am answeri g for all the 3 mails in this regard.
I travel a lot and have worked in 4 groups. As a student of management do participate in forums.
The CEOs , Presidents of many firms ( I know the name that comes to your mind is Ratan tata, narayanamoorthi -Not fortunate yet to meet them) but many of theother well known I dont want to elobarate much because, while explaining i will come out with more details. ( Pottu Vangidiveengo)
With regard to auto drivers,i aveargetalk to 3/4 auto drivers a day and start the topioc on the stickers in his auto l.Slowly they will come out. Actually it is a reality check.
There is nothing fear we want to create. As for as the changing faith withbelief, i absolutely have no issue. You cannot prevent any one.But the question is what happens after conversion?
If you say Mosque destroying, Burning - then i can also quote killing of swami lakshmananda Saraswathi, Difficulties faced by Ramakrishna Mission in North East, (One of our member associated with them can check and tell- Mutt had published a book on the dangers of conversion. A mission like Ramakrishna Mission sounding alaram is not fear psychosis.)Trial by media etc. In fact with a small number if they could do these, what will happen with big nos is my question?
as far as the others participating, i will write in the evening. have an intresting inncident to tell. But you politely Kothuvangiteengo on RSS hm certifying. Slowly will say, RSS is not against concersion?
Thank you, i dont know about others but i just asked in a light way. I am not interested in any intense religious discussion that are based on basic concept that hindus are cowards and victims of others which is again very very pulicha maavu to grind atleast on this forum.
You may find similar belivers here but if pushing that argument/theory is your goal as it strongly and repeatedly appears to be - you may really find more audience and more debates on Beleifnet.
Dear venkat,To score a point please do not trivialise sensitive issues.If majority community is not careful, they will eventually suffer like kashmiri, bangladesi or pakistani hindus.For one mosque (debatable) destroyed, thousand temples were and will be destroyed (as is happening in Malaysia or bangladesh)If an old hindu missionary is shot in cold blood, that is forgivable. At least the 'burner' is punished and is in prison; the 'shooters' are having more fun looking for more targets.The mosque deserves its fate; when will Mathura and Kasi be redeemed?In this land, only the so called majority community has to be afraid, because it has progressive elements that are more christian than Christ and Gandhi - show the other cheek and suffer mentality.Sampath
i am very comfortable as a hindu. i have absolutely no fear my religion is going to get derailed in this country
the fear psychosis agaist minorities is a typical historical phenomenon. it happened with hitler, it happened with ku klux klan it happened in sri lanka, it happens all over the world.
if we study history properly a hindu muslim conflict is un avoidable, because a muslim king was thrust on a hindu majority. the same works in the reverse in kashmir where a hindu king was thrust on a muslim majority.
.For one mosque (debatable) > destroyed, thousand temples were and will be destroyed (as is happening > in Malaysia or bangladesh)
just wondering in india how many temples were destroyed?
it is when sanker starts posting a dozen cut and paste from other religious sites that others need to respond. but there have been intermittent requests to ban religious discussions
We dont bring religious discussions. you only bring in while writing history.
1. if we study history properly a hindu muslim conflict is un avoidable, because a muslim king was thrust on a hindu majority. the same works in the reverse in kashmir where a hindu king was thrust on a muslim majority.
Kashmir was first lost by Hindus beacuse of invasion and subsequently even after a secular Government at Center, Hindus were driven out of Kashmir. Venkat sir feels that Kashmir was thrust with Hindu King ( Governor/Central Govt) and hence we should free them. Excellent.
2. You say kashmir where a hindu king was thrust on a muslim majority. We say how many more Kashmirs and NEwill be allowed tobe created?
3..For one mosque (debatable) destroyed, thousand temples were and will be destroyed (as is happening in Malaysia or bangladesh) just wondering in india how many temples were destroyed?
Sir, In Malaysia / Bngla/ Pak even churches are destroyed. No connection with the destruction of one mosque sir. Now which one you advocate? You want a Bangla/ Malay to happen or an India to survive? we feel india is surviving because of Hindus. No Hitler.
As a historian you have confirmed Chidambaram and Madurai destruction. We do not want a repeat.
4. it is when sanker starts posting a dozen cut and paste from other religious sites that others need to respond. but there have been intermittent requests to ban religious discussions.
That started happening only as a reply sir..
5. The discoherence: Sir we are openly saying that " when you require Dr Nagaswamy, Iravadam Mahadevan, Thevaram are referred and but when you want to preach a different thing you ignore them" We are sayingthe same thing to youon coherence.
6. Ego: sorry sir. If you say ego- i can only laugh.
7. but there have been intermittent requests to ban religious discussions. know why you want no ban on religous discussions. you will have pretty less to say We also requestingYOU towrite half truths of religions while writing sir. While writing history, please do not bring religious things which you cannotsibstantiate. Many of your passing remarks onlycreated issues. We are raising our voice and stating that your religious statements are derailing the forum.
We object to your unsubstantiated refernce to the Hindu Religion.
8. Shankar:. Is he the only person objecting ? Is he a lone voice.
as usual selective quoting -kothu vangal. . I will not go that extend of cutting other mails from Target 500, or from other subjects to show what people feel.
If you really want to do a kothuvangal
You can take out my appeal to you from old mails.
For your sake i am reproducing it.
" we came hear to learn history but your selective writings made us ending up writing"
Since you have quoted names - will like to quote sampath sirs reply to you on this subject Dear venkat, To score a point please do not trivialise sensitive issues. But you have picked his views from another mail. As usual kothuvangal and selective quotings.
I Can reproduce many such mails by other peopleon the misquoting of Hinduism in the writings. There are many .My mail understand our concerns is for you only.Please donot selectively quote on Hinduism while writing history.
I guess that paragraph can be counted as reaching the heights of insensitivity of the majority. You are talking about the same land where temples have been demolished and the majority are threatened too.
I get a sense of cats closing their eyes and concluding the World has turned dark.
Hi Grs you speak as if you are the voice of the majority. the majority includes voices like us too. a simple point of logic it was not an insensitive point.with such acts isnt it the minority that should feel insecure?
and anyway i think religious topics are derailing the group. so i am free to discuss it in private mail.
venketesh
p.s we are getting insensitive to the majority of the group by now.
Wrong. I no where claimed I was speaking for anybody. Neither is my tone in that fashion. So your accusation is blatantly FALSE.
I no where have claimed or denied you or others to being part of any majority; for that matter I have not attributed you or others to any particular group. I gave my opinion on your particular post (and other posts).
I do not know if it is a simple point or not; but by stating your point you ignored other points. It is a logical fallacy. I do not know if it meets this criteria: http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/exclus.htm
It is like: Fact 1: A did something to B Fact 2: A did something to C Conclusion: B and C have grievances against A.
Sure, but you miss the other facts, no? Fact 3: B did something to A Fact 4: C did something to A.
If you had included facts 3 and 4, then the conclusion would be different. A would have grievances against B and C too.
I am pointing out that your conclusion is hence hasty or does not taken into account all facts. By way of me pointing this out, it automatically does not make me agree or disagree with your conclusion. Fact 1 and Fact 2 are facts, so your conclusion is partly correct. No way will I deny that.
For the record, I have not slighted any particular religion either.
Hitler was an aryan (claimed) christian majority dictator and he vowed to decimate minority jew vermin and succeeded in wiping out a large population of jews in short period of ten years. All muslims (O.K. majority) want to wipe out Israel of the face of the earth. They survive and hit back is a miracle. The Iranian president has said that there was no holocaust and a conspiracy by zionists to hoodwink the world. That is history. Where do the Hindu majority and minority stand in this scenario? ku klux klan is a right wing (stereotyped as all all hindu sympathetic clans are clubbed) decided that all blacks and non-whites are inferior races, and indulged in random attacks of their perceived inferiors. Where do we fit in this category - majority or minority? Srilanka is a peculiar case. I believe the starting point of the conflict (may be there are other historical reasons) when Sinhala was made compulsory for government jobs and the sinhalese were given a 10% advantage in marks for university admissions. Of course, as per present grapewine, most of the LTTE members, funders and sympathisers are christians. Different kettle of fish. How do hindu majority and minority compare with srilankans? Frankly I am confused with the comparison. Sampath just wondering in india how many temples were destroyed? Lot of published material Evn today, a book on temples destroyed in kashmir, is released by swamy Ramdev.
Hitler was not a christian majority dictator, he was an atheist. Revenge, revenge, let's hear it for Revenge. All great religions encourage it, don't they! [hope you can hear my sarcasm]
its really timely you clarify about Hitler....Two days ago was the Rememberance of Aushwitz day Remembering what man kind did to man kind...
Having been to Aushwitz .....It was really bad to see the place...But I guess I could stomach it better having been to Dauchau a few years ago...amazed hoe this could exist 10 kms outside Munich...
An Indian was gassed in Dachu...Princess noor Inayat Kahan who worked as a double gaent for the British
SRi
If I can stop one heart from breaking,I shall not live in vain; If I can ease one life the aching,Or cool one pain, Or help one fainting robin, Into his nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson