Please do no mock the seriousness of this esteemed group. We would be more than happy to see a good thread of history / historic fiction than an avalanche of such. Please do your bit to constructively assist the content of discussions.
ennadhu vel vel aaa???? chera mannargalum vel vel vetrivel ennru soli dhaan porukku senraargalaa??? appadiyaanaal hindu madham keralaavil thondru thottu irukkiradhaaa???
There are many members new and old, who chose to receive individual emails in their mail boxes and expect genuine content. They are bound to be cheesed off by these interactions and many unsubscribe or even exit. Hence my request to please restrict psvp forum to serious interactions. Its tough to run through all this chaff to spot the grain. In this process lets not loose valuble discussions and members
On the occasion of Swami Vivekananda's birthday being celebrated as National Youth Day in India, I would like to share an essay, an all-time favorite of mine, on Youth by Samuel Ullman, in the foll link
Finding good mails of the lot...I accept to some extent.
But people leaving the group because of these...come on give me a break. intha pulicha mavaye evvalavu naal araipeenga...
I have subscribed to nearly 7 or 8 groups. But after subscribing i have never even ventured into those groups. I am still a member of those groups and those moderators will be counting me too as a member and will feel proud that they have 1000000 memebers. But the fact is I dont even know what that group is about. I follow only PS group.
Not because PS is the greatest group in the world. Just because its the first group I joined and I feel a bit comfortable, because I got to know a few good friends here.as simple as that.
People who want to stay will stay at any cost (like me) and people who want to leave will leave,whatever you do. I do accept that, when aruguements go personal, people might get offended and leave the group. I also can say that, because of the moderation of this group, people are leaving. can you prove or disprove this. There is no fairness in the group and hence people are leaving...can you prove or disprove...
If you dont want people to leave, I have solution. close the group. Only if people are there, they will leave. If you close the group, there will be no one to leave. so you can be happy that no one is leaving.
Coming to the point - even though you can treat my mail as junk, I have highlighted a big issue there. Whenever its about Hindu sentiments, there is no moderation. But for other religions why a heu and cry? We all say we are behind TRUE HISTORY. Then why discussion on some subjects alone are sensitive and not others? Then whats the difference between the politicians, armchair historians and us.
I have been highlighting these in the past too. Offlate, Mr.Sankaranarayanan has openly asked several questions on these. But none of the moderators replied. why? I might have been more generic, but Mr.Sankaranarayanan is very particular and quotes references. He wrote a mail in lines like - when its convinient to you, you quote, Dr.Nagasamy and others, but when it is not, you say even great historians ar enot 100% true. when convineint you quote appar and sambandar, when not, you neglect them saying its myth. why such hypocrisy. I go by a simple rule of thumb - if one person finds fault with me, then it might be his fault. If a second person finds fault with me for the same reason, then its my fault.
I am restricting myself from writing in this group. People who know me well, knows this. That my mail count has drastically decreased. Infact, I stopped writing altogether last april after the mail you wrote. But after 5 months, due to popular demand (!!!???? Dhivakar - sirikadhe...nisamapppa....)i started writing, but I started with a resolve that, I will not write anything on the subjects and only will write silly, pakkavadyam or mokkai mails. I have been continuing that for almost a year and this is my first serious mail in this group in almost a year now.
I thought of even leaving the group, but didnt. Now I am thinking again. The reason for me to stay is simple...I have some real good friends here and I respect them. as simple as that.
Last but not least...why is that I alone became a scape goat to you and no one else? I am asking this, because this not happening for the first time.
I am not against anybody.I am not wanting to hurt anybody. I am feeling the way history is rewritten nowa days.I am in Pondicherry today.
Hereone fresh campaign. The south tower of Chidambaram temple is closed because Nandanar entered through that. (The tower is closed for safety.) Infact Sambandar enterd through that tower. One who called himself Kounian Sambandan, Nanmarai Sambandan.
How much more the history is going to suffer in these writers hand.
Personally i respect all faiths and their holy men. I dont think that the realised souls are the monopoly of Hinduism and all faiths have great people.
Muruganandam... unga per sonnale vanthiduvene :) ithule vetri vel ellam ethukku :)
Seriously though:
PS as satish says, is a place where we find real contributions. People who find value will stay.
Just in this marriage discussion, how many ideals are coming through? We all know the format and many of us would have questioned it in our minds but when the astrologer walks in with a 10 point mapping, that becomes more priority than the people in question - have we ever thought how astrology works/does not work (scientifically - logically - reasoned)?
Tomorrow our generation will fight tradition with reason / science and logic - and if we have to find ourselves to survive that onslaught we better be prepared. If not, be ready to see converts to more accommodative areas. History has taught this before - many off shoot religions / non believer movements etc.
Ex: Idol worship is scorned by many as specific to hindus, well, go to a church and you will find a cross, if that is not an idol - what is? I dont blame them and I don't care what others do, but do we have a reason and logic to this idol worship that we can counteract ?
PS talks about various aspects of history and has a value add to the society, as a reader, I have a wealth of information, history, fiction and science to talk to the younger generation.
Without religion history will not be there or even if it was, would be very poor. Almost all kings were controlled by one or more religious leaders.
It just cannot be separated. But now a time has come to protect our values and do some 'house keeping' so our children - future believe in the art of living with nature and preserve the culture.
I do understand what you are telling. But at the same time, the group is meant for the members, isn't it? Everyone loves to have fun once in a while. As Satish says, we have forged some very good friendships through this group. We discuss, educate and enrich each other and we also have fun!!! Pl refer to the Archives for messages during the period of June 2005 and for almost a year thereafter. There will be jovial mails and also some real pearls. That is all I can say.
Satish, Well Articulated. This group has a mix of people who have deeper knowledge on history and few who are eager to learn. Some threads are bound to be serious and some for fun. With members crossing 2000+, we will have a mix of both. Actually The fun part drives more affinity among members (unless one is a true ummana moonji). Without that fun, it will be boring to read just threads of long long mails on just subject matter !!
I have seen few mails targeting individuals and being very caustic. That will affect sentiments of others even if they are not directly involved in the conflict. Request members to be careful before dismissing an individual's contribution.
As swetha has said in the other mail, there will be fun and there will be substance.... Take the substance and we should move on with the fun.
i had written to mr dhiwakar when he sought even adra sakkai mails and quoted sps sir. you had commented about us moderators and hence had written to you explaining. so there is no question of targeting you or a hidden agenda.
i too hv met a lot of friends in psvp and we mutually value our relationship.
reg moderation - on topics we do look at sensitive issues not just to current viewers but since the contents are indexed and available on the web for alter viewing, we advocate some forethought before posting.
as moderators we do see new members signing up and they do give reasons why they sign up. what do you think is the most popular reason - fascinated by ps and thirst to know about history. its my humble suggestion to stick to the core tenants of the group. there are many groups in facebook for ps and believe me the quality of members and content of this group is second to none.
On your question on me being selective in my replies, there are two reasons.
one> i am just back from a 3 week break in India. found time to meet a lot of interesting people and many wonderful sites. i am still collecting my thoughts and documenting my efforts.
secondly, i dont profess to be an expert in everything under the sun but am pretty serious about my chosen field and now restrict myself to learning more about it.
I am able to see where Satish is coming from - and i remember quite clearly an earlier incident in which he shared similar views as Sri Sankaran (that history had been unfair to hindus versus other relgions) also involved strong religious passions that some of us agree with and some of us don't. In one line that is the core reason for differences - some of these things are too personal for some members and not so for others. Sometimes we cannot have the cake and eat it also. We must either choose a liberal stance or a more personal right hindu stance, cannot be both. I being a known liberal actually stopped writing a very long time for this reason only - i believe everyone has a right to their views and religious views are taken very personally by many people.
I started writing only after Ravi's request and think it is time to take a break again. A request to both Satish and Sankar - the beauty of hindusim is the range given to anyone for their beliefs. Even athism is supported within hinduism. I do not have to wave a flag to show i am a hindu or take offence because some idiot zealot is showing anti hindu slogans or believe in same guru as others do or tie a thali to show that am a hindu. Besides there are lot of non hindus also mostly other than KAthie nobody is vocal. In short esp Sri Sankar please try to take religious issues less personally and avoid one liners chiding moderators for not supporting such views.AS a liberal I will keep mine also down to minimal as possible (it is my own initiative not any moderator sponsored or requested).
Swetha hails from a highly traditional & affluent family and during thanjai visit - Swetha's father insisted that we have fud over there.. We could not.. had biscuits and tea ...
He showed us around ... Such a great yet very simple personality.
To put it very mildly and subtly - Swetha was groomed from an Anthapuram !! Such a Princes.. He himself is lover of PS and has been asking me queries re Adithakarikalan murder etc. Was ready introduce our Group to Thanjai Prince HH Bhonsle ...
Swetha has named her son as : ANIRUDH !! Like I named my daughter as Nandhini.
Dear Swetha,
Sankaran was another fire-brand. Now heading his Company in Director Capacity in Banglore.
It is time to celebrate - after your direct mails - after about 4 months of PS meet mail flow during August.
Glad to have Satish back in Chennai. With Dhiwakar and Satish around proposed Marina meet will be a great event. Probably that is what Swetha meant that Sankaran's absence is felt.
Yah.. we have a wonderful team and are like well-knitted family.
Dear Vijay,
Dhiwakar I know for the past almost 5 years now .. No issues at all...
Himself and Krupa are capable of putting FAST BLOOD in the Group... .. once a while ..
Fortunately, you don't miss anything. The 'thanglish' posts are are for mutual consumption - pats, slangs, colloquial, and utterly ignorable. Of course, for the concerned souls they are fun. Sampath
>> refer to the Archives for messages during the period of June 2005 and for almost a year thereafter. There will be jovial mails and also some real pearls. That is all I can say.
Swetha,
Good to see your mails again. While mentioning the mails of 2005, I wish you also mentioned the period of Nov 2005. Old members might remember,but not many know what happened 'behind the scenes'.
So a bit of PS history to the history buffs....
anbargale, nanbargale....PS varalaatril mudal murayaga (Friends, First time in the history of PS..).......jokes apart....
As we (old timers) often quote, 2005 second half was a golden period of the group. Volleys of mails on all topics under the sun. During such hyper active discussion, there arouse a similar situation, where people started putting restrictions on what mails to be wrote in the group.
Result...the group came to a grinding halt and for almost two months there was no major activity in the group. Suddenly all the mails ceased and none of the active members wrote a single line. The cream of the group (who were, was, is and will be active) was missing in action. Even SPS did not know the reason for this, till the time we all met for a get to gether.
Even the passive, moderately active old timers, till date do not know the reason for this silence. Frustrated with the moderation (or rather the restrictions laid out) our 'thanga thalaivar' Venkatesh (annaiku oru puratchi pannitu innaiku moderator ana appuram same side goal podareengala?? ungalukke ithu koncham overa illa? :) enna kodumai saravanan ithu...neengalum arasiyalvathi ayiteengala?) started a new group. And the result, the cream of the group became active in the new group and all the mails were flowing there, as a result PS group was totally deserted.
Then, when SPS came to know this after a month or so,he felt really bad and made a compromise formula by which we all came back to PS. annaiku naanga thirubi varalaina, PS groupukku sangu oothiyiruppanga sir...
Dear Satish/Diwakar/Swetha/Venkat and our respected SPS,
As Satish pointed out, in 2005 unnecessary incidents surfaced and with the effective leadership of SPS we as a group sailed through. To avoid this, let me put forth a solution, ie., we will have SPS as our Chief Moderator (like Niruvana Thalaivar - Founder Leader). We can have group of moderators elected by group members. Again this is not an issue of politicising or dividing, if we face situations like we all will have a feeling that the elected representatives are governing the group.
This will take our group into a new level wherein we can boast of operating in pure forms of democracy. One more thing we can achieve is, if we have polls to have moderators elected, then the TRUE & ACTIVE PARTICIPATING MEMBERS LIST will be exposed to one and all. Only that number is a real strength of the group.
Above is my humble suggestion and I will leave it to the elite to review/criticise/implement (if required). No negative issues/vibes should spread through.
Secondly, we can even think of chaning the group name into "Son of River Ponni's Forum" to make it truly global :)
I dont think you are able to see where I am coming from...
Liberal thinking doesnt mean that one should always oppose others and raise questions about evrything. I never questioned anyone criticizing the aspects of Hinduism. All I am saying is, when Hinduism is criticized and it is allowed in the name of history,why restriction on criticizing other religion's history? We cant change what happened...let it be hindu or christian or muslim history. Our sanskrit is the best langauge to denote things...'Ithihaas'...meaning ..it happened this way.
If we say we are liberal and behind TRUE HISTORY, then while allowing discussion on Hindu customs and other things, one should allow discussion on How Hinduism suffered or rather what other religions do/did in India. Why should we brush it under the carpet in the name of harmony? There was long heated discussion as whether Ramayana and Mahabaratha happened..no one qeuestioned it. If we start discusscussing, whether Jesus came to India, then its banned because it will hurt someone's sentiment...enna koduma saravanan ithu....
No one is getting emotional or passionate about their points. I am offcourse proud to be a Hindu,but I do respect others religion as well. If you put forth your points, you are liberal, if we put forth our points, we are passionate...wow...nalla logic...I have lots to learn from this group on 'logic'.
Whether one accepts or not....Indian history is HINDU HISTORY.If one cannot understand this, then they have not even moved an inch in the subject of Indian History.
> Whether one accepts or not....Indian history is HINDU HISTORY.If one cannot > understand this, then they have not even moved an inch in the subject of > Indian History. >
great sathish
so we brush away buddha, mahavira, ashoka, mahendravarman, and a hundred other achievers under the carpet.
history is a record of what happenned and not just what you like.
pray, tell me what is the hindu history of the last 1000 years. you want to imagine our kings were victorious in their fight against islam or atleast if they wee united. the dirty truth is no, our hindu kings colloborated with the muslim invaders at all stages. just to pay their hindu cousins back
SAtish, i think your last line summarizes the crux of the issue and Venkat appears to be answering it. Indian history is not hindu history might be pertinent to say hindu history forms a major part of indian history.
Your issue appears to be more with moderators than with me. Regardless i will say a few points - one the hallmark of too much sentiment is the inability to accept shortcomings of one's own relgion - such as for example explaining tonsuring of widows as a non hindu thing instead of saying yes that was a problem in our culture that was largely corrected later. Two, excessive attack on other relgiions be it true or false can easily twist the forum from a history to a religious one and also bring in more zealots and therefore more outside monitoring. Do bear in mind even the recent 'undie bomber' was a zealot blothigger and they found all his posts.
I will leave it at this as of now, am not participating as i do not wish to make the moderators job harder than it is as of now with passion overflowing like 'pongaloooo pongal' :))
Thanks Venkatesh for the enlightenment....I always know that I am a block head and this forum is full of Stalwarts..
All along, I was thinking Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism are offshoot of Hinduism. I thought without Hinduism, these religions could not have bloomed. You have enlightened me that it is not so.
I thought Ashoka was hindu and converted to Buddhsim, but now I realize he was a christian..
I thought Mahendra was a jain and converted to Hinduism, now I realize he converted to Islam but being a secularist built all the Shiva temple.
Dwaraka has been excavated long back and the period of mahabaratha has been to extent proven. But now I realize Dwaraka was a Jewish kingdom.
I thought Gupta, Vardhana, Hoysalas, kanishkas, gangas etc. were Hindu kingdoms, but now I understand that those were Buddhist or jain kingdoms.
I thought Arthashastra, Aryabatteeyam, Leelavathi were HIndu scriptures, but now I realize those were jains. Even recently they are saying Tirukural is Christian literature. Its matter of time before the truth is established that Kalidasa, Kautinya, Aryabatta et al were also christian scholars.
I was all along thinking that the vijayanagara kingdom was just 500-600 years old. But since you say that there is no Hindu history for the past 1000 years, it should be true and probably Vijayanagara empire was a islamic kingdom.
I was thinking the Rayas, nayaks, marathas, Rajputs, bosles, etc were Hindu kings, but now I realise I am wrong.
Maybe all the temples we find today were once, samana or buddha temples and the vested interest Hindutva forces converted all of them to Hindu temples.
>>you want to imagine our kings were victorious in their fight against islam or atleast if they wee united. the dirty truth is no,
As you said, History is truth...its not about victory or loosing. whether a king wins or looses, his culture will not change.
As Narendra bacame swami vivekananda by a single touch of Ramakrishna, I am enlightened today by a single mail of yours.
Now I am clear and understand that Indian history for the past 10000 years can be written without any mention of the word 'Hindu'. As I always say, I learn a lot from this group and today I learned the greatest truth of my life.
Hope this mail is not blocked/moderated as Dhiwakar's mails, because I like to expose my ignorance to the group and apologies for all the nonsense I wrote.
And, I am 100% not emotional while writing this mail. I meant each and every word. :)
> Hereone fresh campaign. The south tower of Chidambaram temple is closed because Nandanar entered through that. > (The tower is closed for safety.) Infact Sambandar enterd through that tower. One who called himself Kounian Sambandan, Nanmarai Sambandan.
south tower of chidambaram closed? from when.
are you sure you are not talking about the south entrance of the temple?
venketesh
> > How much more the history is going to suffer in these writers hand. > > http://www.indianetzone.com/4/chidambaram_natarajar_temple.htm > > > Personally i respect all faiths and their holy men. I dont think that the realised souls are the monopoly of Hinduism and all faiths have great people. > > Regards > > Sankar > >
all four gopurams of chidambaram are accesible. the main temple has ony west and east entrances. the sotuth door behibd the dance hall is walled up. we still have steps leading to it from inside. i think you are talking about it. when did you visit it last???????
shanker I think you should get your geography right before your history
i am surprised at your spontaneous jumping into such issues.
please visit the place , without visualising from a distance. in such a public forum full of learned experts your saying of south tower closed would be viewed with distaste. the bigger issue is taking over of the temple by the government . what did you and your friends do for it?
As far as taking over of the temple by Govt, i fully support the decision for the follwoing reason.
a. I appreciate the roll of HRCE in the recent 10 years. Lot have been improved. Things are much better.
b. The Deekshidars even before take over lived on the support of the patrons.
I support the take over.
Sir, When you start an issue you dont feel whether it is an appropriate forum ( you have only started that will anadal, nammalwar and Kannappan will be allowed to touch) but when we want to reply on the Sivachariyar's history, you move away.
Hi Shanker this group provides an audience of very qualified people all over the world. all two thousand an achiever in his or her own field. their deep interest in ponniyin selvan brought them together . these people i tell you want indepth details on all discussions. you went to chidambaram 2 years back, saw posters in cuddalore pondy , and tell us you have enlisted in that agitation. there are historians in this group who have analysed the chidambaram temple's history inch by inch. do you think this adds to their study. now you tell us things have improved in chidambaram temple after hrce take over. please let us know of the improvements. long mails or high frequency of mails dont count in this forum.they are seldom read. we are looking for details.
we also like long discussions and jumping from one topic to another. we also dont like cut and paste from other sites. we like original materiel other than references like wiki.
dont just keep harping that we are dissalowing topics. please chanelise your energy in information for all of us.
dont understand what you say. one thing is sure. You are a good story writer. Thanks for not saying that " you say HRCE is doing a good work in recent 10 years but Chidambaram was taken over veryrecently"
i did not question anybody's achievement in their field. Questions is only on History. With regard to original material , i agree. They are high class ORIGINAL and dontwant any arguments because they are original.
chidambaram temple has a structure which has been discussed in detail even in this group. there is a difference between a tower and an entrance. there is no evidence that sambanda entered thro the south entrance though he entered thro the south tower.
if you read your mail on chidambaram agitation anyone can see you do not know head or tail of what is closed and what is open.
what you are doing is plain propaganda.
as far as improvements in chidambaram temple, you cant name any. the temple seems to be running just as it was earlier. the hrce is keeping a quiet profile as far as rituals or dikshitars are concerned. except for the thiruvasagam incident nothing has happened to disturb the tranquility of the temple. there are members here who live in chidambaram, visit chidambaram, and have researched chidambaram
its plain obvious to all of them how little you know on that topic.
why dont you concentrate on your strengths rather than such things
I simly said that there is a propaganda that the south tower ( meaning the entrance through the south tower) is closed because of nandanar. Saw posters 3 days back.
You wanted to know what was my reaction to the take over. I said i support. Now you say
the temple seems to be running just as it was earlier. the hrce is keeping a quiet profile as far as rituals or dikshitars are concerned.nothing has happened to disturb the tranquility of the temple. - Is it not Good? Do you want them to interfere?
Sir, instead of fighting with me on entrance na gopurama vasalanungarathukku badila ennangarthuku badila, propaganda panravangalukku poi badil sollunga. Adu Nandanar vandaunal moodlainu sollunga. - major ( instead of arguing with me on whether it is tower or entrance argue with propaganda people. Tell them that it is not closed because of nandanar)
Illapapa ivanungalukkellam badil solla mudiyadu nu sollunga othukkaren. major - (If you say that we cant reasonout with these people and i will accept that line)
I leave it to you. No further reply from me on this.