I was curious to find out how many chola kings were on the throne in their last century of rule
we expect many kings to have ruled during a period of decline. we expect strife and warring within the family. but it was not so.
only 3 kings have ruled for the last 100 years
Kulothunga Chola III 1178-1218 Rajaraja Chola III 1216-1256 Rajendra Chola III 1246-1279
then I checked up with the mughals too
similarly only 4 kings have ruled in the last century of their rule.
Alamgir II, b. 1699, ruler 175459, Shah Alam II, b. 1728, ruler 17591806, Akbar Shah II, b. 1760, rulr 180637, Bahadur Shah II aka Bahadur Shah Zafar, ruler from 183757,
does this tell us there is a link betwen longevity of the monarch and the riot setting in??????
In wikipedia it is quoted that even from the period of Kulothunga I the trouble that the chola's going to get in future was evident. He lost Lanka, much of Vengi and nothern part to hoysala's. I think with kind of diversity we had in those days, even an year of ruling would have been achievement, let alone 400 years.
if there was one force that was majorly responsible for destroying chola power it was the kadava dynasty
read this extrct
Kadavas, who must have been minor chieftains under the Cholas, began to raise their power during the reign of Kulothunga Chola III (1178- 1218 CE). Kopperunchinga I (reigned c.1216 - 1242 CE), who was related to the Cholas through marriage, was an officer in the court of Kulothunga Chola III. When the Pandya army invaded the Chola country in 1216 CE, Kopperunchinga I strengthened his position by garrisoning the town of their power until Kopperunchinga I could defeat and imprison the Chola king Rajaraja Chola III with some help the Lanka king Parakrama Bahu II. Under the reign of Kopperunchinga I's son and successor Kopperunchinga II (c.1243 - 1279 CE), the kadava power further expanded. H The last Chola king Rajendra Chola III (1246-1279 CE) came to power with Kopperunchinga II's help. Their relationship was one of alternating friendship and hostility.
1. Bharathavarsha comprised of several desams, small or big, but with a common thread and culture, with lot of local flavours and variation. 2. Most of the kings swore to rule strictly following dharmasastras (whatever they may be). 3. People were free to move and settle in any part of akhanda bharath. 4. All those with education and skills were respected and honoured by the kings and were encouraged to settle and pursue their vocation. 5. What percentage of population was mobile? It is an interesting thought.
Can we call EU as a single country as all member states have a common currency and , freedom to move and work anywhere? Even Europe comprised of many small kingdoms.
Hi the same thing was true of the princely states 1900-1947
so many born in pudukottai a princely state studied in trichy british india many here know more about satyamurthy. he was a pudukottai citizen but managed to be a minister in madras province.
Difficult as it may be to find a satisfactory scientific explanation for it, the fact remains, and it receives ample confirmation from the general course of history, that the chief dynasties throw up for a time a succession of very able rulers, that this succession occurs generally in the earlier part of the dynastic history, and no dynasty flurishes for more than a limited number of generations. the relative importance of the western and eastern calukyas and the colas about ad 1000 froms one of the numerous illustrations of this general rule furnished by the course of indian history.
just look at that with a mathematical point of view.
4 kings ruling for a century means 25 years reign for all
perhaps came to power at 40 and ruled till 65.
those days at that age you want to relax anf nor go for a war. the fiery ambition so inhernt in princes -aditya karikalan is absent. the fire quenched.
so kingship becomes a glorified clerical job
so when other powers challenge its more easier to co operate and compromise than fight it out
koperunchikan a minor kadava chieftain held the chola king and his court captive for 2 years
later chola kings sought the help of kadava kings - kopernchikans son in fact to hold onto the chola throne.
venkat wrote: > > perhaps came to power at 40 and ruled till 65. > > those days at that age you want to relax anf nor go for a war. the > fiery ambition so inhernt in princes -aditya karikalan is absent. the > fire quenched. > > so kingship becomes a glorified clerical job
Hi venkat, what age did RRC and RJC come to the throne. again comes to question of their date of birth.
RRC crowned 985 ( shares throne with Uttama till 987) RJC crowned 1014 ( co regent 1012)
we need to get a fix on the date of birth somehow
958 Sundara chola crowned 959 Chevur battle - against pandya/srilanka army 969 AK assasination ( what was RRC age at that time??) 970 UC crowned ( RRC age again) 973 Sundara chola demise
and continue
985 RRC crowned ( shares throne with UC) 987 UC demise/dethroned 993 RRC Srilanka campaign 994 RRC kerela /chera campaign ???? Maldives campaign 999 RRC conquest of Gangapadi and Nurambapadi ( karnataka) Gangas 999 RRC vengi conquest eastern chalukya 1001 Sembian Madevi Demise 1003 Rattapadi conquest - chalukya 1007 RJC northern battles ( chalukya ) - hottur inscription 1008 Udagai battle RJC, RRC - against cheras 1010 Big temple completed 1012 RJC appointed co regent 1014 RJC crowned, Demise of RRC?? 1015 First chola ambassador reaches china 1016 demise of RRC?? 1017 first RJC mention in the Tanjore temple ( inscription) 1018 Rajadiraja appointed co regent, RJC srilanka campaign, RJC marches through pandya and chera country 1019 RJC Ganges Campaign 1020 Inscription in tanjore temple of RJC - bringing back the diadem ( pandya) 1021 RJC western chalukyan campaign 1025 srivijaya, kadaram, sumatra, malaysia naval campaign 1031-35 RJC western chalukyan campaign and battle of vengi/Kalidandi 1033 Second ambassador reaches china, last addition to list of conquests in inscriptions Inscription also reads he issued it from GKC 1035 GKC temple completed 1044 RJC demise
Hi you are right. both rrc and rjac must have been middle aged when they came to power.
but rjc's greatest conquests was when he was younger and a crown prince.
I guess you have to view the sovereigns achievements in regad to the environment. its like wimbledon.(if their was no seeding) the top two kings may have fought at the same time.
very true, most of the conquests though planned by rrc and rjc, they were executed by their brilliant generals.. btw can we compile a list of the key people who aided rrc and rjc in their campaigns
Beautiful work..excellant account of the chola/chalukya wars and the later day chola chalukya
as you read these, you are reminded of vengaiyin mainthan..
In the reign of Rajarajanarendra (1018-22-61 A.D.) the Chalukya-Chola rivalry in Vengi reached a high pitch. His accession to the throne was challenged by his step brother, Vjjayaditya (VII) who usurped the throne with the help of Jayasimha II, king of Kalyani. But his maternal uncle and the Chola emperor, Rajendra Chola, came to his rescue and after defeating the usurper and his Western Chalukya ally, reinstated Rajarajsnarendra in Vengi in 1022 A.D. and gave him his daughter Ammangadevi in marriage.
On the Eastern Chalukyan front, the Chola army ted by the general Soliyavarasan defeated Vijayaditya and his Kalinga and Odda supporters in several battles, took possession of the country on behalf of Rajaraja Narendra and proceeded afterwards on a grand military expedition to the Gangetic valley. To protect the rear of his army campaigning in the Gangetic valley, Rajendra Chola I had his sojourn on the banks of the Godavari, during which he enthroned his nephew Rajaraja Narendra as the ruler of Vengi and celebrated the latter's coronation on 16th August 1022 A.D. He even gave his daughter Ammangai in marriage to his nephew who had by her a son Rajendra named after him.
>>>>>>>>
at this juncture Rajaraja thought that it was in the best interests of the Cholas to see that the Eastern Chalukyas did not make common cause with their cousins in the west, for such a coalition would constitute a challenge to the rising Chola power. He decided befriend the weaker as against the The Eastern Chalukyas 103 stronger and create the traditional sphere of balance of power in South India. He took advantage of the situation when the sons of the Eastern Chalukya Danamava, being deprived of their parental kingdom by Jata Choda Bhima, sought his help. He espoused their cause and entered into matrimonial alliance with them. He gave his daughter Kundavai in marriage to Vimaladitya, the younger of the two princes and his was but a beginning of series of diplomatic marriages between these two dynasties. He invaded coastal Telugu country twice and in the second attempt in 1002-03 A.D., having slain Jata Choda Bhima in battle succeeded in establishing Darramava's elder son Saktivarma I firmly on the Vengi throne.
>>>>>>>>> some more excerpts
THE CHALUKYA-CHOLA CONFLICT IN VENGI Bhima invaded Kanchi region in 1001 A.D. This was probably in pursuance of the ambitious and imperialistic Chola army of Rajaraja I who espoused the cause of Danamava's sons, and having given his daughter in marriage to the younger of the two princes (Vimaladitya), invaded Vengi in 999-1000 A.D. to restore them to their ancestral throne. Bhima laid seize to Kanchi and captured it in 1001-2 A.D. But soon he was expelled from the Chola territory. Rajaraja I then invaded the coastal Telugu country again and having slain Bhima in battle established Saktivarma I, the elder son of Danamava, firmly in Vengi. However Vengi ceased to be an independent kingdom and became a protectorate of the Chola empire.
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But Chola Rajendra II killed Saktivarma and raised Rajarajanarendra's son, Rajendra to the throne and gave his daughter Madhurantaki in marriage to him. On the death of Virarajendra and the assassination of his son and successor Adhirajendra a few months later in 1070 A.D. in Tanjore, the Eastern Chalukya Rajendra, a descendant through his mother from Rajendra Chola I, went to Tanjore and ascended the Chola throne as Kulottunga I,
venkat wrote: > > > > > > perhaps came to power at 40 and ruled till 65. > > > > > > those days at that age you want to relax anf nor go for a war. > > the > > > fiery ambition so inhernt in princes
hi venkat
reminded of what is said about the prophecy related to sher e punjab, maharaja ranjit singh ( who donated the gold for the golden temple)..
The tenth Guru of Sikhism had ordered his Sikhs not to build any monument on the place where he Sikh ascended into heaven. ( Nanded, Maharashtra). Anyone who did built any monument on this place, would make his living male progeny and blood lineage die and extinct.Ranjit singh defied this and built a temple, Takht Sri Hazur Sahib. It was completed in 1839 and that same year Maharajah Ranjit Singh died. All of his sons, except Dalip Singh, died within 5 years of his death and the temple's completion. His only remaining infant son Maharajah Dulip Singh was made kingdom less as a child by the British, within 10 years of Maharajah Ranjit Singh's death. He died penniless, in a hotel room in Paris
also check this interesting post on the treasure of ranjit singh in a swiss bank vault
The book under review deals with an enduring legend about Talakad, near Mysore... The Curse of Talakad: (Re)situating and (Re) contextualizing a Legend in History, Sashi Sivaramakrishna, Rupa & Co, 2005, price not stated.
HISTORIANS like David Shulman caution us that legends and folklores should not be discounted as sources of information for history. And India abounds in such tales, which need to be interpreted. He points out that there is a distinction between reports that are meant to be factual and reports that are not considered factual. The book under review deals with one such source, an enduring legend about Talakad, near Mysore, known to historians as the headquarters of the Western Ganga dynasty.
The name Talakad conjures up images of sand dunes and medieval temples buried under the sand. In recent years, the site has been popularised by filmmakers. The earliest reference to Talakad occurs in an inscription of the Western Ganga monarch, Durvinita Kongini, who ruled in the 6th Century A.D. Later, the records of the Chola king Aditya I talk about Talakad being under Chola suzerainty. Emperor Rajaraja continued to rule over this area. In 1116 A.D., the Hoysala King, Vishnuvardhana defeated the Cholas and wrested control of the area. The sway of the later-day Gangas extended over parts of the present-day Tamil Nadu. The inscriptions in the Jain cave at Vallimalai near Vellore speak of the Ganga kings.
The origins
The legend which surrounds this place is of much later origin. In 1610, Tirumala II of Srirangapattana, a vassal of Vijayanagara empire, was overpowered by Raja Wodeyar of Mysore. Tirumala and his wife Alamelamma retreated to Malingi, a village near Talakad, on the banks of the Cauvery. She took with her the jewels she used to lend to the temple priest twice a week, to adorn the goddess in that temple. Wodeyar thought that the jewels belonged to the temple and ordered its confiscation. Alamelamma would rather die than part with the jewels. She collected the precious ornaments and drowned herself in Cauvery, but not before uttering three curses: "Let Talakad become sand. Let Malingi become a whirlpool. Let the Mysore king fail to beget heirs."
Around Talakad, there are sand dunes covering an area of nearly ten square kilometres. The river at Malingi is deep and treacherous and the Mysore kings have not had male heirs for the past many generations.
Sashi Sivaramakrishna, the author of this book, while making a documentary film on the curse of Talakad, began examining the historical and geological evidences to unravel the mystery of the legend and the result is this interesting little book. The author uses basically two sources to examine the Talakad legend. The first is the travelogue of Dr. Francis Buchanan, a surgeon who was appointed to carry out a survey for the East India company. He has left a fascinating account of the area, including a vivid description of Saravana Belgola. The second source is the Gazetteer of Mysore district by B.L. Rice.
Of recent origin
The author arrives at the conclusion that the story of the curses developed between Buchanan's travel, which was around 1800 and the time Rice wrote his Gazetteer which is 1879. A crucial evidence he points out is that of Gaurishankara temple, built in 1750. So it was only much later that the temple was covered by sand. It has been excavated by archaeologists recently. This would indicate that when the temple was built, about three hundred years ago, there were no sand dunes. So the story of the curse and the legend also must be of recent origin. The conclusion is that the legend was constructed long after Alamelamma died. However, about the third curse, of the Mysore kings not having heirs, the author is unable to come to a conclusion.
There is a useful bibliography, for those who want to pursue the topic. The photographs are of poor quality, particularly the black and white pictures. Nothing can be seen of the portrait sculpture of Alamelamma or Tirumala II.
on phropesies the new outer gopuram of thiruvanmiyur temple facing the valmiki nagar remains incomplete. 2 people including a media mogul who tried to complete it died. so there it remains a concrete skeleton. but of recent somebody has started. venketesh
> > on phropesies > the new outer gopuram of thiruvanmiyur temple facing the valmiki > nagar remains incomplete. > 2 people including a media mogul who tried to complete it died. so > there it remains a concrete skeleton. > but of recent somebody has started. > venketesh > Is there a prophecy for this...being my hometown, we have played cricket in the temple tank and practised our wall climbing on this tower skeleton
If my memory is right the Srirangam Gopuram was constructed sometime in 1987. But the atrocities started as early as 70s.
We do have family friends who left their home / property worth lakhs in those days / business and settled in Tamil Nadu. Actually I should say they were driven out of Sri Lanka. This happened in 1980 -1981.
So I don't see any correlation between building the tower and downfall of a kingdom / country.
Strange things, which we cannot reason out. But whats the connection between Srirangam and Srilanka?
Also, I have heard that if a Shiva temple is built, one of the key person involved in the construction will die. In early 90's we built a shiva temple in our area, in Madipakkam, and soon after its completion the chief stabathi died.
thats news. i always thought the legend was about usurping sivan kovil sothu...also something about being reborn as a bat and hanging upside down ( anyone see any bats in a vishnu temple for that matter??)
Actually the construction was started in 1983. Eventhough the ethnic problem in started in the 70's, the bloody riots in 1983 started the full fledged armed militancy there. Prabhakaran was a second rung leader then, but with assasination of the top leadership of LTTE like Kuttymani, he came into prominence in 1983.
Eventhough the samprokshanam for the rajagopuram was done in March 1987, it took more than 8 years to build. Of course, conception and plans to build it must have entered the mind of the 44th Ahobila Mutt Jeer much earlier. Of course any correlation can be proved only if the experiment can be repeated.
This was a subject discussed widely by Dr.Nalli Kuppusaami Chettiar when he attended my book releasing function at Vizag yesterday.
He said that his partner of Madurai Business, a Devaangu Chettiyaar happened to meet one Tiruchi SwamigaL at Bangalore some time back. The Swamiji, it seems told that partner that they had a 'KULA GURU' and one mutt but that was not operating for the past 170 years. And Swamiji offered one of his disciple as Guru and also told them to seek the permission from KRISHNADEVARAYA Vamsaadhipathi who are even now available at Hyderabad. The Partner went to Hyderabad and met those Raya based people. One such person of Krishna Deva Raya lineage is working at a Bank at Hyderabad.
I have sought some more details in clarity from Dr.Chettiyar and he promised to give me more on returning Chennai. It is quite interesting.
Chettiyar also asked me about any knowledge on Chola Vamsa Raja still anywhere living? I explained him about that PS group is on that course.
We can not predict the future. God knows, may be one fine day, one of our PS member may bring that man.
Another interesting news from Chettiyaar that he happened to meet some afgan like well built people in one of Governor's Tea-invite function. He enquired about them. They said that their elders belong to Samarkund in Afgan and during Aurangsib time, they had come marched here to Senji with an army to capture the fort. But the Senji Nawab, I think a clever man, by offering lot of wealth, kept them outside the fort for seven long years. These people also were sending Aurangasib some messages with some stories that they are on their job but with lot of restrictions. Finally these army stayed here itself.
Well, Chettiyaar has lot of interest in history and eager to know the actual happenings.
when the government wanted to take over the big temple at tanjore the serfoji kings who owned it went to court saying the bat droppings in the temple was a major source of their income and they needed to be compensated.
also heard of a types of temple buildings with roofs where bats cant get a hold.
Hi MOTTAI gopuram rahul or vk may be able to explain better being sons of the soil
The Madurai Meenakshi Sundareswar Temple has 12 gopurams in three corridors.but north mottai gopuram is a fully built gopuram without a roof. Built by Veerappa Naicker, grandson of Viswanatha Naicker in 1600 AD. Till recent years it was without a roof and therefore it was called mottai gopuram. During the end of the last century, the roof was provided in the 1880s by vaiynagaram nagappa chettiar family which did extensive thirupani there.'
one of the inner gopurams is called chinna mottai.
the unfinished gopuram at madurai is the Raya gopuram It lies to the east of Pudu mandapam. Measuring 200 by 120 feet, it is nearly twice the size of the base of the East gopuram. If it had been completed, it would have been one of the biggest gopurams in South India, the structure owes its origin to Thirumalai Naicker.
The monolithic pillars of Raya Gopuram are over 50 feet high and mark the high degree of proficiency of the Dravidian stonemasons. Its pavilion pillars, lion-based pilasters and the carvings on the jambs display a keen sense of ornamentation. There are many reliefs (pudaippu sirpam) of Thirmalai Naicker and his queens and a figure of Meenakshi's coronation on the wall structure.
The Meenatchi temple has a history of thousands of years. It was built and rebuilt by kings and wealthy people.
After the end of the Pandian dynasty, the Naickers and then the Chettiars have contributed to this temple so much.
AFAIK, there is no spell / curse on this unbuilt tower. It was abandoned, probably because of a war or a change in the dynasty / donar.
The unbuilt tower still stands there magnificiant, witnessing the challenges. Today it is a shelter to several retail stores there.
The present day Chettiar community can take up the task of completing it! Some major towers in this temple were built by Chettiars only... it is just a continuity of the task of their ancestors....
Someone from the venerable Chettiar community has only to initiate the project. Help and money will definitely pour in.
Lot of money was collected by the sponsors, who organised polling for making Meenakshi temple as one of the world wonders. Only the sponsors benefited.
The Chettiar community has done a lot in the past and still doing for temple related activities. A vibrant community.
karumuthu kannan who is the head of the board of trustees of the meenakshi temple is already doing a great job. the covering of the entire shrine of nataraja with silver was done under his leadership lets hope this also comes to his notice.
kalahasthi, thiruvidaimaruthur, a part of ekambareshwarar, thiruvadanai, thirukolakka were all rebuilt by one group of cousins.
another 120 temples were rebuilt by other nagarathar families.
the last of the major nagarathar kal thirupanis ended in the 1940s. I dont think they did any major work after that. now the major group involved is a group from coimbatore headed by Mr.Vasanthakumar.
Oru idea! How about uploading some important but big files in some external site or esnips and just placing the link in the link section? naraya edam save pannalaam.
Hi, feel we should first discuss the topics that are to be hosted and then edit each thread into a concise file. we could initially just do the topics list and then cut paste the threads into the file. Then some of us can take on the task of editing them into a logical, meaningfull file. we could also take up each such interesting files for discussion/dissectin later.