I remember you mentioning shroud of turin quite often. Last week I started Robin Cook's 'Seizure' and in the first few chapters itself there is a mention about it and its said that its not true and the shroud belongs to 13th century and not of that Jesus period. It has been proved by radio carbon dating that its only from 13th century. DO you have any comments on this? Whats the history behind the Shroud of Turin?
Just to make a general point, novelists tend to take liberity with facts. For example, Dan brown with Angels and Demons and Da vinci code. It is better to take fictional novels (especially the ones that are coming nowadays) with a question of doubt. All the facts need not be true and not all myths be fictional. I know by making such a generalized statement I am treading on dangerous track (Since some of the group members can apply the same arguement to Tamil fictional novels) but it is better to analyze rather than believe then as it is.
All the facts need not be true and not all myths be fictional.
I fully agree. Recently, Romila Thapar, the well know historian, said in a speech when confronted about AIT (Aryan Invasion Theory) that it is not possible to find solid evidence for every historical fact (???) The historian has to fill the gaps with his/her imagination. So historians are not very much different from novelists.
I am not able to locate the speech. It was published.
The wise way to is not to believe or disbelieve everything written, but to wait for more evidence to emerge. Sampath
the shroud of turin is much later than christ as proved by the national geographic.
you should have read the original article in NG. they even analysed the pollen grains on the shroud ( burial cloth) to prove it came from palestine. the pollen of plants that grow only in palestine were deposited on it. carbon dating seems to be the equivalent of our dna testing( NAAN AVAN ILLAI paathachaa?)
but frankly the relics of christ are not even accepted by most of christendom. for example there are so many excavated pieces of the true cross on which christ was executed that they all would out weigh a real cross several times over. but the legends persisit. for example the spear that was used to kill christ on the cross was beleived to be with hitler.
but one important thing
the first archeological expedition was about this
the Empress Helena, (c.255- c.330 AD), mother of Constantine, the first Christian Emperor of Rome, at a date after 312 AD when Christianity was legalised throughout the Empire, travelled to the Holy Land, founding churches and establishing relief agencies for the poor. It was at this time that she discovered the hiding place of three crosses used at the crucifixion of Jesus and the two thieves that were executed with him. By a miracle it was revealed which of the three was the True Cross. she also supposedly found the nails used for the crusifixtion and they were incorporated into constantines battle helmet.
may be a legend but still its the first legend of an archeological expedition.
at one point so many people started claiming they had some relic of christ that it almost became a joke
the best refuttal came from john calvin the 16th century(?) philosopher ( AFTER WHOM CALVIN OF THE CARTOON CALVIN AND HOBBES IS NAMED).By the end of the Middle Ages so many churches claimed to possess a piece of the True Cross, that John Calvin is famously said to have remarked that there was enough wood in them to fill a ship: "There is no abbey so poor as not to have a specimen. In some places there are large fragments, as at the Holy Chapel in Paris, at Poictiers, and at Rome, where a good-sized crucifix is said to have been made of it. In brief, if all the pieces that could be found were collected together, they would make a big ship-load. Yet the Gospel testifies that a single man was able to carry it." Calvin, Traité Des Reliques.
> Just to make a general point, novelists tend to take liberity with > facts. All the facts need not > be true and not all myths be fictional.
Hi Ragothaman
nice point. in ps kalki's master piece was ( according to many readers) the switching of the royal heirs. we saw him at his creative best. the real prince grows up in the flower garden as amuthan and the enemy's son grows up as the heir to the throne in the palace as mathuranthaka with sembiyan madevi. finally the truth is discovered and mathuranthaka runs away to his brethen in the forest. he later become amara bhujanga the contender to the pandya throne. wonderful piece of fiction where kalki rivals dumas penny for penny. but just last week sps put it on the group that in reality sembiyan madevi has dedicated a statue for amara bhujanga ( who in reality was the enemy)
why is fact getting mixed with fiction.? was there more fact in kalki's work than fiction. venketesh
Hi Venkatesh, As Kalki points out everytime, Sembiyan Madevi did not hate her "son", it was vice-versa, to some extent since he felt betrayed by her. Maybe it was out of love that she had a statue made for Amara Bhujanga.
I agree with you that there is more fact than fiction in Kalki's works. What we think as fiction may be a fact, until the Evidence comes out.
Recently, the remains of Jesus was discovered and announced to the world by Titanic director, James Cameroon, along with other people. Are the remains truly of Jesus? if so then bible was fiction. There is a very thin line that differntiates fact from fiction. Sometimes there is no evidence at all to prove something which is an open secret.
> > > > We will take the view of a former PM more seriously .. > > > . Whereas Vajapayee or PV, as they were held in high esteems can > not lie - just like that.
Please read "THE INSIDER" an auto biographical novel of pvn venketesh
> As Kalki points out everytime, Sembiyan Madevi did not hate her "son", > it was vice-versa, to some extent since he felt betrayed by her. Maybe > it was out of love that she had a statue made for Amara Bhujanga.
Hi Ragothaman kalki got you didnt he? that incredible man works miracles so that we mix fact and fiction
look at it this way
amara bhujanga never grew up in the chola palace. he is a fact.he is a pandya prince, s/o of veera pandyan mathuranthaka was always mathuranthaka( no palaiya mathuranthaka and puthiya mathuranthaka)that comes only in PS
the point being raised is what connection was there for sembiyan madevi and amara bhujanga in reality?? for in reality she has raised a statue for him
Thirupudaimarudhur is located in the Thirunelveli district, near Ambasamudram famous in the teleserial 'Annamalai' and anothe must see place is Thiruvaleeswaram located near the same place . One of the finest imperial Chola Temple one can hardly find outside the Chola Heartland.
I hav visited both Temples. A wonderful experience indeed
Prof. Neelakanda shastry has described this place intesetingly in his book on The History of South India .
He he, Yes I agree, I have been fooled very cleverly by Kalki. He has skillfully avoided that thought to come up in my mind while reading PS. I have no answer to your question.... :) Ragothaman