Kirumi Kanda Cholan
  • We have discussed a lot on this subject - Kirumi Kanda Cholan - and time and
    again have quoted that Kulothunga is NOT Kirumi kanda cholan.

    I read an article in yesterday (it was posted 2 months
    back) and found one intersting point, which I thought will share with the

    Refer this article..

    The article is about the Srirangam temple and also talks about 'Sri
    Vaishnava Sri's 'Koil Ozhugu'. The author has handled the subject very
    The most interesting part is the last paragraph of this article.

    "பிறகு ஸ்ரீவைஷ்ணவஸ்ரீ அவர்கள் பதிப்பித்திருக்கும் கோயிலொழுகின் முதல் இரண்டு
    பாகங்களைப் படித்தபோது, அதில் இந்தப் படையெடுப்பு மற்றும் பல சம்பவங்கள்
    தொடர்பான அனைத்து ஆதாரங்களும் தெளிவாக விளக்கப் பட்டிருந்தன. முத்துவீரப்ப
    நாயக்கன் காலத்தின் கிறிஸ்தவ மதமாற்ற முயற்சிகள் பற்றியும் பல செய்திகள்
    கிடைத்தன. ஸ்ரீராமானுஜர் வரலாற்றில் அவர் கர்நாடகத்திற்கு போக வேண்டிய
    நிர்பந்தம் குறித்து பல புகைமூட்டமான ஊகங்கள் உள்ளன. ராமானுஜரைத் தண்டிக்க
    அழைத்து வர ஆணையிட்டவனாக வைணவ குருபரம்பரை நூல்கள் குறிப்பிடும் *கிருமிகண்ட
    சோழன்* என்பவன் இரண்டாம் குலோத்துங்கன் அல்ல, *அவ்யபதேச்யன்* என்று
    குறிப்பிடப்படும் ஒரு குறுநில மன்னன் என்றும் அந்த நிகழ்வுகளின் பின்னுள்ள
    உள்நாட்டுக் கலகங்கள் பற்றியும் ஆதாரபூர்வமான செய்திகளை கோயிலொழுகு நூல்

    its quoted that this information is in the first two parts of the 'Koil
    do anyone have the book?

    if People can throw more light on this, it would be great.
  • Dear satish,

    The olgu and guruparaprabavam are supposedly the core works. Both are filled with glaring errors and need a critical review atleast from historic time line. I wrote about these in another form at length but was targeted for some abuse and hence left it at that!!

  • Vijay,
    I have more respect for traditional dates and events mainly because they
    are stable and are a "reference" while the rediscovered ones are
    interpretative evaluations from different sets of data and focus. New
    studies are always welcome so long as traditional versions are not
    vehemently denounced. You must revisit and restart.
  • dear Satish

    *அவ்யபதேச்யன் - means *பெயரிட்டுக் கூறவும் தகுதியற்றவன் - * one who is fit
    not even to name !!

    anyway, for good order sake - there are many specific references to the said
    King being a Chola in the Olugu and GuruParambarai - right from Mathiketta
    Cholan, Chola Kulam Nasikkum padi abichaaram etc.

    Coming to the Olugu - the glaring errors have been attempted to be corrected
    in the revised version recently edited by Srivaishnavasri. He also
    recommended that a similar effort should be done for the Guruparambarai as
    well. This you will find in the preface of his newly released edited Olugu.

    Some of the points you have to consider before we start this thread:

    Actual dates of Sri Ramanuja, Koorathalwar ( his vaibavam - 1000th year was
    celebrated last year - same year as big temple consecration !!), the King
    Bittideva / Vishnuvardhana who reigned in Melcote and supported Udayavar -
    his dates.

    Why i am saying this is, if you have time to read the Guruparamabarai - i
    will request you to read the about Sri Nathamunigal. He was the grandfather
    of Yamunacharayar who in his old age died with three fingers clenched just
    as Udayavar walked in. Long story but this is to just give you an idea of
    the period range. Now, the accepted date for Sri Nathamunigal is around 900
    CE to 950 CE, giving time for the 2 generations. Now comes the tricky part,
    as per the Guruparampara - Sri Nathamunigal was a resident of Gangai Konda
    Cholapuram. He saw the Chola King and queen going hunting in Gangai Konda
    cholapuram and mistook them for Rama and Sita and followed them. He could
    not catch up with them and finally died at the gates of Gangai Konda
    Cholapuram. Yes, in the Nathamunigal Vaibavam there are 3 specific
    references to the place as Gangai Konda Cholapuram. Now we need to brush up
    our history to see if time travel were possible for we all know when the
    title Gangai Kondan and Gandai Konda cholpuram were coined !.

    I know some of you will start jumping already, just read below


    *The Guruparamparai belongs to that type of chronicle known as hagiology. It
    records the history of a religious movement by tracing the list of its
    successive spiritual preceptors. Its usefulness for an attempt at
    reconstructing the history of Vaisnavism in South India cannot be
    exaggerated. To this type belong the Arayirappadi Guruparamparai of
    Pinbalagiya Perumal Jiyar, the Guruparamparai of the third Barahmatantra
    Swatantra Jiyar, the Divyasuricaritam and the Prapannamrtam of Anantarya,
    the first two being Tamil (Manipravalam) works and the next two Sanskrit.
    The Acaryasuktimuktavali by Namburi Kesavacarya, also called Vaduga Nambi or
    Andhrapurna, is a similar hagiology in Telugu. Of these the earliest is the
    Aryirappadi Guruparamparai whose author is, according to well-known Vaisnava
    tradition, assigned to the first half of the 13th century.

    If you take Koyil Olugu:

    The Period (life span only is only fixed) of Sri Ramanuja itself has
    oscillated between many dates. There are many contrasting accounts / dates
    for the Melcote visit. These are well documented and i dont claim to be the
    first to point about these. The most glaring mistake ( i term it as a
    mistake not inconsistency) - is the sequence of events - 1314 is an
    important year - a 6 month period which shook the foundation of ever major
    temple -

    *A perusal of the Koil-Olugu shows that the sequence of events adopted is
    jumbled, e.g., the period of the Acaryas is dealt with after the first
    Muslim attack on Srirangam. Certain events or names are repeated in a
    different context; this was perhaps because an accountant recorded certain
    past events in the diary without liquiring whether the same had been
    recorded or not by a predecessor of his. The jumbled sequence might have
    been due to the constant resuscitations of the original due to the
    vicissitudes of history and the imperfections and shortcomings of scribes. It
    is also possible that a scribe while making a copy made his own
    interpolations. The Olugu maintains a fairly correct sequence of events
    while dealing with the Vijayanagar period and after.*

    *With its many imperfections in sequence, chronology and language9 *

    *Fantastic usage of the english language and i hope the site is not pulled
    down or the author castigated for writing such.

    . இவர்கள் சுட்டும் `சோழன்` யார்? அவன் சிற்றரசனா? பேரரசனா?

    There are accounts of many Pandya's ruling at the same time concurrently,
    but with the cholas especially in the period that is ascertainable to this
    discussion - their regnal years are distinct including co ruler, reagent -
    rajakesari/para kesari etc. Below is the list of chola kings of that period.
    For a king to cause a great person like sri Ramanuja to leave the land, he
    cannot have been a citrarasan anyway!!

    Rajaraja Chola I 985–1014
    Rajendra Chola I 1012–1044
    Rajadhiraja Chola 1018–1054
    Rajendra Chola II 1051–1063
    Virarajendra Chola 1063–1070
    Athirajendra Chola 1067–1070
    Kulothunga Chola I 1070–1120
    Vikrama Chola 1118–1135
    Kulothunga Chola II 1133–1150
    Rajaraja Chola II 1146–1163
    Rajadhiraja Chola II 1163–1178
    Kulothunga Chola III 1178–1218
    Rajaraja Chola III 1216–1256

    Now, can we fill in the dates for Sri Ramanujar's lifetime starting with his
    date of birth, his stay in melcote with starting date.
  • Dear Vijay,

    Thanks for the detailed mail. I remember you sharing most of these details
    during our trip last year. We had a long debate on this in the van.. :)

    But the point I was trying to understand is....the article says,
    Srivaishnavasrhir has established with evidence that it is avyapdyesyan and
    not kulothunga.
    So was thrilled to read this and wanted to know what is the proof and who
    this avyapdyesyan was?

    what is there in Koil olugu about this is my curiosity..

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