It's nice that topics are flowing in all directions some hot some steamy!
Can I address a few points raised raised recently
For the record VJ has taken a sabbatical from his moderator duties...Venkat was thinking of the same due to other commitments...SPS is travelling
AS FAR AS I KNOW 26th MEETING is ON and I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU ALL.
Moderators reulate membership and very minimally the content!
there was a request for More Moderators! Its perfectly possible for ANY member to moderate others if they think the discussion or content is not going in a good direction...
We from time we have had to rarely moderate content
I hope this clarifies the Player is also a Umpire type comments
Venkat we cannot restrict posts ...unfortunately...
People can I remind everyone that this group has lumbered on with people joining and leaving for their own reasons including my brother who was very active....That is individual choice really isnt it...
Sri
If I can stop one heart from breaking,I shall not live in vain; If I can ease one life the aching,Or cool one pain, Or help one fainting robin, Into his nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson
I have been wondering to like so many others on where the forum is going and whether or not it makes sense to be part of it in an active manner. I don't believe i wil discontinue becuase as Satish said i have made many good friends here and want to stay in touch with them atleast - of course this is possible outside the forum too but the forum just makes it easier, that is all.
I want to share a few thoughts as a result of being part of this forum and having been a forum moderator myself on other forums.
1 Participants are not moderators - in other words to put it in your own language if all players become umpires there would be no game. It would be pertinent rather for each participant to take ownership of their own thread - regulate the discussion and summarize/close it when it reaches a logical point. A great example of this is what Ravi did recently on the thread on marriage and stopped at a point when it sounded like it was too long/off point or anything.
2 Please set clear rules on what topics are allowed and what are not, and if debates are allowed or not. A facts only forum is 100 percent fine - but again someone decides it is dull and 'sabai kalai katta' (Kathie that means to pick up spirit in group, roughly :) a debate is started, then most participants in true indian style let the more outspoken people carry on the debate, watch the fun and then protest when things get hot. You cannot boil milk without letting it boil and discussions will get hot by their very nature. Second, a library cannot be a rock concert. It is by nature a quiet, serious, academic place. So we can let a forum be a library if we want to and just not discuss much - members only post facts and counter facts. If we decide to have the occasional rock concert anyone who thinks so must know that it is a lot of hard work by way of moderation, that is all.
Lastly there is also a very mistaken notion around many that social or religious debates are a waste of time or lead to nowhere. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am all for saying our forum is not the place for that - but as an ancient quote says 'An unexamined life is not worth living' and really that is what it is.
n from VJ and Vairam. I am somewhat tired of one people thinking of social issues as a waste of time,(and social issues can never be delinked from history) - lastly, religious sentimetns not matching and leading to lot of heat, and yes as i said before people watching the fun when there is a debate and then obsessing about their sentiments being wounded as a result of others talking.
Thank you all for keeping up the forum. It is a hard job to please everyone and 100 percent credit to all of you for doing your very best in that regard.
I should at the out set tell you how much i appreciate your viewpoints, clarity and precise words you put your thoughts in.
but i think i should differ on these issues.
> Lastly there is also a very mistaken notion around many that social or religious debates are a waste of time or lead to nowhere. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am all for saying our forum is not the place for that - but as an ancient quote says 'An unexamined life is not worth living' and really that is what it is.
how much more and how much deeper can you examine hinduism. " the suffocated hindu syndrome" and "I am a better hindu than you " syndrome spoils the environment. discussions on hinduism should start with ' there are no ills with hinduism' platform. my dear friend sathish constantly finds fault with the moderators tha they are not allowing 'ills of christianity', 'ills of islam' debates.
i think there should be a blanket ban on discussing religious issues.it would be less fun but we could all concentrate on core issues. there are a hundred sites where one can spew venom on other religions, Ps group should not be one of them.
Venkat, I think there should be a 'blanket' on any issue not just religion - i am sorry did not clarify that better. We have a saying around my friends most of who are arya samajis or ramakrishna mutt affliates - we call 'Acquired Hindu Victim Syndrome' - always speaking like we are victims of somebody or something.
We cannot promote active discussions on other faiths for more reasons than one and i agree with you totally on that. Just to say it again the 'undie bomber' who was caught recently was found blogging with great interest under several pseudo names on well known sites.
The problem with religious discussions though is many fold - one religion is very linked with history, especially in our culture. So we cannot possibly say it is not a history discussion. Two the overwhelming majority of people seem to have strong sentiments towards their religion - in other words start a discussion to prove we are victims - and bring in strong sentiments to back that up.
I think it was funny someone posted a link about the issues with Avatar and the line of dialogue on 'How can you go against your own..' sorry i may not be accurate but something like that. The movie answers the question eloquently and an answer for all of us to consider when we bring up sentiments as a reason.
I respect any decision you take in this regard one hundred percent.
There is nothing wrong in discussiong Hindu religion. In fact i also feel that we also cannot talk other religions just like that and any critisism of any religion should be done by the people who follow the religion or who are born in that religion but oppose certain thing. ( though not following it) A positive analysis alone can be done on other religions.
But This thumb rule should be applicable to all. when some one tries to attack me and i have to be allowed to defend me.
But suddenly a person who dosenot know much about Hinduism and picking up a kural and trying to prove that this is not there , that is not there is just propaganda.
Hinduism allows discussion and that is its greatness. But also whwn some one suddenly writes as " widows tonsured" inspite of knowing very well that this practise was not there originally and the community got away with that and still wants some body else to write that " now we have got away with that" is only counterd.
Caste inequality waspractised by Hindus is a fact.It has to be eradicated is our duty.There is no second opinion on it.If a lay man says hindusONLY have it , then i can try to reason out to my best of knowledge. But learned members whohave read widely say that, then it is an issue.Do they not know thatit is practised by others in various forms and blame only hinduism is our question?
> There is nothing wrong in discussiong Hindu religion.
the group is called 'ponniyin selvan' and its incidental that there are a lot of references to hinduism in it. but kalki( ellorukkum engkeeyoo ketta peyar maathiri irukkaa?) never got deep into religion in ps though mentioning temple building, vaishnavite- saivaite rivalry.at least in ss there is lot more on buddhism and in parthiban kanavu on kapalikas. so the more we discuss religion and create ill will in this group the more we are going away from the topic of the group.
Hi Shankar, you can say i am the person who brought up the topic. Without saying too much it is somewhat of a generalisation to say 'it was not there originally' - how far back have you traced this 'originality'? Was there ever a time when any faith was truly free of all evils? When we say christianity has evangelism and thati s a problem you simply cannot argue that there were no evangelists during Jesus's time so it is not a christian evil. The problem was there at a certain period in time and is not there now is a pertinent answer for all of these questions.
I am stopping here for good. Whether or not we discuss religion is purely a moderator decision. My response to Dr Sri was intended for him or moderators so appreciate if you dont pick up and continue this thread.
Social and Religious topics can be discussed if any person who puts forward something provides some literature to support it.
Pointing out caste oppression was done by Hindus or false propagation is done by other religions are just topics people have their own opinion on.Having a debate on such issues will result in just arguing with both sides not able to convince each other. IF some one wants to post such topic please take efforts to read proper literature on that topic and give enough information on that topic to the readers.
The person who starts such topic shouldnt be casual or lazy. These are pretty serious topic and the member should take enough care that each letter he types has a reference in such topics.
Off late people dont even quote proper reference on the topic they start so that other members can know a back ground on it.
Other serious issue is people uttering their own opinion as fact in the group. FOr eg. that book was written by foreign scholar, he doesn't know anything about India. Just one line statement with no intention to tell us why such statement is passed on a scholar. Members have to understand that any statement you utter is recorded and I dont know how many members know that Ponnyinselvan.in comes up in very large number in google search results. So what ever u type might be used as reference by some casual internet user.
Every member should take responsibility of what he is writing. SO please post messages/topics which are controversial or might spark uproar with enough proof. Instead of sending 10 diff mails in a day the member can research on the topic and post that good post for that day.
This is forum where ppl wait to get some information. They are ready to take up any new information from history of sambar and masala dosai to history of Cholas. So please members take care to give new information , at the same time take responsibility to post messages with reference.
Religion and history are strongly intertwined, to identify a history without a religious backing would be talking just hero worship.
We will only be dealing with the 'how' & 'where' aspect, the 'why' which is probably most important to make a stronger future is critical. 'Why' is very speculative as we were not witness to the incident, its same as discussing AK's murder.
Logical thought is needed to eliminate blunders in history. Many a time, you cannot conclude with an actual translation of any literature too.
I for one, will not blindly accept both religion and anatomy as long as there are exceptions that find a way acting against physics.
Statements such as 'love thy enemy', 'salamidai poo vin naduvinil veeru thani malai mevu perumale' would be a nail on the head for just history or literal translation alone.
I do not oppose any statements as long as its either informative or humorous.
In my 3 years in this forum, i have learnt a lot, I am sure i will more.
Every one is entitled to their views, I do believe there are two sides of the same coin. Keep an open mind and write as much. My humble thought is, just because some one has spent so many years in research on something, it does not mean that they are always correct.