New testament, Buddhist Literature, Jataka tales and CLT Theory.
  • Hi All,
    I had happened to be reading Ancient India by R.C.Majumdar, around the same time this email was sent to the group. The following contents will be off-topic or deviating from the general interest of the group, but it will provide us a whole new way of looking at things that people profess evangically. Added to the I would recommend R.C. Majumdar as a must read to understand the hinduism's growth as a religion and from a history point of view.
    Christian literature borrows heavily from the buddhist's literature. This is the view that many historians hold.
    Reproducingexcerpts from the book "Ancient India" by R.C.Majumdar dealing from the pre-historic times till 1200AD. First edition came in the year 1952. Refer to Page No . 188 This section gives us an idea of how the christian thought itself is modelled on the Buddhists thought line and the Buddhists church model.
    Buddhist Literature, A World Literature:
    Buddhist literature rose to the rank o a world literature. It was studied all over Asia, and many of its legends, fables and anecdotes found their way into Europe. Nay it is even surmised by many, that the Christian gospels, and particularly the story of Christ's life, were profoundly influenced by the Buddhist canon. Rudolf Seydel, who has gone more deeply into this branch of study than any other scholar, has pointed out a close agreement between a larger number of Buddhist and Christian legends, parables and max indebted to a large extent to the Buddhist Literature. Laer scholars have disputed this theory, but have not been able to demolish it altogether. There is, however no doubt that the Apocrypha, which originated in the second and third century AD and is admitted by the Roman catholics inot the Old Testament, borrowed largely from the Buddhist literature.
    Barlaam and Josaphat
    The influence of Buddhism and Buddhist literature in euroope at a later date is most conspicuously illustrated by the "Barlaam and Josaphat", "one of the most widely spread religious romances of the middle ages, relating the conversion of the Indian prince Josaphat by the hermit Barlaam, his subsequent resistance to all forms of temptation, and his becoming a hermit. The whole story is 'nothing more or less than a christienised version of the legendary history of Buddha agreeing with it in all essentials and many details'. The romance was originally composed in the Pehlevi language about the sixth or the seventh century A.D. and translated in Arabic and Syriacat a later date. The syrian version was translated into Greek, and the Greek version was translated into many European languages. The book exists in Latin, French, Hebrew, Ethiopian, Italian, Spanish, German, English, Swedish, Dutch, Armenian, Russian and Rumanian versions, and was even translated
    as early as 1204AD into Icelandic. It is also interesting to note that by the fourteenth century AD, Barlaam and Josphat were recognised as saints by the Holy Pope. Prof. Max Mueller has pointed out how Gautama, the buddhar under the name of St.Josaphat, is at the present day officially recognised and honoured thoroughout the Catholic christendom as a Saint of the church of christ.
    Footnote: Josaphat is written in Arabic as Yudasatf which is simply a corruption of Bodhisat, the arabic letter y and b being often confused with each other. Barlaam is probably to be traced to "Bhagvan".
    The Christian Lindtner Theory (CLT) of the Buddhist Origins ofthe New Testament Gospels
    http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/thundy.html
    http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/CLT.html
    http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=122937
    CLT theory has detailed material on how the New testament seems to be like an inspired gospel broadly and majorly on the lines of the Buddhist literature.
    I wonder how these people would react to such a link.
  • News to me. Thanks.

    I have heard that the bible is updated every few years (or every 100
    years not sure) to make it relevant to the current social norms, to
    give a feeling that though written 2000 years back, it is still
    relevant. Even recently I read an article stating that in Kerala a new
    version of bible is being published with reference to veda's and
    upanishads, to project that Bible has all that is available in Veda's
    and upanishads (or maybe to project that veda's were derived from
    bible??).

    I really appreciate the missionaries who fool people continuously and
    influence them.

    சிலரை பல நாள் ஏமாற்றலாம், பலரை சில நாள் ஏமாற்றலாம்,

    but these people have been doing this continuously for 2000 years and
    I cant resist appreciating them.
  • Yes that is true Satish, these evangelists are pala naal palarai ematrum jaadhi. Quite unbelieveable tenacity. There are very strong historical and other research evidence that suggests Jesus actually learnt with the Buddha, there are gaps in his life unaccounted for and many historians beleive during that time he came to India and learnt ahimsa and related concepts from Gautama Buddha.
  • Hi Malathi,

    > There are very strong historical and
    > other research evidence that suggests Jesus actually learnt with the Buddha,

    Do you mean to say Jesus and Buddha are from the same era?? or just
    embraced the ideals of Buddha from India?
  • Sorry Siva, i meant embraced the ideals of Buddha. There was a german scientist/ historian named Holger Kirsten who researched this and concluded that Jesus actually died in Kashmir, there is even a tomb there. This research contracts the crucifixtion theory upon which chruches were built and make lot of money so it is not popular. I will post more of Kirsten's work if I find it.
  • I believe a few threads ago we spoke about many budha's.

    If we are in specific to Gautama, here is what i think.

    For Jesus to have learnt from Gautama buddha, it would have been
    impossible if we were to believe Gautama was not more than 200 years
    old (considering Ashoka was 250 BC etc) and Jesus was only alive for
    32 - 34 years...

    Enamo engayo kanakku idikkuthu... illai evano semmaya gapsa vittu
    oorai (west) emathirukkan... :-)
  • >
    > Coming to his learnings - the lifespan of christ, between his 12 and
    > 29 years is not recorded and no one knows what he did during those
    > years.

    Hi,

    Look for a book called the aquarian gospel of christ

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aquarian_Gospel_of_Jesus_the_Christ
    http://home.netcom.com/~mokeeffe/AquarianGospelSinglePage.htm

    You will be quite surprise to read the references to india in this
    work.
  • I think Malathi is referring to this book... The book's name is Jesus lived in India, by Holger Kersten
    The book is based on the finding and travel logs of Russian historian named Nicolai Notovich
    Its a book, having the quotes form the new testament, and missing years of Jesus from the Bible.
    We can get Jesus's history till age 8, and later it shifts directly to the age 40 or so. and it also tries to address, what happened to Jesus after he was crucified....It claims he was alive and was brought back to India, as Kashmir was the promised land of Jews....Its quite interesting !!
    I think the book should be available with Land mark, asI picked up a copy of that book from the same shop few years before

    Fine... on a lighter note..Try typing in Sam Anderson in Youtube. You will be flooded with videos, you will catch your stomach, roll and laugh for one the standard of the movie, and second what it tries to convey. Its where the movie promotes " endha siluvai ungalia kapatrum" and I think it should have been fundedby some Christian missionary.

    rgs
  • There are very striking similarties between christ's teachings on non violence and the Buddha's. I will post more on that and also the 'proof' that he actually learnt Buddhism later.
     
  • Nithya, yes the name of the book I read is the 'Original Jesus' by Kirsten in which he explains the missing years as travel to India. The astonishing similarities between Buddhism and Christianity and the fact that Christianity came after Buddhism is the most common reason why it is thought that Jesus might have studied Buddhism. Mirza Ghulam Mohammed, a rather controversial progressive muslim prophet talks of 'Mettayya buddha' and 'Bhagwa Mettaya' in Buddhist literature to refer to Jesus - Mettaya is close to Messiah and Bhagwa is fair skinned Buddha (Jesus may have been fair skinned compared to others in India).

    The fundamental basis is the similarity between Buddhism and Christianity, so radical and so startling that it is very difficult to ignore. There must have been some truth to this. For those interested below are some links.
    http://www.heartlandsangha.org/parallel-sayings.html
    http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/courtyard/1652/BuddhaChrist.html

    Malathi
  • Very true Malathi,
    Whenwe take the Old Testament, we can find the God to be very hard, for that matter taking eye for an eye, and asking people to follow very strict rules such asSabbath.
    The lord for in fact punishes people, if the rules are not being followed, we can find various instances in Old Testament, where God is very serious, strict, and angry. And I don't understand, why would God be partial and always favouring People of Israel, Killing the all the First Born of Egypt, including the King Ramse’s son.

    But in the New Testament, it is jus the reverse. The God or the Son of God, asks people forgive, and show another cheek if at all anybody slaps you. Askpeople to Love, and says God is you Father, and he will forgive, once you ask for Forgiveness. Why a sudden change in approach, when did all the people in the world became important. The same has such a strong reference to Buddhism as it also sermonize, Endure Pain. I wonder how the Jesus of Nazareth, who was himself a Jew, was able to preach love to people. I would very well say that unless a strong Guru or strong influence, this might have not happened.
    rgs
  • > Barlaam & Josaphat have been removed from 'Lives of the Saints'

    > That story of the canonization of Lord Buddha is a kick.
    >

    > You may also be interested to know that several very popular Roman
    > Catholic saints had to be removed from the book because it was
    > proven that they had



    never existed!
    Among them were the beloved St. Christopher & St. Valentine.
    I was raised Protestant Christian, and the Presbyterian/
    Congregationalist
    denominations did NOT teach us to look down on other paths to God, as
    far as I remember. They didn't emphasize reverence for saints at all.

    There are many many Christian denominations & sects,
    as different from each other as are Keralan Nimboodris, from Kasmiri
    Pandits.
    About the Bible, Roman Catholics have one of them, not covering
    the Old Testament which they pretty much ignore; other Protestants keep
    retranslating parts of that long book from the original Greek, Aramaic
    & Hebrew,
    trying to create a version accurate as possible to the original.
    Fundamentalist sects take every word literally, which
    leads to some really ridiculous attitudes. Just please don't think
    of Christians as one great uniform block.
    Kathie B.
    p s Jesus couldn't have studied at Buddha's knee -- he lived more
    than 500 years later. But it is said that he spent his years not
    reported in
    the Bible, ages c 20-30, in India.
    His main new 'thrust' in doctrine was: compassion, perhaps learned from
    Buddhism?
  • Dear Kathie, I agree with you that there are several types of christians and some very liberal people too. I have had the good fortune of being friends with many who are very liberal and I have a healthy respect for the basics of the religion and Jesus as a prophet.
     
    The money power and persuasive tactics of evangelist churches are not something to be writeen away easily though - they aer far from innocent people with a bunch of ridiculous beliefs. It has been proven that the Bush goverment has pumped enormous sums of $ into such organisations and their power is felt pretty well.
     
    Malathi
  • Hi,
    I've been away for ten days, just catching up. WOW, such
    a wealth of info . . .
    about Jesus. He lived to be 32 only. His tomb in Kashmir
    is under the name: Isa.
    Anyone know exactly where it is?
    Kathie
    >
    >

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