But still.... it cannot be just muslims against hindus....the hindu population should be much larger....consolidating muslims cannot be the only reason.....there should be much more to it...I am not able to understand.
Even a dog if chased and cornered,will try to turn and bark....but Indians...that too tamils??? I cant understand...inspite of talking all about veeram vilancha mannu etc....absurd..
My intention is not to stir a controversy now...my main question is regarding the bravery of Indians, especially Tamils...
I am not talking about post Babur..gun powder was the deciding factor..but atlesat till then....that too the only country which used elephants as war machines...loosing to minorities from outside??
Indians were so brave that no one is second to none...constantly fighting amongst themselves to showcase their bravery....split into smaller territories and due to the ego clash lost the cooperation and paved way for foreign invasion .... for turks it was easy to defeat smaller armies with means unknown to Indians (adharmic way of fighting... fighting after dark, fighting weaponless soldier etc)..
At least this sounds logical to me and i think we have enough proof for this theory....Pandyas inviting Malik to defeat their own brother...
Vijay, thank you once again, great summary!! I was just reading the Forbes list of world millionares, how many are from India, and consider the poverty we have in the country!!
Don't mean to deviate from Satish's subject though. Could you say more on Kattabomman (movie versus history), perhaps another thread?
> Don't mean to deviate from Satish's subject though. > Could you say more on Kattabomman (movie versus > history), perhaps another thread?
Hi Malathi there were one or 2 superb threads on movies kattabomman and sivagangai seemai. will check the archieves and post. how kannadasan beleived that kattabomman was not great enough and financed the movie on maruthu pandyars to be release simultaneously. the conviction cost him his entire assets as he movie bommbed. varalakshmi - kannadasan sister inlaw was the only person to star in both.
Reading thru these messages, i am not sure what exactly is bravery...
As in purananuru - mother searching for her son in the battlefield looking for the wound in chest - is the son brave? He had the nerve and he was fearless and had the guts to face death which is probably the boldest gesture by any one and something that is not achievable by many.
But is that being brave?
I believe being brave is to accomplish the path of justice in the time of darkness. Being dead wont count as success in the path. The true brave person is a hero, fights a battle with the mind and does not lose it. The hero, takes time to plan and strategically conquers the task. He may lose the battle but end up winning the war. Hero's do not quit.
Will those who have ran away from the battle field but come back to win wars counted as brave or cowards ?
When smart guys run for the moment , the bards sing praise of the ruler calling him the brave, when the scene reverses , the same bards glorify the return.
They claim to be the descendants of the Pallavas and hence known as Kadavas. The relationship of the Kadavas to the main line of the Pallavas is revealed by an inscription found in the Vaikuntha Perumal Temple in Conjeevaram ( South Indian Inscriptions Vol. 4, No.135)
the Pallavas who were descended from Bhimavarman, the brother of Simha Vishnu are called the Kadavas.The Pallava King HiranyaVarman is stated to have belonged to the Kadava Kula. Nandivarman Pallavamalla is praised as "one who was born to raise the prestige of the Kadava family"
The Kadavarayars whether Pallavas or not belong to the Palli clan (Now Vanniyar caste).In many inscriptions they mention themselves as "Pallis".
The known genealogy of the Kadavarayars:(read from an inscription found on the second gopura (right of entrance) of the Vriddhagirisvara temple in Vridachalam in South Arcot district. (A.R. No. 74 of 1918)
1.Valandanar alias kadavarayar
2.Atkoliiyar alias Kadavarayar
3. A. Elisaimogan Kadavarayar
B. Arasanarayanan Kachchiyarayar ----- 4. Alapirandan Virasekharan alias Kadavarayan (1186 AD)
5.Manavalaperumal 6.Kopperunjinga 1
Some Sambuvaraya chiefs also adopted the titles of Kopperunjinga like Alappirandan,Alagiya Siyan,Siyan Pallavandan which seem to suggest an affinity between these families.Kadavarayars were also mentioned as Sambu Kula Kadava.
An inscription at Srimushnam in South Arcot District: Registers remission of padikaval and other levies due to the donor from the devadana lands, for worship to the god at Tirumuttam in Vilandai-kurram, a subdivision of Merka-nadu Irungolappadi in Virudarajabhayankara-valanadu by Alappirandan Elisaimogan alias Kulottungasolak-Kadavarayan, a Palli having the kani-right in Urumur alias Solapandya-chaturvedimangalam alias Erumbur, for the merit of himself and his family.(record no.232 of 1900 archelogical records)
Its said that the Kadavarayar rule came to an end in 1279 AD. What happened next?
Its said that nothing was clealry known.But its easier to track the descendants of the Kadavarayars.Their descendants started ruling small territories.We get inscriptional evidences for the rule of their descendants. Please check the name of the king no 3 B - Arasanarayanan kachchirayar. Some kadava rulers were also known as Kachchirayars.
about " Parur udayar thevar Kachchirayar pillaigalil kalathirinathar"
Also from an inscription of Maravarman Sundara Pandyan (1360 AD) we come across "Irungolappaadi Naatu Paruvurudayan therayarayan pon Vazhanginaan magan Katti thevanaana Sundara Pandiya Kachchirayan"(The Sambuvaraya who was ruling at this period was Rajanarayana Sambuvarayan) (Archaelogical Record 457 of 1921, 89 of 1918) These Kachchirayars were the descendants of the kadava rulers.Their descendants are present even today.
I really missed this posting.. Grateful to you for having drawn my attention. Very nice of you Dear.
At the back of mind, it should have occured to me "This is pet subject of Venkat ". Also did not co-relate any posting from Vijay either on this subject ..
I will leisurely go through the details, ponder and express my view.
On the outset, I am thankful for furnishing Primary sources - like inscriptions.
Pallava Clan / Pallis - I remember to have read on "disagreement" on certain views by certain scholars..
Primarily Pallavas hail from Bharadhwaj Gothram - Ref Dr. Nalini's articles in Varalaaru. Inscriptions quoted from Kailasanathar Temple, Kanchi.
They are classified as a mixed race of BRAHMA-KSHATRIYAS !
I will go through Dr. Ma.Raasamanickanar's Pallvar varalaru also and revert later.
That apart, the " HIRANYA VARMAN " - has FIRST CONSTRUCTED the CHIDAMBARAM TEMPLE. Vijay can refer THILLAI by B. Natarajan s/o Historian SRB and confirm.
He hesitates to identify him as Pallava to begin with !
> > That apart, the " HIRANYA VARMAN " - has FIRST CONSTRUCTED the > CHIDAMBARAM TEMPLE. Vijay can refer THILLAI by B. Natarajan s/o > Historian SRB and confirm. > > He hesitates to identify him as Pallava to begin with ! >
Hi,
combining several references to come with this post.... am a bit confused on the tiger standard at the end - wasnt the pallava one the bull initially which later got converted to the lion.
This is what major books and works talk of about thillai - its not written with any leanings but just present data as they have been captured.
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Throughout all of eternity Lord Vishnu, the preserver, rests on Shesha, the Cosmic Snake, in Vaikuntha. Once his weight suddenly seemed to have greatly increased. Shesha asked Vishnu "why are you so much heavier, Lord?" The Lord answered "I have had a vision of Shiva dancing his Cosmic Dance. I have expanded with happiness at the sight." Shesha requested Vishnu to tell him all about Shiva's Dance. And Lord Preserver told him everything.
In the forest called Daruvanna live a community of Rishis or Seers in a hermitage. Through the performance of rituals they had achieved great knowledge and power, but they had not realized the importance of Divine Grace. Shiva requested Vishnu to accompany him to enlighten the Rishis, by showing them human power and knowledge were helpless without Divine Grace. To accomplish this purpose the two deities applied their power of Maya or Illusion.Shiva entered the hermitage of the Rishis as Bhikshatana or Mendicant. With dazzling beauty, wearing only a mendicant's sandals or padukai, the wives and daughters of the Rishis fell madly in love with him, forgetting everything else, and completely loosing themselves. ( There are some amazingly explicit sculptures of this episode in kudimiyanmalai - as well as in kanchi)
Vishnu transformed himself into a beautiful woman called Mohini, and an alluring dancer. As soon as the Rishis saw Mohini dance before them, they too lost all sense and rationality and with desire burning in their hearts they followed Mohini around like madmen. ( again sculptures in kanchi abound)
When some of the Rishis realized what was happening they became enraged and started a great magical fire sacrifice against Shiva- Bhikshatana. First they called from the fire tiger, but when it attacked Lord Shiva he laughed, and killed the ferocious animal with his hands, tearing off its skin and wearing it for a loincloth. Next the Rishis send poisonous snakes, which he draped around his arms and neck, as jewelry. Then Shiva prepared to perform his Cosmic Dance. His two other arms appeared and his third eye shone in his forehead. The Rishis called a fierce dwarf from their magical fire, but Shiva's dancing foot simply took him for a pedestal and danced. Finally the Rishis send the fire itself to destroy the Cosmic Dancer, but he just took it on to his left hand. And from the mantras that the Rishis used against him he made his anklets. Then the Lord danced his Tandava or Cosmic Dance.
Its full power made the Rishis fall to the ground. It made Vishnu shake, and even Parvati, the goddess consort of Shiva, who joined them to witness her husbands dance, was overcome with fear. But the Lord danced smiling, showing his raised foot. The Rishis understood the Lord's Divine Grace, and attained realization. They started to dance themselves and all of creation danced with them.
After Vishnu has told Shesha about his vision of Shiva's Cosmic Dance, Shesha longs for only one thing: to see Shiva's dance himself. Vishnu grants him permission to leave him for a while, so Shesha too will be able to experience Shiva's dance.
After Shesha performed austerities for long ages, Shiva appeared before him, and offers him the fulfillment of any wish. Shesha has only one wish: to witness Shiva's Tandava.
Once meditating on his dance vishnu's body doubled in weight and sesha his support, had his body squeezed sesha drank the wine of what had happened from the lotus of vishnu's mouth and practising very severe penance reached his holy place via the tunnel mouth of the silver mountain and witnessed the dance in the sabha..
In fulfillment of Shesha's wish, Shiva announced to him that he will dance at the appropriate and tangible moment on earth in the Sabha in the Tillai forest. This forest is situated on the middle point of the earth, and constituted its heart centre, the Lotus Space. Through it passes the main energy nadi, or vein, of our mother planet. This place is called Cit Ambara, the Ether of Consciousness. Shiva told that he, Shesha, would be born on earth from human parents, and that he would be called Patanjali. After growing up he will travel to Tillai, where he will meet another saint, called Vyagrapada the Tigerfooted. And both will perform tapas and worship, until the appointed time for Shiva to perform his Cosmic Dance in the Sabha has arrived.
All these things foretold by Shiva to Shesha come to pass. As Patanjali reached the Tillai forest he found on the southern bank of the lotus pond the saint Vyagrapada, worshipping the Mulasthana Linga and performing austerities. Vyagrapada had come to the Tillai forest following the advice of his father, the Rishi Madhyandina. To worship the Mulasthana Linga he used to gather flowers in the early morning, but however early he collected the flowers, insects had already damaged them. Deeply upset that his worship was not as complete or perfect as he aimed for, he cried to Lord Shiva to help him. In answer to his prayer Shiva gave him tiger claws for hand and feet, enabling him to find his way through the thick forest at night to gather flowers long before daybreak, before the insects could inflict their damage.
once madhyadhana's son, worshipping shiva's excellant linga obtained by his grace the paws of a tiger through his compassion he was able to bring to his son the ocean of milk and feed him on it and he beheld in the hall his supreme dance
together, as they waited for the appointed time for Shiva to dance in the Sabha. As that time approached also the 3000 munivars (later called Deekshithars) arrived in the forest to await the Lord's dance.
When that day arrived, it was announced with the sound